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POLL - To Make HinduDIR BLUE

Do you want the HinduDIR to become BLUE?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stormcry

Well-Known Member
As far as I know only one person here cares about that. I know if I was the only person out of 40 that cared about something passionately while the other 39 didn't, I'd drop it.

Because here I observed so many hindus who are actually following vedic dharma according to western thinking. I call them modern hindus .

There are millions of true hindus who don't use religious forums & that Majority of hindus believe in that . They believe in traditional hinduism, not in Hinduism affected by western thinking . This is the only difference. They don't deny the authority of Puranas. They don't deny the authority of Manusmriti. They believe in superiority of bramhana varna and worship them as bhagavan. They don't see this superiority to lower others . We don't see Varna dharma with inferiority aspect . It is the non-hindu mind that sees it .

If something has support from shastras , we clearly accept that , otherwise we don't . And whoever tries to redefine Hinduism according to his need , we oppose it . However people misunderstand us but we don't care about it .


Hari Hari.. ..
 
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Jaskaran Singh

Divosūnupriyaḥ
Hinduism♥Krishna;3668233 said:
Because here I observed so many hindus who are actually following vedic dharma according to western thinking. I call them modern hindus .

There are millions of true hindus who don't use religious forums & that Majority of hindus believe in that . They believe in traditional hinduism, not in Hinduism affected by western thinking . This is the only difference. They don't deny the authority of Puranas. They don't deny the authority of Manusmriti. They believe in superiority of bramhana varna and worship them as bhagavan. They don't see this superiority to lower others . We don't see Varna dharma with inferiority aspect . It is the non-hindu mind that sees it .

If something has support from shastras , we clearly accept that , otherwise we don't . And whoever tries to redefine Hinduism according to his need , we oppose it . However people misunderstand us but we don't care about it .


Hari Hari.. ..
You still haven't answered my question. How exactly would you determine if someone is "Hindu born"?
Edit: Was the daitya prahlAda "Hindu-born" in your view?
 
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Sb1995

Om Sai Ram
Hinduism♥Krishna;3668233 said:
Because here I observed so many hindus who are actually following vedic dharma according to western thinking. I call them modern hindus .

There are millions of true hindus who don't use religious forums & that Majority of hindus believe in that . They believe in traditional hinduism, not in Hinduism affected by western thinking . This is the only difference. They don't deny the authority of Puranas. They don't deny the authority of Manusmriti. They believe in superiority of bramhana varna and worship them as bhagavan. They don't see this superiority to lower others . We don't see Varna dharma with inferiority aspect . It is the non-hindu mind that sees it .

If something has support from shastras , we clearly accept that , otherwise we don't . And whoever tries to redefine Hinduism according to his need , we oppose it . However people misunderstand us but we don't care about it .


Hari Hari.. ..

chup karo yaar, itni baqwas mat bolo. Hindu is Hindu. by birth or not
 

Jaskaran Singh

Divosūnupriyaḥ
chup karo yaar, itni baqwas mat bolo. Hindu is Hindu. by birth or not
Why are you writing "baqwaas" rather than "bakwaas" for nonsense, it should be the latter since it's written as बकवास/بکواس and not as बक़वास/بقواس.
 

Nyingjé Tso

Dharma not drama
Vanakkam,

Let's be civilized please. This tread IS NOT:
> For debating
> Discussing you ancestry
> Discussing grammar or writing of whatever language
> Flag who is hindu and who is not
> Debating on who is Hindu and who is not while flagging people with your ancestry's grammar. NOBODY. CARES. SERIOUSLY.

This tread is:

> To vote whether or not we change the color of the HinduDIR.


I am TIRED of all this nonsense in this DIR, let'ts just show the friggin' world we are CIVILIZED PEOPLE able to POST IN A TREAD without DERAILING or RUINING IT.

Also, for everyone to remember regarding cancers like H(l)K (I don't understand why you and your nazi-like racists ideas didn't get you banned already. Not that it would be the first forum, right ?)

1897882_10152030253226840_1069096329_n.jpg


Now let's make an effort and stop being uncivilized idiots, thanks.


EDIT: THANK YOU for whoever restricted HLK. Thank you so much.
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram Jaskaran ji :namaste

I agree; Hinduism(luvs)Krishna's obsession with birth is ridiculously stupid and probably very offensive to so-called non-"Hindu-born" (to use his terminology) people like you, shivafan, NYK, and others.


it is offensive , except I am firm enough in my faith to be able to egnore the offensiveness of youth .... not that all youths are offensive far from it but sometimes youth follows the fundamentalism of others without realising what it is doing .


Besides, how could you tell online if someone is "Hindu born" anyway, and what about different scenarios? Even though I consider myself culturally "Indian" and my parents are kShatriya by varNa, I was born in Pakistan and not bhArat, I was a sikh for the first 11 or so years of my life, and even genetically, I'm primarily Iranian and not Indian. Do I count? Probably not. Oh, and what about other Hindus not born in India, like those in nepAl and bali or Indian origin Hindus who no longer live in bhArat? Ultimately, what's the point?

our guru refuses to use the title India , I now FULLY understand why .
and I am begining to develop a real disstaste for the word Hinduism too .....

and as for the idea of western hinduism ..... as practiced in the west , .....there are plenty of Bharatia born who are living here that are doing exactly that , they are more western in their thought and behavior than I am ...... so now what ?


ps I havent voted yet ..... only because I think any one can Identify as hindu , ... then what


and me ? ..... Vaisnava :namaste
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
मैत्रावरुणिः;3668114 said:
This thread is not for "Hindu born people". This thread is for astika-s, and astika-s only.
MaitraVarunih, You should explain the meaning of 'astika'. For example, I accept the existence of Brahman. I have highest regard for RigVeda. Am I, then, an 'astika'? Or, even after accepting the existence of Brahman, I can be a 'nastika'?

I am born in a Hindu Kashmiri Brahmin family which traces its line to Sage Upamanyu, a Vasishtha, perhaps a writer of a richa in RigVeda, and according to SriMadBhagawatham, a person who blessed Lord Krishna. A clansman of mine, who also went by the name of Aupamanyava, is mentioned by Yaska (700 BC according to Wikipedia) as a 'nairukta' before his time.

I have been given all the Hindu 'samskaras' at proper age and I have given these 'samskaras' to my son at the proper age. I have no problem with Hindu polytheists, and as you know, my family is one such. I am a strict 'advaitist' and I consider Adi Sankara as my guru. I welcome people to know more about Hinduism. I do not consider non-Hindus as Mlechhas.

As you know, my grandfather was a professor of Sanskrit in Jodhpur. He was an acknowledged historian, numistamist and archaeologist. He received the highest academic title in British times, that of Mahamahopadhyaya (that means great-great-teacher). He could read one of the two scripts, Kharoshti or Brahmi, I do not remember which one. He wrote a 8,000 verse smriti in Sanskrit. He also wrote three books on Vedas. He translated Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak's books on Aryan history in Hindi. His books were prescribed for Master's study in History. He was a examiner for Ph.D. in History. He chaired sessions of Indian Historical Council.

Actually, this whole debate is on the wrong foot. A Hindu is a Hindu, whatever his views may be. Hinduism did not curtail the freedom of any person to hold his views. How come you will consider a person a Hindu only if he/she is an astika and belongs to a particular sampradaya. Does that mean that people would require a certificate from you to be known as a Hindu? I think this is a very retrograde step. I was always proud of the fact that Hinduism is the only religion in the world which does not fetter its adherents. But, perhaps the times have changed. As for who is an 'astika' and who is a 'nastika', kindly read this following articles.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Atheism (Sanskrit: निरीश्वरवाद, nir-īśvara-vāda, lit. "statement of no Lord", "doctrine of godlessness") or disbelief in God or gods has been a historically propounded viewpoint in many of the orthodox and heterodox streams of Hindu philosophies. Generally, atheism is valid in Hinduism, but some schools view the path of an atheist to be difficult to follow in matters of spirituality.

Among the various schools of Hindu philosophy, Mimamsa, and Samkhya while not rejecting Brahman, typically rejects a personal God, creator God, or a God with attributes. (Aup adds: Vaisesika also is an atheist darshana. The early Vaiśeṣika epistemology considered only pratyakṣa (perception) and anumāna (inference) as the pramāṇas (means of valid knowledge). (Aup adds: And not 'sabda', i.e., Vedas) The Brihadaranyaka, Isha, Mundaka (in which Brahman is everything and "no-thing") and especially Chandogya Upanishads have also been interpreted as atheistic because of their stress on the subjective self.

Accroding to Nobel laureate Amartya Sen: "In some ways people had got used to the idea that India was spiritual and religion-oriented. That gave a leg up to the religious interpretation of India, despite the fact that Sanskrit had a larger atheistic literature than what exists in any other classical language. Madhava Acharya, the remarkable 14th century philosopher, wrote this rather great book called Sarvadarshansamgraha, which discussed all the religious schools of thought within the Hindu structure. The first chapter is "Atheism" – a very strong presentation of the argument in favor of atheism and materialism."

Veer (Vinayaka Damodar) Savarkar, a noted Independence fighter and President of Hindu Mahasabha described himself as a Hindu Atheist.
Hindu atheists: Jawaharlal Nehru (First Prime Minister of India), Baba Amte, Ashok Bajpai (Sahitya Academy Awardee), Amol Palekar (Filmmaker and Actor), C.P.Joshi (Currently Minister of Transportation), E.M.S. Namboodaripad, E.K. Nayanar, V.S. Achuthanandan (Chief Ministers of Kerala), Goparaju Ramachandra Rao (Atheist activist, participant in the Indian independence movement), Lala Har Dayal (Indian nationalist revolutionary, polymath and founder of the Ghadar Party), Jagadish Shettar (BJP Chief Minister of Karnataka), Jyoti Basu (Chief Minister of West Bengal), K. Siddaramaiah (Curent Chief Minister of Karnataka), K. Shivaram Karanth (Jnanpith awardee, Kannada novelist), Kamal Haasan (Filmmaker and actor), M. Karunanidhi (Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu), M.N. Roy (Indian nationalist revolutionary, radical activist), Mani Shankar Aiyar (Ministries of Panchayati Raj, Petroleum and Natural Gas, Youth Affairs, Development of North-Eastern Region), Narendra Dabholkar (Rationalist, anti-superstition activist), P. Chidambaram (Currently Finance Minister of India), Dr. P.M. Bhargava (Biotechnologist and founder of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology), Periyar E.V. Ramasamy (Founder, Dravidar Kazhagam), R. P. Paranjpe (High Commissioner of India in Australia and vice-chancellor of Bombay University), Ram Gopal Varma (Film director), Ram Manohar Lohia (Noted politician and Freedom fighter), S. Nijalingappa (Chief Minister of Karnataka), Satish Gujral (Painter, Padma Vibhushan awardee), Shriram Lagoo (Actor), Sitaram Yechury (Member of Parliament, Communist), Subramanyan Chandrasekhar (Nobel laureate, Indian-American astrophysicist), Sushil Kumar Shinde (Currently Union Home Minister), Vijay Tendulkar (Marathi writer and dramatist).
Atheism in Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreli...Indian_rationalists.2C_atheists_and_agnostics
 
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Ravi500

Active Member
Atheism (Sanskrit: निरीश्वरवाद, nir-īśvara-vāda, lit. "statement of no Lord", "doctrine of godlessness") or disbelief in God or gods has been a historically propounded viewpoint in many of the orthodox and heterodox streams of Hindu philosophies. Generally, atheism is valid in Hinduism, but some schools view the path of an atheist to be difficult to follow in matters of spirituality.

Among the various schools of Hindu philosophy, Mimamsa, and Samkhya while not rejecting Brahman, typically rejects a personal God, creator God, or a God with attributes. (Aup adds: Vaisesika also is an atheist darshana. The early Vaiśeṣika epistemology considered only pratyakṣa (perception) and anumāna (inference) as the pramāṇas (means of valid knowledge). (Aup adds: And not 'sabda', i.e., Vedas) The Brihadaranyaka, Isha, Mundaka (in which Brahman is everything and "no-thing") and especially Chandogya Upanishads have also been interpreted as atheistic because of their stress on the subjective self.
Atheism in Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Accroding to Nobel laureate Amartya Sen:

"In some ways people had got used to the idea that India was spiritual and religion-oriented. That gave a leg up to the religious interpretation of India, despite the fact that Sanskrit had a larger atheistic literature than what exists in any other classical language. Madhava Acharya, the remarkable 14th century philosopher, wrote this rather great book called Sarvadarshansamgraha, which discussed all the religious schools of thought within the Hindu structure. The first chapter is "Atheism" – a very strong presentation of the argument in favor of atheism and materialism."

Veer (Vinayaka Damodar) Savarkar, a noted Independence fighter and President of Hindu Mahasabha described himself as a Hindu Atheist.

Atheism is valid in Hinduism in the sense that a jnana yogi, one who believes in Brahman as a state of consciousness as per the words of the sages, does not have to believe in God or gods.

Your interpretation of Brahman is quite different from that of the sages, as I and other readers pointed out.

Also you use Arya in the race-related sense, and not in the universalist sense, as taught in Hinduism.

You blatantly state that you do not believe in God, gods or goddesses, which can hurt the sensibilities of those who do. If you are an atheist, keep it to yourself, why state it !

It will be like myself going to the atheist forum and talking about God and the gods , stating at the same time that I am an atheist because atheism is there in jnana yoga in Hinduism. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
THE SPEAKING TREE
The Atheistic Roots of Hindu Philosophy
May 22, 2004, 12.00am IST

The core of Hindu scriptural tradition, it is commonly thought, is all about theism or belief in God. But that is a huge misconception. Even disregarding the 'heterodox' streams like the charvaks, with their underlying message of materialist hedonism, or Buddhism, the philosophical canon — call it higher Hinduism — leaves plenty of room for dissent even on a question as central as the existence of God.

Indeed, the reason why some schools of darshana — Purva and Uttar Mimansa, Sankhya and Yoga, Nyaya and Vaisheshika — are regarded as 'orthodox' and others such as Jainism, Buddhism and Charvaks are not, has little or nothing to do with a belief in God. The real point of departure is whether or not a particular system of thought accepts the Vedas as the ultimate source of philosophical authority. The so-called orthodox schools do — even though it has been convin-cingly argued that this acceptance is more notional than real — while the other three don't. Significantly, the original meanings of the terms astika and nastika, too, hinge on this vital diffe-rence. While the astikas believe in the veracity and infallibility of the Vedas, the nastikas clearly don't.

Among the astikas, the two oldest schools — San-khya and Purva Mimansa — strongly refute the theory of God. Thus, the source book for Sankhya darshan, Ishwar Krishan's Sankhya Karika, is full of subtle arguments which reject the possibility of there being an all-powerful creator and controller of the world. Vigyan Bhikshu's Sankhya Pravachna Bhashya makes a case for why a belief in the divine principle is unwarranted. Even Kapila's classic treatise on the subject, which is far less emphatic in its rejection of God, finds it unnecessary to accept any theistic assumptions.

Similarly, Purva Mimansa has a strong element of disbelief at its core. Jaimini's Mimansa Sutra, the founding text, is mostly preoccupied with proving the efficacy and power of Yagna (or sacrificial fire) but shies away from attributing it to any divinity. Instead, in common with latter Miman-saks like Kumarila, Jaimini takes delight in rejecting the God hypothesis. In Yoga — beginning with Patanjali's Yoga Sutra — which is widely regarded as theistic in nature, the acceptance of God is, in part, purely verbal. In large areas of practical reasoning, God is happily overlooked, if not consciously ignored. In Nyaya, the quint-essential Indian tradition of formal logic, there is an attempt to prove, as in Jayanta Bhatt's Nyaya Manjari, the existence of God, but such arguments are far from being universally accepted.

The only 'God-fearing' candidate among the orthodox schools is perhaps Uttar Mimansa, of which Shankara's ad-vaita or vedantic philosophy is the best known example. But, contrary to received wisdom, Shankara was never accepted, either by his contemporaries or latter-day thin-kers, as the be all and end all of Indian thought. It was only in the 19th century, thanks to the need of the native intellectuals to create the image of an 'essentially' spiritual India as opposed to an equally materialist West, that Shankara's advaita came to be regarded as the pinnacle of Indian philosophical achievement.

Interestingly, atheism in the Indian tradition is not necessarily premised on a prior acceptance of materialism, either in the philosophical or everyday sense. All the atheistic schools mentioned above, even when they reject God, accept the existence of a permanent soul (atman), which is quite distinct from corporeal or physical reality. If anything, Indian atheism — except in the case of the charvaks — is strongly anti-materialistic in character.
THE SPEAKING TREEThe Atheistic Roots of Hindu Philosophy - Times Of India
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If you are an atheist, keep it to yourself, why state it!
I can give point-to-point replies to all that you have mentioned but I would not do that at the moment, but please let me know if I can tell you "If you are a theist, keep it to yourself, why state it?"
 

Tyaga

Na Asat
I voted yes.

Now let me explain my belief system:

I follow Bharatiya Dharma or Bharatism in English(native alternative term for 'Hinduism') this includes every Indian religions and sects,including Buddhism,Jainism,Ajivika and even Adivasi sects(which is not unified and vary from different tribes).I consider all of them as Bharatists and respect all Indian faiths and beliefs. :D


As for my philosophy,i believe in 'The One' as attested in Rig Veda(like in Nasadiya sukta) and view every Devatas as reflections of same One.Sometimes i'm a bit skeptical,like the poet in Nasadiya sukta expresses skepticism in the last shlokas


" Whence all creation had its origin,
he, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
he, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows - or maybe even he does not know"

:eek:
 
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Ravi500

Active Member
I can give point-to-point replies to all that you have mentioned but I would not do that at the moment, but please let me know if I can tell you "If you are a theist, keep it to yourself, why state it?"

If I am in the atheist forum, you can indeed tell me that, taking into account the sensibilities of the atheists there. :)
 

Ravi500

Active Member
THE SPEAKING TREE
The Atheistic Roots of Hindu Philosophy
May 22, 2004, 12.00am IST

The core of Hindu scriptural tradition, it is commonly thought, is all about theism or belief in God. But that is a huge misconception. Even disregarding the 'heterodox' streams like the charvaks, with their underlying message of materialist hedonism, or Buddhism, the philosophical canon — call it higher Hinduism — leaves plenty of room for dissent even on a question as central as the existence of God.

Indeed, the reason why some schools of darshana — Purva and Uttar Mimansa, Sankhya and Yoga, Nyaya and Vaisheshika — are regarded as 'orthodox' and others such as Jainism, Buddhism and Charvaks are not, has little or nothing to do with a belief in God. The real point of departure is whether or not a particular system of thought accepts the Vedas as the ultimate source of philosophical authority. The so-called orthodox schools do — even though it has been convin-cingly argued that this acceptance is more notional than real — while the other three don't. Significantly, the original meanings of the terms astika and nastika, too, hinge on this vital diffe-rence. While the astikas believe in the veracity and infallibility of the Vedas, the nastikas clearly don't.

Among the astikas, the two oldest schools — San-khya and Purva Mimansa — strongly refute the theory of God. Thus, the source book for Sankhya darshan, Ishwar Krishan's Sankhya Karika, is full of subtle arguments which reject the possibility of there being an all-powerful creator and controller of the world. Vigyan Bhikshu's Sankhya Pravachna Bhashya makes a case for why a belief in the divine principle is unwarranted. Even Kapila's classic treatise on the subject, which is far less emphatic in its rejection of God, finds it unnecessary to accept any theistic assumptions.

Similarly, Purva Mimansa has a strong element of disbelief at its core. Jaimini's Mimansa Sutra, the founding text, is mostly preoccupied with proving the efficacy and power of Yagna (or sacrificial fire) but shies away from attributing it to any divinity. Instead, in common with latter Miman-saks like Kumarila, Jaimini takes delight in rejecting the God hypothesis. In Yoga — beginning with Patanjali's Yoga Sutra — which is widely regarded as theistic in nature, the acceptance of God is, in part, purely verbal. In large areas of practical reasoning, God is happily overlooked, if not consciously ignored. In Nyaya, the quint-essential Indian tradition of formal logic, there is an attempt to prove, as in Jayanta Bhatt's Nyaya Manjari, the existence of God, but such arguments are far from being universally accepted.

The only 'God-fearing' candidate among the orthodox schools is perhaps Uttar Mimansa, of which Shankara's ad-vaita or vedantic philosophy is the best known example. But, contrary to received wisdom, Shankara was never accepted, either by his contemporaries or latter-day thin-kers, as the be all and end all of Indian thought. It was only in the 19th century, thanks to the need of the native intellectuals to create the image of an 'essentially' spiritual India as opposed to an equally materialist West, that Shankara's advaita came to be regarded as the pinnacle of Indian philosophical achievement.

Interestingly, atheism in the Indian tradition is not necessarily premised on a prior acceptance of materialism, either in the philosophical or everyday sense. All the atheistic schools mentioned above, even when they reject God, accept the existence of a permanent soul (atman), which is quite distinct from corporeal or physical reality. If anything, Indian atheism — except in the case of the charvaks — is strongly anti-materialistic in character.
THE SPEAKING TREEThe Atheistic Roots of Hindu Philosophy - Times Of India


In all the above HIndu philosophies mentioned, Brahman is seen as a state of consciousness, as per the teachings of the sages.

Thus being conscious and sentient, Brahman is divinity in itself, though impersonal.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
In all the above HIndu philosophies mentioned, Brahman is seen as a state of consciousness, as per the teachings of the sages.

Thus being conscious and sentient, Brahman is divinity in itself, though impersonal.
That is a question of how one looks at it. Some people will have one 'mata', other people will have other 'matas' (opinions).
 

Ravi500

Active Member
That is a question of how one looks at it. Some people will have one 'mata', other people will have other 'matas' (opinions).

Thus one should know oneself to be of the nature of Existence-Consciousness-Bliss[Sat-Chit-Ananda]. -- Adi Shankaracharya

Ramana Maharshi himself had stated in answer to a devotees inquiry on the non-dual state. "There is Consciousness along with quietness in the mind; this is exactly the state to be aimed at."

As you can see, this is the mata of the sages themselves. :)

If you want to give a different interpretation of Advaita, why use the term 'Advaita' itself. You can instead term it , for example, as Aupmanyav Vedanta as opposed to Advaita vedanta.

Of course, you have to validate it with the hindu scholars and then establish your own sampradaya or school of philosophy within hinduism.

This will make things easier for the others who have studied the interpretation of Advaita as per the ancient sages teachings or who wish to study , and will allow no room for confusion or error. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Is it not 'advaita'? Why is any other name required? Why should there be any confusion? The existence of one entity, all others being forms of it. I do not have to validate it with anyone else. It is my 'mata'. In time there would be many who would accept it, not just in India, but world-wide. Many people are turning towards it even without my help. It does not have to be named after me, that is egoistic. I would cease to exist as Aupmanyav in less than 10 years.
 
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Ravi500

Active Member
Is it not 'advaita'? Why is any other name required?

Since you insist it is not a state of consciousness , which is contrary to what the ancient sages I quoted above says it is, it is bound to confuse a lot of people.

I believe it is important to reduce confusion and error, the path of advaita being hard work as it is, and quite important as well for spiritual upliftment of the individual and the world. :)
 

Sb1995

Om Sai Ram

Why are you writing "baqwaas" rather than "bakwaas" for nonsense, it should be the latter since it's written as बकवास/بکواس and not as बक़वास/بقواس.

Cant read Hindi nor Urdu. Also same thing lol who cares! You understood it so I'm sure anyone would :D
 
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