political correct

[Kathryn]

Let me tell a personal story about how complicated this whole race thing can get (STUPIDLY complicated in my opinion!).

I was enrolling my youngest son in first grade at a new school. I filled out all the paperwork except for one part. This part was about race, and it stated in bolded letters, "Which ONE category describes the child's race? Choose only ONE of the following categories:" Then it had all the usual - White, non hispanic/Hispanic/
Black/Asian/Native American/Pacific Islander (forgive me if I've left any special interest groups out).

Anyway, since my children are multi racial, I just left that ONE question blank (out of about 10 pages of paperwork). That page was toward the back of the packet. I walked back up to the secretary and gave her the packet. Before I could even make it to the door, she hollered out, "HEY. You didn't finish the paperwork." I stopped and said, "Oh, I'm sorry - what did I forget to do?" She said, "You HAVE TO fill out the part about your kid's race."

Now - I'm not overly defensive or paranoid, but she had to have flipped immediately to that page to see what I'd written. I said to her, "That section appears to be incomplete and therefore impossible for me to answer accurately."

She stared at me with a sullen gaze and said, "Well, you have to check one category for your kid's race." I said, "Well, no, actually I DON'T have to check one category." I started to just turn and leave - I had my little boy WITH me for Pete's sake. As I was leaving, she started yelling behind me, "If you don't complete the paperwork, we won't let your son attend school!!!" I stopped dead in my tracks and turned around and put my arm around my son and said quietly,"I'd just like to see you try to stop him."

Then I took him to get an ice cream cone and assured him that she was wrong about the paperwork and that he'd be able to go to school the next week with no problems.

What a goober!

So - see...labels and words ARE important to some people. I wish we lived in a society where it absolutely just didn't MATTER what one's race was.

 

[Kathryn]

By the way, when my kids got older and were faced with any paperwork that forced them to categorize their race, they usually just checked all the boxes and turned the paperwork in.

Or they'd make another little checkpoint and write in "Human."

Proud mama!

 

[Father Heathen]

Let me tell a personal story about how complicated this whole race thing can get (STUPIDLY complicated in my opinion!).

I was enrolling my youngest son in first grade at a new school. I filled out all the paperwork except for one part. This part was about race, and it stated in bolded letters, "Which ONE category describes the child's race? Choose only ONE of the following categories:" Then it had all the usual - White, non hispanic/Hispanic/
Black/Asian/Native American/Pacific Islander (forgive me if I've left any special interest groups out).

Anyway, since my children are multi racial, I just left that ONE question blank (out of about 10 pages of paperwork). That page was toward the back of the packet. I walked back up to the secretary and gave her the packet. Before I could even make it to the door, she hollered out, "HEY. You didn't finish the paperwork." I stopped and said, "Oh, I'm sorry - what did I forget to do?" She said, "You HAVE TO fill out the part about your kid's race."

Now - I'm not overly defensive or paranoid, but she had to have flipped immediately to that page to see what I'd written. I said to her, "That section appears to be incomplete and therefore impossible for me to answer accurately."

She stared at me with a sullen gaze and said, "Well, you have to check one category for your kid's race." I said, "Well, no, actually I DON'T have to check one category." I started to just turn and leave - I had my little boy WITH me for Pete's sake. As I was leaving, she started yelling behind me, "If you don't complete the paperwork, we won't let your son attend school!!!" I stopped dead in my tracks and turned around and put my arm around my son and said quietly,"I'd just like to see you try to stop him."

Then I took him to get an ice cream cone and assured him that she was wrong about the paperwork and that he'd be able to go to school the next week with no problems.

What a goober!

So - see...labels and words ARE important to some people. I wish we lived in a society where it absolutely just didn't MATTER what one's race was.

That's the south for ya.

 

[Kathryn]

I've lived all over the world, and seen varying elements of racism everywhere. I do not believe that woman was the "norm" for the South, and I can say that with some authority since I've lived in the American south for much of my life. She was a whack job. (By the way, my son enrolled in school with no problem, and with very, very few exceptions, my colorful children dated whoever they wanted to throughout school.)

I've also seen and experienced racial prejudice in the Northeast US as well, and it's RAMPANT in Europe. Absolutely rampant. It's so pervasive in many parts of Europe that I swear they are not even aware of the extent of it.

By the way, the question demanding ONE category be chosen is common on FEDERAL forms, college applications, public schools all over the United States - it still amazes me when I see it in this day and age.

 

[Father Heathen]

and it's RAMPANT in Europe. Absolutely rampant. It's so pervasive in many parts of Europe that I swear they are not even aware of the extent of it.

Well, they are a culturally backward peoples.

By the way, the question demanding ONE category be chosen is common on FEDERAL forms, college applications, public schools all over the United States - it still amazes me when I see it in this day and age.

I thought they had "multiracial", "other" and/or "no answer" on them nowadays.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I've lived all over the world, and seen varying elements of racism everywhere. I do not believe that woman was the "norm" for the South, and I can say that with some authority since I've lived in the American south for much of my life. She was a whack job. (By the way, my son enrolled in school with no problem, and with very, very few exceptions, my colorful children dated whoever they wanted to throughout school.)

I've also seen and experienced racial prejudice in the Northeast US as well, and it's RAMPANT in Europe. Absolutely rampant. It's so pervasive in many parts of Europe that I swear they are not even aware of the extent of it.

By the way, the question demanding ONE category be chosen is common on FEDERAL forms, college applications, public schools all over the United States - it still amazes me when I see it in this day and age.

You should simply write "Half Cast" and leave them to their own prejudices.
A very useful non Politically correct term. Much like Mongerel... which is clearly true of most british.

 

[dmgdnooc]

Let me tell a personal story about how complicated this whole race thing can get (STUPIDLY complicated in my opinion!).

I was enrolling my youngest son in first grade at a new school. I filled out all the paperwork except for one part. This part was about race, and it stated in bolded letters, "Which ONE category describes the child's race? Choose only ONE of the following categories:" Then it had all the usual - White, non hispanic/Hispanic/
Black/Asian/Native American/Pacific Islander (forgive me if I've left any special interest groups out).

Anyway, since my children are multi racial, I just left that ONE question blank (out of about 10 pages of paperwork). That page was toward the back of the packet. I walked back up to the secretary and gave her the packet. Before I could even make it to the door, she hollered out, "HEY. You didn't finish the paperwork." I stopped and said, "Oh, I'm sorry - what did I forget to do?" She said, "You HAVE TO fill out the part about your kid's race."

Now - I'm not overly defensive or paranoid, but she had to have flipped immediately to that page to see what I'd written. I said to her, "That section appears to be incomplete and therefore impossible for me to answer accurately."

She stared at me with a sullen gaze and said, "Well, you have to check one category for your kid's race." I said, "Well, no, actually I DON'T have to check one category." I started to just turn and leave - I had my little boy WITH me for Pete's sake. As I was leaving, she started yelling behind me, "If you don't complete the paperwork, we won't let your son attend school!!!" I stopped dead in my tracks and turned around and put my arm around my son and said quietly,"I'd just like to see you try to stop him."

Then I took him to get an ice cream cone and assured him that she was wrong about the paperwork and that he'd be able to go to school the next week with no problems.

What a goober!

So - see...labels and words ARE important to some people. I wish we lived in a society where it absolutely just didn't MATTER what one's race was.

What a tellingly sad comment on the system that demands an answer to that question. Infusing the matter, as it does, with the system's sense of self-importance and prejudice, imo.
　
My understanding is that, in Australia, that question, if it was suggested, wouldn't make it through the first review process before printing the form.
Here, such a question would, could, only be asked if a particular group, say Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islanders, were entitled to some form of positive discrimination.
And would have to be framed in such a way as to be a yes/no answer. eg 'Are you, or do you identify with, whatever group?'
　
That there are groups requiring 'positive discrimination' reflects on the 'negative discrimination' of Australia's past.
　
Political correctness here, in Australia, recognises 'ethnicity' not 'race'.
I think the purpose, and power, of PC is to affect attitudes in a positive way by de-emphasising, or refusing to recognise, stereo-typical generalisations.
The words that we use not only have an affect on others, but also reflect the thoughts in our heads, our own attitudes. So changing the way we express an idea can change the way we think about that idea.
　
That said, Australia still has a long way to go, but it seems, not as far as the US.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't know about all that - on the surface it seems that Australia's "ethnic challenges" are pretty simplistic, compared to the US.

I could be wrong, but it seems that the US melting pot is a lot more diverse than the Australian one.

 

[dmgdnooc]

I don't know about all that - on the surface it seems that Australia's "ethnic challenges" are pretty simplistic, compared to the US.

I could be wrong, but it seems that the US melting pot is a lot more diverse than the Australian one.

No argument on that.
Your point is proven in our population differences alone, even without regard to our different histories.
　
Prior to WW2 Australia was a mono-culture, for all intents and purposes, a part of the British Empire with all the intellectual baggage that goes with our colonial past.
　
Since then, migration has been more diverse and successive governments (since the 1960's)have fostered the idea of multi-culturalism. And the idea, in many important respects, has caught on.
　
My point was that the demand for a declaration of 'racial identity' like the one you described would not be permitted to be made by an Australian educational facility. It would be seen as politically incorrect.

 

[Ordeet]

I agree with most people here that you shouldn't be racist or discriminatory. However, I consider this more about good manners than being politically correct. For example I would never use the n-word, or be hostile to gay people for their identity.

However I think at the same time political correctness goes too far when some people refuse to criticize things that are truly wrong with other cultures. Sometimes the Right can be politically correct too. Such as when they try to defend the catholic church's sex abuse scandals. Sometimes the Left is also politically correct when they brush Islam's propensity for violence under the rug.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

I've noticed that people call something "politically correct" if they don't like it.

This.

People in a dominant group--whether one of race, religion, or sexual orientation--cannot be aware that they are in a position of privilege unless it is brought to their attention, and they then acknowledge it. That's one of the biggest unfair benefits of privilege for the dominant groups: Most in that group are completely unaware that they even have that privilege.

Thus we come back to the issue of culturally-sensitive speech, commonly derided as "political correctness." If I, as a white, heterosexual person, can't modify a tiny fraction of my vocabulary so as not to talk or act in a way that enforces my advantage over blacks and homosexuals, then I have some ego problems that I need to work out.

 

[Mathematician]

Perhaps, but then you have articles like this (some language that may not be work appropriate) that assert absurd circumstances like men referring to any woman as ugly or annoying being examples of sexism.

 

[Cult_Crusher]

Personally, I feel that political correctness infringes on the right to freedom of speech. I could be wrong, but I've never heard that in the constitution it says anything about the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press, as long as it doesn't disparage an individual or group on the basis of sex, nationality, race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, etc...I'm given to understand that it means TOTAL freedom. On the other hand, this does not mean "say whatever you want and it shall be beyond reproach".

On that note, I agree with SSE; say whatever you want, but freedom of speech means reaping the very possible negative consequences of speaking freely.

 

[Cult_Crusher]

Perhaps, but then you have articles like this (some language that may not be work appropriate) that assert absurd circumstances like men referring to any woman as ugly or annoying being examples of sexism.

I agree, this is quite absurd. I have lived around women my whole life, and I can attest that women often talk this way about men as well. Something they like to call "girl talk". This is something that feminists often complain about, to submit as evidence that the female sex are perennially repressed by the big bad dominant male sex. I maintain that the human kingdom is much like the animal kingdom (especially with matters of sex): the only power given to males over females, especially in today's world, is through female acquiescence. In the animal kingdom, the FEMALE chooses the mate. The sexual power of the human female draws similar parallels

 

[Aqualung]

Personally, I feel that political correctness infringes on the right to freedom of speech.

How? Political correctness is a social convention, not a law. How does something that you can either choose to follow or choose not to follow actually infringe on a right?

 

[Cypress]

How? Political correctness is a social convention, not a law. How does something that you can either choose to follow or choose not to follow actually infringe on a right?

Can you really choose?
When enough people think pc speach should be practiced and that midget is in the same brand as N*****, how can you choose not to use the absurd phrase vertically challenged?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

I agree, this is quite absurd. I have lived around women my whole life, and I can attest that women often talk this way about men as well. Something they like to call "girl talk". This is something that feminists often complain about, to submit as evidence that the female sex are perennially repressed by the big bad dominant male sex. I maintain that the human kingdom is much like the animal kingdom (especially with matters of sex): the only power given to males over females, especially in today's world, is through female acquiescence. In the animal kingdom, the FEMALE chooses the mate. The sexual power of the human female draws similar parallels

At risk of derailing this thread, sexism is a complex subject, and IMO many feminists and most chauvinists get it wrong.

How? Political correctness is a social convention, not a law. How does something that you can either choose to follow or choose not to follow actually infringe on a right?

Exactly...because it's not a right in the first place. I don't know how free speech somehow became this divine providence that humans should have the freedom to say anything and everything, no matter how hateful, malicious, spiteful, or untrue. The day we learn to separate that from genuine free speech is the day that we learn to get over this issue of culturally-sensitive language, commonly derided as "political correctness."

 

[Cult_Crusher]

How? Political correctness is a social convention, not a law. How does something that you can either choose to follow or choose not to follow actually infringe on a right?

Political correctness, while not a law on the books, is becoming the accepted social norm. True, one can choose, or not, to follow PC, and freedom of speech, in its truest form, is not a carte blanche to say whatever you want, it specifically is the freedom to question government and policy without fear of reproach, especially imprisonment.

However, can freedom of speech not have a broader social context? I believe that yes, it can. I'm not advocating the use of hate-speech (especially with respect to race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation), but many non-PC words (many of which do not qualify as hate-speech) and phrases are part of the vernacular.

People, as a whole, are far too sensitive, and this is largely an issue of sensitivity. If one is so offended by a particular word or phrase (they are just words, after all), might they not be better served by ignoring it rather than making such a fuss? Grow a thicker skin, or let it roll off.

The way I see it, the next step from PC is to take works of literature, as an example, and take out any offending passages from, say, Joyce's Ulysses or Miller's Tropic of Cancer (both of which were banned books, by the way), thus completely changing the character of the work. Pretty soon, offending ideas (which are usually the good ones), images, etc, will be quelled as soon as they are formed, all in the name of not offending anyone. That would be quite a travesty.

 

[Cypress]

There was also an issue of Huckleberry Finn being banned because of the N word.

 

[Father Heathen]

However I think at the same time political correctness goes too far when some people refuse to criticize things that are truly wrong with other cultures. Sometimes the Right can be politically correct too. Such as when they try to defend the catholic church's sex abuse scandals. Sometimes the Left is also politically correct when they brush Islam's propensity for violence under the rug.

Excellent point.