Please look to understand Islam isn't so bad.

[Theweirdtophat]

I've made threads like this but I thought I'd shed some light. There's bad Muslims, like bad Buddhists, Christians, Pagans ect. and you're going to find good and bad in almost every group. People say that Muslims don't condemn terrorism but that's not true.

Norway's Muslims Form Protective Human Ring Around Oslo's Synagogue

There are some that not only condemn it openly and also fight against it. The United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, ect, all Muslims majority countries have been actively fighting against Boko Haram and ISIS, two Islamic terrorist groups. If that's not enough proof that they condemn it, I don't know what is. Most Muslims don't do terrorist activities. Most people in GENERAL don't do this. It is strange because some people will say "Muslims don't condemn Islamic terrorism!" so loud, they can't hear the Muslims that ARE condemning it.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. (A good rule, but does it apply to Muslims, too?) 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. (Does this apply only during Ramadan?) 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. (It's not true, but it's a nice thought.) 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

 

[Breathe]

You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

Unfortunately, many do and support such actions in the name of "progress" and "making amends". They'll even extend this to people collectively. A shared, collective guilt based on religious, ethnic, racial, sex, gender, or other lines. Things beyond people's control. A scary thing, really.

Unfortunately many people see it as one bad apple spoils the bunch. The 'us' versus 'them' mindset never helps anyone. Unless people want less cohesion and understanding.

But yeah, the OP was an interesting one.

 

[jeager106]

Well it''s really comforting to know that all muslims ain't bad.
I never thought they were.
It's the 15% of 1.6 BILLION that are violent that concerns me.
I have a muslim aquaintance, a lady from Palestine, who is very good to me and gives me answers to questions
about Islam.
She's an honest, hard working, lady with the same feelings as any other human on the planet.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Unfortunately, many do and support such actions in the name of "progress" and "making amends". They'll even extend this to people collectively. A shared, collective guilt based on religious, ethnic, racial, sex, gender, or other lines. Things beyond people's control. A scary thing, really.

Unfortunately many people see it as one bad apple spoils the bunch. The 'us' versus 'them' mindset never helps anyone. Unless people want less cohesion and understanding.

But yeah, the OP was an interesting one.

Thanks. I don't know why think that because what their ancestors did, their descendants must pay. This kind of logic just extends more hatred towards each other. The ones responsible have already paid. Don't harm the descendants.

 

[jeager106]

On the other hand..........................April 22 thru 27 of 2015. Lastest contributions by the religion of peace. (6 days worth)

2015.04.27 (Mekran, Pakistan) - Three Shiites are shot to death by Sunnis while waiting for a bus.
2015.04.26 (Noor-ul-Huda, Afghanistan) - A cleric who opposed violent extremism is quickly dispatched by fundamentalist bombers.
2015.04.24 (Alingar, Afghanistan) - Four women are among five family members wiped out by a Taliban rocket.
2015.04.24 (Jamame, Somalia) - A man is executed by an Islamist firing squad for 'insulting Allah'.
2015.04.23 (Balad, Iraq) - Sunnis liquidate eight Shiite pilgrims with a car bomb.
2015.04.22 (Khashrod, Afghanistan) - Four children and their parents fall victim to Sunni fundamentalist bombers.

Can anyone please explain to me why Sunni murder Shi'ite????

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

I just don't understand all the violence, all the time, everywhere, in every place.

 

[leibowde84]

I've made threads like this but I thought I'd shed some light. There's bad Muslims, like bad Buddhists, Christians, Pagans ect. and you're going to find good and bad in almost every group. People say that Muslims don't condemn terrorism but that's not true.

Norway's Muslims Form Protective Human Ring Around Oslo's Synagogue

There are some that not only condemn it openly and also fight against it. The United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, ect, all Muslims majority countries have been actively fighting against Boko Haram and ISIS, two Islamic terrorist groups. If that's not enough proof that they condemn it, I don't know what is. Most Muslims don't do terrorist activities. Most people in GENERAL don't do this. It is strange because some people will say "Muslims don't condemn Islamic terrorism!" so loud, they can't hear the Muslims that ARE condemning it.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. (A good rule, but does it apply to Muslims, too?) 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. (Does this apply only during Ramadan?) 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. (It's not true, but it's a nice thought.) 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

I agree with your argument, but there is one key factor that you left out ... essential in how westerners see Islam. After the CH cartoonists were killed, there were some who expressed disgust over the cartoons even though innocent people had been murdered. In a situation like that, the West will look to Muslims to disregard drawings and focus all "disgust" on the barbaric actions of murders who killed in the name of their religion. That was one aspect of that horrible mess that I couldn't get my head around. What are your thoughts?

 

[leibowde84]

I've made threads like this but I thought I'd shed some light. There's bad Muslims, like bad Buddhists, Christians, Pagans ect. and you're going to find good and bad in almost every group. People say that Muslims don't condemn terrorism but that's not true.

Norway's Muslims Form Protective Human Ring Around Oslo's Synagogue

There are some that not only condemn it openly and also fight against it. The United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Nigeria, Chad, ect, all Muslims majority countries have been actively fighting against Boko Haram and ISIS, two Islamic terrorist groups. If that's not enough proof that they condemn it, I don't know what is. Most Muslims don't do terrorist activities. Most people in GENERAL don't do this. It is strange because some people will say "Muslims don't condemn Islamic terrorism!" so loud, they can't hear the Muslims that ARE condemning it.

People will try to justify hating it due to the Quran because there's some bad stuff in it. Yeah, like there isn't messed up stuff in the Torah, New Testament? Even some Hindu and Dharmic scriptures have messed up stuff in it. Those books have both good and bad stuff in it. They will say that Muslims should be punished for what their ancestors did, but that's not good either. You don't punish people for what their ancestors did.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

"Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam.

"There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]"

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. (A good rule, but does it apply to Muslims, too?) 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. (Does this apply only during Ramadan?) 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"Make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to ... making peace among mankind." 2:224
"If the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease." 2:280
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. (It's not true, but it's a nice thought.) 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
Pay the poor-due. 23:4
Repel evil with that which is better. 23:96
Pay the poor-due. 24:37, 24:56
"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom."
Allah encourages you to set your slaves free if they are good enough. And don't pimp out your slave-girls (concubines). 24:33
Repel evil with good. 28:54
Be kind to your parents. 29:8
Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 30:21
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 30:38
Pay the poor-due. 31:4
"Be modest in thy bearing and subdue thy voice." 31:19
"Speak words straight to the point."
Say what you mean; mean what you say. 33:70
Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 41:34
Be loving and kind to your relatives. 42:23
It is wrong to oppress people. 42:42
Live peacefully with disbelievers. 43:88-89
Be kind to your parents. 46:15
Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 49:11-12
Give of your wealth to help the poor. 51:19
"A guess can never take the place of the truth." 53:28
Pay the poor-due. 58:13
Pay the poor-due. 73:20
Don't defraud. 83:1-3
Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 90:13-17
Don't oppress orphans or drive away beggars. 93:9-10
Pay the poor-due. That is true religion. 98:5
Let each person believe (or disbelieve) whatever he or she wishes. 109:1, 6

How can you explain the following quote from the Quran. It seems purely evil to me, but I am all ears if you can provide me with an explanation (instead of just copping out and showing how other religions have stupid passages in scripture as well). No disrespect, but I'm tired of Muslims clinging to this idea that other religions have problems too. I agree, but that has nothing to do with my question.

 

[xkatz]

I wonder how Islamic societies would treat self-proclaimed Druids...?

(Hint: NOT kindly)

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I wonder how Islamic societies would treat self-proclaimed Druids...?

(Hint: NOT kindly)

Are you implying that all Muslims will treat them harshly? Aside from the fact that not all Muslims are the same, there's multiple branches of Islam and not all Muslim countries are the same. Not all Muslims have the same beliefs, customs and rules. Muslims in Egypt and Saudi Arabia will not be the same as the Muslims in Kazakhstan and Malaysia. I probably won't be treated so well in Egypt and Saudi Arabia especially but Kazakhstan and Malyasia are more lenient towards different faiths. United Arab Emirates are more lenient, too.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Are you implying that all Muslims will treat them harshly? Aside from the fact that not all Muslims are the same, there's multiple branches of Islam and not all Muslim countries are the same. Not all Muslims have the same beliefs, customs and rules. Muslims in Egypt and Saudi Arabia will not be the same as the Muslims in Kazakhstan and Malaysia. I probably won't be treated so well in Egypt and Saudi Arabia especially but Kazakhstan and Malyasia are more lenient towards different faiths. United Arab Emirates are more lenient, too.

This simply isn't true. Malayan Muslims discriminate against non Muslims: look at the destruction of Malay Bibles because they used the word Allah. In Indonesia, Druidism is not on the list of accepted religions. Even in the Lebanon, pagans have to keep their faith secret.

I get very tired of this endless apologising for Islam. For every tolerant remark in the Quran, you can find another intolerant one. This goes right back to the beginning, when Muhammad turned up at Mecca with an army and demanded they convert, the choice was conversion or war. Yes, most Muslims are good, but that is because most people are good; the good Muslims are good in spite of their religion, not because of it.

 

[xkatz]

Are you implying that all Muslims will treat them harshly? Aside from the fact that not all Muslims are the same, there's multiple branches of Islam and not all Muslim countries are the same. Not all Muslims have the same beliefs, customs and rules. Muslims in Egypt and Saudi Arabia will not be the same as the Muslims in Kazakhstan and Malaysia. I probably won't be treated so well in Egypt and Saudi Arabia especially but Kazakhstan and Malyasia are more lenient towards different faiths. United Arab Emirates are more lenient, too.

It is certainly true that their differences between people in any faith (ie good and bad apples). However, I think it is more imperative to judge a faith by its doctrines, praxis, and the societies it creates. Even in the most lenient Islamic countries there are almost no practitioners of polytheistic religion; and as DavidMcCann pointed out Muslims largely control and dictate the laws and customs of Malaysian society (to the point where all ethnic Malays are legally Muslim, even if its against their will). Even in these societies freedom of religion, speech is limited by Islamic rule. Also Kazakhstan is largely an exception because it is secular due to its Soviet past. By and large, most Islamic societies are discriminatory in nature because of their basis in Islamic teaching (esp when dealing with non-Muslims).

 

[Theweirdtophat]

This simply isn't true. Malayan Muslims discriminate against non Muslims: look at the destruction of Malay Bibles because they used the word Allah. In Indonesia, Druidism is not on the list of accepted religions. Even in the Lebanon, pagans have to keep their faith secret.

I get very tired of this endless apologising for Islam. For every tolerant remark in the Quran, you can find another intolerant one. This goes right back to the beginning, when Muhammad turned up at Mecca with an army and demanded they convert, the choice was conversion or war. Yes, most Muslims are good, but that is because most people are good; the good Muslims are good in spite of their religion, not because of it.

Islam is the state religion but they do have freedom of religion over there. At least 60% of it is Muslim so there's quite a few that aren't Muslim and they all don't face discrimination. Malyasia isn't as discriminating as you might think. So Druidism technically is a protected religion according to their legal texts.

Not all of Islam was spread by the sword. There was a lot of times where the country heard of it and adopted Islam and it's customs and weren't forced to convert. Again, some have to look and see what Muhammad was fighting for and who he was fighting. The Arab Pagans were one of them, and they were being oppressed by the Arab Pagans at the time.

Also to answer xkatz there's a sizable minority of Hindus in Malyasia as well as the United Arab Emirates, so there's some polytheistic worshippers or ones that don't worship a deity per se, like Buddhism.

 

[xkatz]

So Druidism technically is a protected religion according to their legal texts.

Could you elaborate? Give evidence?

Also to answer xkatz there's a sizable minority of Hindus in Malyasia as well as the United Arab Emirates, so there's some polytheistic worshippers or ones that don't worship a deity per se, like Buddhism.

In the case of Malaysia and Indonesia, the reason Hinduism is tolerated is because Hinduism is regarded by those countries as being monotheistic (which you could actually make an argument for from a theological perspective). In the case of Indonesia especially, it took years for the national government to accept Hinduism as a protected religion. In Malaysia still Hinduism and its practitioners face discrimination- there are laws in place that make building temples a difficult process, as well as the fact that ethnic Malays cannot legally become Hindu.

And in the case of the UAE, the Hindu population is largely undocumented workers from Nepal and India who have their passports confiscated and are forced to work in horrible conditions for next to nothing in pay (ie: modern slavery).

 

[Kirran]

Islam is the state religion but they do have freedom of religion over there. At least 60% of it is Muslim so there's quite a few that aren't Muslim and they all don't face discrimination. Malyasia isn't as discriminating as you might think. So Druidism technically is a protected religion according to their legal texts.

Not all of Islam was spread by the sword. There was a lot of times where the country heard of it and adopted Islam and it's customs and weren't forced to convert. Again, some have to look and see what Muhammad was fighting for and who he was fighting. The Arab Pagans were one of them, and they were being oppressed by the Arab Pagans at the time.

Also to answer xkatz there's a sizable minority of Hindus in Malyasia as well as the United Arab Emirates, so there's some polytheistic worshippers or ones that don't worship a deity per se, like Buddhism.

I have quite a few connections with Malaysia, so I'd like to address this.

I think that Malaysia is probably one of the the most democratic, secular and peaceful Muslim majority countries on the planet. But, sadly, this doesn't say much. Sodomy is illegal there, they have rampant corruption, there are separate legal systems for Muslims and non-Muslims, the government defines the 'Malay' ethnicity as constituting the practice of Malay culture, the speaking of the Malay language and the belief in Islam (and goes on to give massive amounts of benefits to the Malays over other ethnicities in education, in employment etc), enforces shariah law on all Muslims, irregardless of whether they want it or agree with a different form of Islamic jurisprudence and are very very reluctant about allowing apostasy from Islam.

 

[leibowde84]

I have quite a few connections with Malaysia, so I'd like to address this.

I think that Malaysia is probably one of the the most democratic, secular and peaceful Muslim majority countries on the planet. But, sadly, this doesn't say much. Sodomy is illegal there, they have rampant corruption, there are separate legal systems for Muslims and non-Muslims, the government defines the 'Malay' ethnicity as constituting the practice of Malay culture, the speaking of the Malay language and the belief in Islam (and goes on to give massive amounts of benefits to the Malays over other ethnicities in education, in employment etc), enforces shariah law on all Muslims, irregardless of whether they want it or agree with a different form of Islamic jurisprudence and are very very reluctant about allowing apostasy from Islam.

Thanks for this. Very enlightening. I've got to say, I'm surprised by this. I never thought of Malaysia's Islamic Government as being so unjust. I mean, seperate courts for Muslims and non-Muslims?!

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for this. Very enlightening. I've got to say, I'm surprised by this. I never thought of Malaysia's Islamic Government as being so unjust. I mean, seperate courts for Muslims and non-Muslims?!

I don't know if you're being sarcastic!

But yeah, they have that.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic!

But yeah, they have that.

I am not. As a lawyer, I cannot fathom how justice could come from a legal system where your religious identity entitles you to different treatment under the law. It's ludicrous.

 

[xkatz]

@Kirran
Does the different treatment apply mainly to religious matters (conversion, marriage, death, religious rules+education), or does this apply to secular matters as well?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Malaysia is definitely far from perfect, but they've had corruption problems for a while. Take Islam out, and you'd still see corruption there. The United Arab Emirates is supposed to be more lenient, however they don't like it if people proselytize a religion other than Islam.

I'm obviously not Muslim or anything but I defend those I think have been wrongfully mistreated. Like Wiccans where some people still think they worship the devil by practicing magic, even though most of them worship two main deities, neither of which really look or act like the devil and besides just about every religion has practiced magic, rituals, energy work, spells, ect.

Burma is well known for mistreating non Buddhists and it's of course a Buddhist majority country but no one talks about that. No one bashes Buddhists for that. It just seems odd to me.

 

[Kirran]

@Kirran
Does the different treatment apply mainly to religious matters (conversion, marriage, death, religious rules+education), or does this apply to secular matters as well?

I have four friends from Malaysia here in university in the UK. One is Chinese, three are Malay. The Malays are here because an agency provided them with a scholarship. The Chinese guy is here because his family managed to pay for it.

In Malaysia, 50.1% of the population is Malay. 99% of the police force is Malay.