Political Christian Morality

[kjw47]

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful." -Jeff Sessions

"I can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law. That is actually repeated a number of times throughout the Bible,” she said. “It’s a moral policy to follow and enforce the law.”-Sarah Huckabee Sanders

I implore @Sunstone @Faithofchristian and others to watch the following video starting @ 6:50 in relation to this thread, but if you want, I encourage you all to see the whole video especially from the part where you can hear the children crying.

I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?

Men say its a Christian nation--actions have proved the exact opposite, those who listen to those men have lost already.
Yes God allows the govts of men, he advised not to break the laws so they will have no reason to imprision one. Yet he clearly shows--everyone of those govts are CORRUPT-2Peter 2:19)-- and the bible clearly shows at Rev 16--everyone of those govts and its armies and supporters will stand in opposition to Gods king--they do now as well, a very big part of the world that Jesus taught his followers to be no part of.( voting)


Did those illegal aliens break the law? Yes--then they deserve the outcome. Its their fault--1) they do not listen to God. He warned them not to break the laws.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Of course, the BIG difference of those out of context clips is that those children were travelling alone. Most were young teens.
This administration is separating children who travel with their families.

BUT it is ok for the Christian Right to be nasty because that horrible President Obama and the woman who never got elected said something similar but no where near as bad.

Is it any wonder that Christianity is declining in the US when you justify abhorrent practices with videos of people not involved. Shame on you.

You know, before you go bad mouthing,
It was your liberal democrat President Bill Clinton back in 1997 that pass the illegal immigrants law
The law you liberal democrats are now complaining about.
The law that President Trump is enforcing.
So before you go complaining, complain to your liberal democrats leaders that pass the illegal immigrants law.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Quite an interesting definition though I get the feeling that you don't mean what you say. So let me ask you: are you against everything that liberal democracies support?

Sure I am, that's the very reason why I am not no longer a Liberal Democrat, after 45 years in supporting Liberal democrats,
That liberal democrats are no longer standing for what liberal democrats once stood for.

Liberal democrats are against taking children from their mothers, But finds nothing wrong in taking children from their mothers in Abortions.
Just one of many double standards of Liberal Democrats.
So let me ask you, are you against taking children from their mothers, But find nothing wrong in taking children from their mothers in Abortions ?

 

[Altfish]

You know, before you go bad mouthing,
It was your liberal democrat President Bill Clinton back in 1997 that pass the illegal immigrants law
The law you liberal democrats are now complaining about.
The law that President Trump is enforcing.
So before you go complaining, complain to your liberal democrats leaders that pass the illegal immigrants law.

Bill Clinton was NOT my President; I live in the UK, we have a Prime Minister here.
But I must ask, why wasn't Obama, Bush, etc. separating families at the border because despite what your echo chamber is saying they were not!?

You are a Christian, does Matthew 19:14 not mean anything to you? Ask yourself, instead of blaming others for Trump's vindictiveness, what would your lord and saviour do?

I'm an atheist and I have more morals in my tiny finger than you and your sort have in your whole body.

 

[Milton Platt]

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful." -Jeff Sessions

"I can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law. That is actually repeated a number of times throughout the Bible,” she said. “It’s a moral policy to follow and enforce the law.”-Sarah Huckabee Sanders

I implore @Sunstone @Faithofchristian and others to watch the following video starting @ 6:50 in relation to this thread, but if you want, I encourage you all to see the whole video especially from the part where you can hear the children crying.

I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?

I for one do no not agree that all laws of all form of governments are just, or moral, or should be accepted withoit resistence.

 

[stvdv]

Maybe you should watch this video about Hillary and Obama, how they feel about Illegal immigrants children coming into the USA.
Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama on illegal children.2014: “Just because your child gets across the border, doesn’t mean your child gets to stay...” —Hillary “ Do not send your children to our borders or they will get sent back!” —Obama"
Click on Twitter below for video
Twitter

Thank you for sharing. I did not know. Good to know. I judged to quick. Obama gave them at least a fair warning, that they should not come.
Difficult problems. Especially when their countries are at war. Terrible a few very rich people decide where/when to have their wars

[Not sure what is true nowadays. I read about this, you think that is true? And if true who is than responsible for everything? The ones keeping these animals in power. I don't trust politicians anymore. Many rich are all in this sick game I believe. You don't become billionaire playing honest I believe]
“If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” Gutle Schnaper Rothschild

 

[Jumi]

Sure I am, that's the very reason why I am not no longer a Liberal Democrat, after 45 years in supporting Liberal democrats,
That liberal democrats are no longer standing for what liberal democrats once stood for.

But you are against every single thing liberal democracies have stood for and stand for now and believe God is also against what they stood for?

Liberal democrats are against taking children from their mothers,

So you support all actions that take away children from their mothers? Not just in this case, and you believe God agrees with you.

But finds nothing wrong in taking children from their mothers in Abortions.
Just one of many double standards of Liberal Democrats.
So let me ask you, are you against taking children from their mothers, But find nothing wrong in taking children from their mothers in Abortions ?

So you think that governments should take away children from certain people, because abortions are worse? I see that view you're presenting as pure double standards. Though I'm still not convinced that you mean what you say.

 

[ecco]

It didn't take long for someone to...
But, but, sputter, but - look how evil Obama and Hillary are.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Bill Clinton was NOT my President; I live in the UK, we have a Prime Minister here.
But I must ask, why wasn't Obama, Bush, etc. separating families at the border because despite what your echo chamber is saying they were not!?

You are a Christian, does Matthew 19:14 not mean anything to you? Ask yourself, instead of blaming others for Trump's vindictiveness, what would your lord and saviour do?

I'm an atheist and I have more morals in my tiny finger than you and your sort have in your whole body.

Seeing that you live in the UK, then it's none of your business what we do in our Country.
It was Bill Clinton back in 1997 that pass the illegal immigrants law. The law that President Trump is enforcing.

Sure you do, Jesus said--- Suffer little children, and forbid them not to come unto me: for such is the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 19:14

Notice that Jesus did not say, "Suffer little children to come unto me in Abortions.

Seeing how Liberal democrats supports Abortions.
For the law of God's says -
"Thou shalt not kill" Exodus 20:13.

Bill Clinton was NOT my President; I live in the UK, we have a Prime Minister here.
But I must ask, why wasn't Obama, Bush, etc. separating families at the border because despite what your echo chamber is saying they were not!?

You are a Christian, does Matthew 19:14 not mean anything to you? Ask yourself, instead of blaming others for Trump's vindictiveness, what would your lord and saviour do?

I'm an atheist and I have more morals in my tiny finger than you and your sort have in your whole body.

As for Matthew 19:14, There is no where that Jesus said " Suffer little children to come unto me in Abortions.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I in cite you Epic Beard Man, to hear the crys of those babies that are being killed in Abortions.

This isn't an abortion discussion...Next!

 

[Faithofchristian]

This isn't an abortion discussion...Next!

What happened did I hit a nerve.

It's still taking children from their mothers Right

 

[Jumi]

I for one do no not agree that all laws of all form of governments are just, or moral, or should be accepted withoit resistence.

It's a form of madness to think governments are always right. Laws can be changed to be more just, better actions can be taken. Of course I don't believe for a moment that the "Christians" who support this would want to see an alternative that is humane, because they believe those people are lesser than them. They seem to believe anything these chidlren get, no matter how vile, is deserved because their parents didn't worship the right emperor...

 

[Jumi]

It's still taking children from their mothers Right

If you think they're the same, but you oppose only the other, then isn't that just pure hypocrisy from you? Of course you are blaming others for hypocrisy, but you don't take the "mote from thine own eye".

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Clandestine immigration implies that rules should change...and I don't agree with this policy.

There is another moral problem. Immigration is not a right...if these people were really in trouble, they would avoid making children. Extreme poverty should force you to have other priorities.

In Europe there are countries with negative population growth and very low birth rates because only the rich can afford to make children.

I would like people to reflect upon rights and equality. An European woman who gives up motherhood out of poverty- and a Guatemalan mother who defies the laws of a country, putting her daughter in danger.

What does this have to do with Europeans? Europeans don't break laws?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Epic Beard Man the simple and concrete answer is that, "an unjust law is no law at all":

"Human law is law only by virtue of its accordance with right reason; and thus it is manifest that it flows from the eternal law. And in so far as it deviates from right reason it is called an unjust law; in such case it is no law at all, but rather a species of violence."

-- Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274), Summa theologiae, Ia-Ilae, q. xciii, art. 3, ad 2m.

​

And so I am in no doubt that this policy of the Trump administration lacks the character of binding, positive law in the "court of conscience". It is thuggery writ large, as St. Thomas states above.

I don't even feel the need to elaborate much further.

When children are being forcibly separated from their parents and even held in cages, all human sentiment has been lost, let aloneright reason!

These are unprecedented human rights abuses by a Western government, as I know of none other that has enforced such draconian immigration measures.

You have no argument from me here....

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Epic Beard Man, you said --- ( I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?)

At what point should Christians go against the establishment) When that establishment such as Liberal democrats who support Abortions that goes directly against God's law, in taking innocent baby's lives in Abortions.
" Thou shalt not kill"
Exodus 20:13.

Therefore everything that God is against, Liberal democrates are in supporting.

I wish you stop deflecting and answer the dang question. If you want to spew nonsense I wont respond because this isn't about abortion. You sound deranged actually because you are avoiding answering the question.

 

[ecco]

For some deflection is an art form.

 

[Estro Felino]

What does this have to do with Europeans? Europeans don't break laws?

Actually my question was: "Is it moral that parents smuggle their children across the border? Do they deserve to be parents?".
Irresponsible parents are deprived of child custody all the time.

 

[VitoOFMCap]

I have to ask the Christians since, after all, many Christians state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?

I wrote a really long thing because people kept responding with statements that didn't really explore how people make moral choices, which seemed to be the original question.

The law being discussed is presented as a Lesser of Two Evils: to protect the borders, we have to separate families as a deterrent.

From the Humanity formula of the Categorical Imperative, humans are a means unto themselves, not a means to some other end.

Regardless of where people stand on immigration reform, or border security, the use of human beings to deter immigration is a makes it morally "evil," meaning that in order to promote the human flourishing of citizens in the US to have safe and secure borders, the law causes explicit harm to human flourishing.

I don't think that this moral process of decision making is only for Christians, but anyone who has an experience of culture, their own context, or the ability to have a set of values that promote human flourishing can recognize the flaw in the law, and should work towards promoting laws that reflect those values.

 

[Altfish]

Seeing that you live in the UK, then it's none of your business what we do in our Country.
It was Bill Clinton back in 1997 that pass the illegal immigrants law. The law that President Trump is enforcing.

Sure you do, Jesus said--- Suffer little children, and forbid them not to come unto me: for such is the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 19:14

Notice that Jesus did not say, "Suffer little children to come unto me in Abortions.

Seeing how Liberal democrats supports Abortions.
For the law of God's says -
"Thou shalt not kill" Exodus 20:13.



As for Matthew 19:14, There is no where that Jesus said " Suffer little children to come unto me in Abortions.

Totally ignored my questions, trying to change the subject, you really are a case.
You really must worry about breaking the 9th Commandment.
I don't believe in heaven but you can't have much chance of getting to that place,

 

[Brickjectivity]

state that this is a so-called Christian nation, at what point do you in light of your religious/spiritual beliefs go against the establishment in this case, laws that appear to be morally defunct?

By 'Go against the establishment' do you mean abandon all hope of law and order in our system, or do you mean change which politicians we support and write letters about our opinions? What action against the establishment?

This is not the law but the personal decisions of those in power aided and abetted by the majority in Congress who are either hiding in their closets out of fear or joining and justifying the evil acts of the current regime.

I agree.