Please help me correctly interpret the verses ISIS uses in the Hadiths and the Koran

[loverofhumanity]

A belief which does not have any proof, does not have any value.

Good luck!

People today say that about all religions. But we know Muhammad was true and so was Christ and Moses and we believe Baha'u'llah is also.

Freedom of belief is essential if the world is to have peace.

 

[mojtaba]

People today say that about all religions. But we know Muhammad was true and so was Christ and Moses and we believe Baha'u'llah is also.
Freedom of belief is essential if the world is to have peace.

I did not mean we should force people to believe in what we believe in.

I only meant that a belief which is not based on the evidences and proofs, do not have any value. We should know that why we believe in so and so matters.

Good luck!

 

[loverofhumanity]

I did not mean we should force people to believe in what we believe in.

I only meant that a belief which is not based on the evidences and proofs, do not have any value. We should know that why we believe in so and so matters.

Good luck!

It's relative to each person. What is truth for one person is falsehood for another so we each must decide for ourselves.

We may both agree on Christ and Muhammad and thenQuran so we have some things in common.

 

[mojtaba]

It's relative to each person. What is truth for one person is falsehood for another so we each must decide for ourselves.

We may both agree on Christ and Muhammad and then Quran so we have some things in common.

There are evidences for finding the truth by the reason. Reason and intellect, and also the evidences are invariant. They are not relative to each person. So, every one should use them to find the truth.

For example, Abdul Baha said, 'If religion causes killing and savagery it is not religion and having no religion is better than that.' ( See, `Abd al-Hamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Payām-i malakūt, pp. 44–45. )

But, see the order of Bab, your promised person. Baha'ullah claimed that he( Baha'ullah ) is the promised Prophet of the book of Bab, i.e. Bayan,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.' (See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 2, p. 266 )

Also Baha'ullah himself has ordered Baha'is to be certain torment for non-Baha'is,

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist means non-Baha'i ].'
(See, Baha'ullah, Majmu-e-Alvah-e-Mobarakeh, p. 216.)

Could you elaborate these clear contradictions?

 

[loverofhumanity]

There are evidences for finding the truth by the reason. Reason and intellect, and also the evidences are invariant. They are not relative to each person. So, every one should use them to find the truth.

For example, Abdul Baha said, 'If religion causes killing and savagery it is not religion and having no religion is better than that.' ( See, `Abd al-Hamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Payām-i malakūt, pp. 44–45. )

But, see the order of Bab, your promised person. Baha'ullah claimed that he( Baha'ullah ) is the promised Prophet of the book of Bab, i.e. Bayan,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.' (See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 2, p. 266 )

Also Baha'ullah himself has ordered Baha'is to be certain torment for non-Baha'is,

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist means non-Baha'i ].'
(See, Baha'ullah, Majmu-e-Alvah-e-Mobarakeh, p. 216.)

Could you elaborate these clear contradictions?

There is no contradiction as these are not the official Baha'i Writings.

 

[loverofhumanity]

According to the authentic Hadiths, 'those well grounded in knowledge' are Prophet Muhammad and his 12 Successors of Ahlul Bayt( peace be upon all of them ). I do not see Baha'ullah in the Hadiths of infallibles, who are indeed the Ar-Raseekhoona fil Ilm( those well grounded in knowledge ).


Baha'ullah claimed that for himself. What is his proof?

According to the Hadiths, the inner meaning of the verse is for Imam Mahdi( peace be upon him ). Indeed, according to the inner meaning of the verse, 'the light of guidance which is from God' is Imam Mahdi(peace be upon him). I do not see Baha'ullah in Quran or authentic Hadiths.

Bahaullah's proof is the same as that of Muhammad. His Person and His Book.

 

[loverofhumanity]

A belief which does not have any proof, does not have any value.

Good luck!

Many believed in Muhammad just through the purity of their hearts as the Quran was revealed over a 23 year period.

Bahaullah's Words and Person are His proof as was Prophet Muhammad.

 

[mojtaba]

There is no contradiction as these are not the official Baha'i Writings.

You are liar or ignorant. I want to think that you are ignorant, because I do not like to call you liar.

1.Abdul Baha said, 'If religion causes killing and savagery it is not religion and having no religion is better than that.'

اگر دین سبب قتال و درندگی شود آن دین نیست و بیدینی بهتر از آن است​

(See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/o/KBAS1/kbas1-216.html#pg216)

2.But, see the order of Bab, your promised person. Baha'ullah claimed that himself( Baha'ullah ) is the promised Prophet of the book of Bab, i.e. Bayan,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of Hadhrat A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.'

در یوم ظهور حضرت اعلی منطوق بیان ضرب اعناق و حرق كتب و اوراق و هدم بقاع و قتل عام الّا من آمن و صدّق بود​

( See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/ab/MA2/ma2-266.html#pg266 )

3.Also Baha'ullah himself has ordered Baha'is to be certain torment for non-Baha'is,

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist means non-Baha'i ].'

انتم يا احباء الله كونوا سحاب الفضل لمن آمن بالله و آياته و عذاب المحتوم لمن كفر بالله و امره و كان من المشركين​

(See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MR/mr-217.html#pg216)

Now elaborate the contradictions, please.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You are liar or ignorant. I want to think that you are ignorant, because I do not like to call you liar.

1.Abdul Baha said, 'If religion causes killing and savagery it is not religion and having no religion is better than that.'

اگر دین سبب قتال و درندگی شود آن دین نیست و بیدینی بهتر از آن است​

(See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/o/KBAS1/kbas1-216.html#pg216)

2.But, see the order of Bab, your promised person. Baha'ullah claimed that himself( Baha'ullah ) is the promised Prophet of the book of Bab, i.e. Bayan,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of Hadhrat A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.'

در یوم ظهور حضرت اعلی منطوق بیان ضرب اعناق و حرق كتب و اوراق و هدم بقاع و قتل عام الّا من آمن و صدّق بود​

( See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/ab/MA2/ma2-266.html#pg266 )

3.Also Baha'ullah himself has ordered Baha'is to be certain torment for non-Baha'is,

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist means non-Baha'i ].'

انتم يا احباء الله كونوا سحاب الفضل لمن آمن بالله و آياته و عذاب المحتوم لمن كفر بالله و امره و كان من المشركين​

(See, http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MR/mr-217.html#pg216)

Now elaborate the contradictions, please.

Dear Mojtaba, and Everyone


These are the authentic Teachings of the Bahai'i Faith. I refute your false attacks on the Blessed Persons of the Bab and Baha'u'llah with just a few of these Gems of Guidance They have bestowed upon humanity to promote unity and love in our world. These Words are a reflection of Who They truly are and what They truly stand for and I defend Them unconditionally and take God and Prophet Muhammad as my witness. These are the Two Trumpet Blasts of the Holy Quran and attacks on Them are attacks on the Holy Quran and a grave mistake.

In the Kitab-i-'Ahd (Book of the Covenant), Bahá'u'lláh says:

"Conflict and contention are categorically forbidden in His Book. This is a decree of God in this Most Great Revelation. It is divinely preserved from annulment and is invested by Him with the splendour of His confirmation. Verily He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise."

"He that wisheth to promote the Cause of the one true God, let him promote it through his pen and tongue, rather than have recourse to sword or violence. (Gleanings of the Writings of Baha'u'llah CLIV)

"Ye have been forbidden in the Book of God to engage in contention and conflict, to strike another, or to commit similar acts whereby hearts and souls may be saddened.”

Excerpt From: Bahá'u'lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.”

“It is Our wish and desire that every one of you may become a source of all goodness unto men, and an example of uprightness to mankind. Beware lest ye prefer yourselves above your neighbors”

Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

“Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship”

Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh.”

“The path to guidance is one of love and compassion, not of force and coercion."

Excerpt From: Báb, The. “Selections from the Writings of the Báb.”

“Let them at all times concern themselves with doing a kindly thing for one of their fellows, offering to someone love, consideration, thoughtful help. Let them see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate, the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no lines.”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.”

“Think ye at all times of rendering some service to every member of the human race. Pay ye no heed to aversion and rejection, to disdain, hostility, injustice: act ye in the opposite way. Be ye sincerely kind, not in appearance only. Let each one of God's loved ones centre his attention on this: to be the Lord's mercy to man; to be the Lord's grace. Let him do some good to every person whose path he crosseth, and be of some benefit to him”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.”

 

[YmirGF]

Exactly. People need to follow rational thought, their heart, compassion, and the Golden rule rather than let an outdated primitive text make their decision for them.

It doesn't help when a given scripture and highly regarded texts have holes big enough to fly a 767 through.... jus' sayin'....

 

[Britedream]

The Qur'an is a good piece of evidence of why so, but hardly unusual in that regard.

It will help you to realize the comparison between the Abrahamic religions in this regards, the lecture of rabbi Firestone, in his academic lecture, titled " introduction to Islam for Jews", in youtube.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Pope if isis was real islam and all muslims followed what isis believes. Dont u think isis would be now 1billion strong? And not 60.000 strong???



Dont u think that by now all christians and jews would have been subjected to the sword? Meaning, utter destruction and genocide???

Dont u think that Ottomans would never had saved Jews??? Or the Ummayads treatment of christians and jews would have been different?

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

so everyone knows Islam is a Religion of peace, and I truly want to believe that, just having difficulty interpreting these verses and would appreciate if you would help me put them in their peaceful context. It could be that they are just symbolic of an inner struggle that we must fight to overcome sin.

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, “Kill any Jew who falls under your power.” Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad’s men because he insulted Islam.

Tabari 9:69 “Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us” The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Ibn Ishaq: 327 – “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992 – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.” Muhammad’s instructions to his men

Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.


Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-” It appears this passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims.

Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…”

Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”


Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

Quran (8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.

Quran (8:65) – “O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight…”

Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

Quran (9:14) – “Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace…” Once again, the way Allah wishes to punnish them is by "your hands".

Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”


Quran (33:60-62) – “If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.

Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.” This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered “merciless” and “horrible murder” in other translations)

Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,” Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle."

Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost

Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) – Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

Bukhari (52:256) – The Prophet… was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, “They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans).” In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.

Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

Abu Dawud (14:2526) – The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, “There is no god but Allah” and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight"

Abu Dawud (14:2527) – The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent (Necessary responsibility) on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) – the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) – Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Muslim (1:149) – “Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause…”

from the hadith of sahih bukhari (2)
Volume 1, #234
Narrated Abu Qilaba:
He (Muhammed) then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them."

Okay, so, please keep this a politically correct thread and don't say anything that would indicate that Islam isn't a Religion of peace, because it has been proven that it is a peaceful Religion.

It is okay to debate what the verses mean, just please do it in a way that makes Islam look positive. It is important to discuss these verses because when I want to explain the benefits of Islam and that it is a Religion of peace, I keep getting stumped on these verses.

Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was as peaceful and Charitable as Mother Teresa of Calcutta, so I'm sure his intentions were never that people should take these verses literally. Perhaps they are symbolic, parables, poetry, hyperbole or they were peaceful until they were translated from Arabic? Thanks for your help and please let's keep this politically Correct and within the forum rules! Pax Tecum!

All killing in the name of God
happens as a result of people having more children than can be sustained.
Having too many children is: infidelity.

 

[Spiderman]

Pope if isis was real islam and all muslims followed what isis believes. Dont u think isis would be now 1billion strong? And not 60.000 strong???



Dont u think that by now all christians and jews would have been subjected to the sword? Meaning, utter destruction and genocide???

Dont u think that Ottomans would never had saved Jews??? Or the Ummayads treatment of christians and jews would have been different?

No, all Christians and Jews would not be subject to the sword because the nations that are predominantly Christian and Jewish have far better militaries ( that all Muslims combined could not defeat.)

All the Arab nations ganged up on the tiny country of Israel with the intention of wiping them off the map and "casting them into the sea ". Arabs severely outnumbered them and were armed with modern weapons from the Soviet Union yet they lost the war with more than 20 Arabs dying for every 1 Israeli.

If all Arab Nations combined can't defeat a small nation like Israel, how could all Muslims combined ever defeat America or Europe?

Also, sometimes Muslims remain peaceful with non-Muslims until they make up a majority and then start committing violence and jihad (such as what happened in Lebanon.)

A lot of people might want to force women to be covered , outlaw free -speech, and institute Sharia in America and Europe, but they know it is not possible, so they don't even try. If they could do it, we would see different behavior.

If they thought they could actually win a jihad, get control, and institute those policies , many would.

Do most muslims want to commit violence and opress non-Muslims? I highly doubt it.

We in America all know Islam is a Religion of peace, because Hillary, Obama, and nearly all our politicians tell it is.

But what if Islam was a Religion of intolerance and war. Would that mean most muslims would be violent? No it would not.

Here is a perfect example. Jesus says we are supposed to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, not judge, not condemn, forgive all offenses , not hate, and not lust.

There are two billion Christians in the world and I'd bet not 1% of them follow those rules.

Likewise, Muhammad personally cut off many heads, but most muslims will not follow his example there , because it goes against their conscience , and cutting off heads naturally seems gross and inhumane to a lot of people.

People often follow their conscience and naturally inclinations over the founder of their Religion.

Most Christians don't live like Jesus lived. most muslims don't live like Muhammed lived. most Buddhists don't live like Buddha lived.

So you can't say a Religion stands for something based on how the majority of the people who claim that Religion behave.

 

[loverofhumanity]

All killing in the name of God
happens as a result of people having more children than can be sustained.
Having too many children is: infidelity.

Leaving out certain verses like Sura 2:190 is distorting the truth. The only authority in Islam is the Quran, not Hadiths or scholars but It's like Christians who follow Bible scholars and commentaries instead of reading the bible for themselves.

2:190 Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors.

The Quran teaches to return good for evil...

13:22

and who are patient, seeking the Face of their Lord, perform the prayer, and spend from that which We have provided them, secretly and openly, and who repel evil with good. For them there shall be the reward of the Abode

41:34

Not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel evil by that which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity will become as though he was a devoted friend,”

28:54

Those will be given their reward twice for what they patiently endured and they repel evil with good, and they spend from what We have provided them.

3:134

"They are those who spend in charity during ease and hardship and who restrain their anger and pardon the people, for Allah loves those who are good"


Killing, murder and terrorism is forbidden by the Quran and Islam and the only thing ever is permitted is self- defense under exceptional circumstances.

For the true spirit of what Islam stands for also read the Covenants of Muhammad with the Christians. Here are some excerpts:

"If a Muslim takes a Christian woman as a wife, he must respect her Christian beliefs. He will give her freedom to listen to her [clerical] superiors as she desires and to follow the path of her own religion. Whoever, despite this order, forces his wife to act contrary to her religion in any aspect whatsoever he will have broken the alliance of Allah and will enter into open rebellion against the pact of His Messenger and Allah will count him among the impostors. If the Christians approach you seeking the help and assistance of the Muslims in order to repair their churches and their convents or to arrange matters pertaining to their affairs and religion, these must help and support them. However, they must not do so with the aim of receiving any reward. On the contrary, they should do so to restore that religion, out of faithfulness to the pact of the Messenger of Allah, by pure donation, and as a meritorious act before Allah and His Messenger."

How truly beautiful and in contrast to the lies and distortions spread by ill wishers and the ignorant!!

And again.....

"No Christian will be made Muslim by force: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better [29: 46]. They must be covered by the wing of mercy. Repel every harm that could reach them wherever they may find themselves and in any country in which they are." (Covenants of Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of His time)

The Sinai Monastery stands today. Muhamnad made a Pact with them also.

Read this instead of all the lies and poison. He even exempted Christians from taxes. Islam is not Isis.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad

"No one is allowed to plunder these Christians, or destroy or spoil any of their churches, or houses of worship, or take any of the things contained within these houses and bring it to the houses of Islam. And he who takes away anything therefrom, will be one who has corrupted the oath of God, and, in truth, disobeyed His Messenger."

How different from Isis who are nothing but assassins and war criminals and not true Muslims at all.

http://www.sinaimonastery.com/en/index.php?lid=68#

Islam is a beautiful religion and Muslims are amongst the nicest, most hospitable and courteous people one can find.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

No, all Christians and Jews would not be subject to the sword because the nations that are predominantly Christian and Jewish have far better militaries ( that all Muslims combined could not defeat.)

All the Arab nations ganged up on the tiny country of Israel with the intention of wiping them off the map and "casting them into the sea ". Arabs severely outnumbered them and were armed with modern weapons from the Soviet Union yet they lost the war with more than 20 Arabs dying for every 1 Israeli.

If all Arab Nations combined can't defeat a small nation like Israel, how could all Muslims combined ever defeat America or Europe?

Also, sometimes Muslims remain peaceful with non-Muslims until they make up a majority and then start committing violence and jihad (such as what happened in Lebanon.)

A lot of people might want to force women to be covered , outlaw free -speech, and institute Sharia in America and Europe, but they know it is not possible, so they don't even try. If they could do it, we would see different behavior.

If they thought they could actually win a jihad, get control, and institute those policies , many would.

Do most muslims want to commit violence and opress non-Muslims? I highly doubt it.

We in America all know Islam is a Religion of peace, because Hillary, Obama, and nearly all our politicians tell it is.

But what if Islam was a Religion of intolerance and war. Would that mean most muslims would be violent? No it would not.

Here is a perfect example. Jesus says we are supposed to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, not judge, not condemn, forgive all offenses , not hate, and not lust.

There are two billion Christians in the world and I'd bet not 1% of them follow those rules.

Likewise, Muhammad personally cut off many heads, but most muslims will not follow his example there , because it goes against their conscience , and cutting off heads naturally seems gross and inhumane to a lot of people.

People often follow their conscience and naturally inclinations over the founder of their Religion.

Most Christians don't live like Jesus lived. most muslims don't live like Muhammed lived. most Buddhists don't live like Buddha lived.

So you can't say a Religion stands for something based on how the majority of the people who claim that Religion behave.

Iam 100% convinced if the arab countries at that time were united under one leader and they implemented the law of Allah fully and they enjoined the good and forbade the evil then Allah swt would give them victory Insha Allah even when Israel uses nukes as last option and when the west uses nukes it as last option, it wont stop them.

The reality is that they were far removed from the law of Allah and the obedience of Allah!
They betrayed the Ottomans by siding with the enemies.

Then how can they expect victory???

 

[Augustus]

The reality is that they were far removed from the law of Allah and the obedience of Allah!
They betrayed the Ottomans by siding with the enemies.

Then how can they expect victory???

The Ottomans weren't exactly the most loyal of subjects when they stole the crown back in the day and enacted laws that showed a definite lack of obedience to Allah.

Why should they expect victory?

What goes around, comes around...

 

[Spiderman]

Iam 100% convinced if the arab countries at that time were united under one leader and they implemented the law of Allah fully and they enjoined the good and forbade the evil then Allah swt would give them victory Insha Allah even when Israel uses nukes as last option and when the west uses nukes it as last option, it wont stop them.

The reality is that they were far removed from the law of Allah and the obedience of Allah!
They betrayed the Ottomans by siding with the enemies.

Then how can they expect victory???

If they had sided with the Ottomans, Allah would have doomed them to destruction using the British Empire as his instrument of wrath.

I suppose you don't believe in the Armenian Genocide?

If the Arabs had sided with the Ottoman Empire, the Axis still wouldn't have done much better.

 

[Mickdrew]

Yes...it is very sad so many people take these verses to be literal and apply them to our 21st century

The problem is.... and I am loath to quote this....
"But that's not how people read Holy Books. They don't go 'Well that was good for then'. People read Holy Books and say 'This is the Word of God, it's forever!'"

 

[Spiderman]

The problem is.... and I am loath to quote this....
"But that's not how people read Holy Books. They don't go 'Well that was good for then'. People read Holy Books and say 'This is the Word of God, it's forever!'"

It's disgusting...they need to follow reason and their conscience over a text written thousands of years ago in another language, addressed to an ancient culture, and as was the case of the Old Testament, only for Ancient Israel, not for Gentiles.