Poor and Homelessness

[The Hammer]

The poor are living in tents and begging on street corners.

This has existed well before Ds and Rs. How do we address a problem that is a fact of large-scale society itself.

Outside of partisan politics, what can we do, but act individually to address what we can: what we are actively in control of?

 

[Left Coast]

In most Anthropological circles and theories, "poverty" as we know it today, began with the advent of agriculture. About 7000 y/ago. Outside of that, everyone was as poor as their environment.

It's the ability to develop a surplus, that allows us to even conceive of poverty. The first surpluses came from our development of agrarian societies.

Personally, I would vastly prefer to live now than then. Our issues now pale in comparison to the harshness of pre-agrarian life.

 

[The Hammer]

Personally, I would vastly prefer to live now than then. Our issues now pale in comparison to the harshness of pre-agrarian life.

I'm okay with a shorter and less affluent lifestyle, that was simpler.

 

[The Hammer]

Personally, I would vastly prefer to live now than then. Our issues now pale in comparison to the harshness of pre-agrarian life.

Mother ****er everything I wrote got deleted. Arrgghhhh.

 

[The Hammer]

Personally, I would vastly prefer to live now than then. Our issues now pale in comparison to the harshness of pre-agrarian life.

Gist.

We work waaaaaaay more and much harder (by almost +40 hours). In modern society, to accomplish everything we need to. Than does a modern day hunter gatherer society, such as the Ju /' hoansi of South Africa.

Edit: to clarify we (modern society) often work 80+ hours a week. 40 for monetary work, and 40 for chores, such as laundry, cooking, and travel time.

 

[Left Coast]

Gist.

We work waaaaaaay more and much harder (by almost +40 hours). In modern society, to accomplish everything we need to. Than does a modern day hunter gatherer society, such as the Ju /' hoansi of South Africa.

Have you ever lived in such a place?

Our lives in the modern world are vastly materially easier than the lives of people from millennia ago. We live longer. We are healthier. We don't work remotely as hard for the food we eat. Most of us virtually never experience actual hunger. Society's infrastructure provides a multitude of creature comforts and conveniences for us that folks living in pre-industrial societies could never dream of.

 

[MikeF]

I don't disagree completely. But there is evidence of pre-homo sapiens, neanderthals for instance taking care of their sick and wounded in ways where they would have died otherwise, without communal support.

Margaret "Mead said that the first evidence of civilization was a 15,000 years old fractured femur found in an archaeological site. A femur is the longest bone in the body, linking hip to knee. In societies without the benefits of modern medicine, it takes about six weeks of rest for a fractured femur to heal."

So the fact that this was a healed fracture, means someone fed this person for at least 6+ weeks (probably much longer), while they healed enough to help with hunting and gathering. Civilization and society began a long long time ago.

Certainly we are talking in generalizations and I am not an Anthropologist. Cultures will vary. I seem to recall that some Polynesian cultures were fairly unforgiving to those that seemed to have deficits or did not conform to the norm.

I can certainly see how extra effort may be afforded to comfort and support a well respected member of society if something befell them that left them less than capable of self-support, but for those who had trouble from the start, depending on group resources, I imagine there was less leeway in prehistoric cultures. Being prehistoric, however, it is really hard to know definitively. Most of our conceptions come from 18th and 19th century contact of Western explorers with then existent hunter/gatherer societies.

 

[robocop (actually)]

What does your religion say about helping those that are less fortunate than oneself?

Is it recommended that you give to another who is in need?

I ask because modern politics oft seems divided on helping the poor, or just pretending they don't exist or should go away.

According to the Havamal, we have these verses on helping and being kind to others:

2.
Hail, ye Givers! a guest is come;
say! where shall he sit within?
Much pressed is he who fain on the hearth
would seek for warmth and weal.

3.
He hath need of fire, who now is come,
numbed with cold to the knee;
food and clothing the wanderer craves
who has fared o'er the rimy fell.

4.
He craves for water, who comes for refreshment,
drying and friendly bidding,
marks of good will, fair fame if 'tis won,
and welcome once and again.

30.
Let no man be held as a laughing-stock,
though he come as guest for a meal:
wise enough seem many while they sit dry-skinned
and are not put to proof.


Be content with what you have:

36.
One's own house is best, though small it may be;
each man is master at home;
though he have but two goats and a bark-thatched hut
'tis better than craving a boon.

37.
One's own house is best, though small it may be,
each man is master at home;
with a bleeding heart will he beg, who must,
his meat at every meal.



In regards to handicaps/disability:
70.
More blest are the living than the lifeless,
'tis the living who come by the cow;
I saw the hearth-fire burn in the rich man's hall
and himself lying dead at the door.

71.
The lame can ride horse, the handless drive cattle,
the deaf one can fight and prevail,
'tis happier for the blind than for him on the bale-fire,
but no man hath care for a corpse.

-------

134.
I counsel thee, Stray-Singer, accept my counsels,
they will be thy boon if thou obey'st them,
they will work thy weal if thou win'st them:
growl not at guests, nor drive them from the gate
but show thyself gentle to the poor.

135.
Mighty is the bar to be moved away
for the entering in of all.
Shower thy wealth, or men shall wish thee
every ill in thy limbs.

Helping the Poor and Distressed (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Basically that it's our God given duty to care for the poor.

 

[The Hammer]

Have you ever lived in such a place?

Our lives in the modern world are vastly materially easier than the lives of people from millennia ago. We live longer. We are healthier. We don't work remotely as hard for the food we eat. Most of us virtually never experience actual hunger. Society's infrastructure provides a multitude of creature comforts and conveniences for us that folks living in pre-industrial societies could never dream of.

Not according to studies done on cultures that's still live as close to our ancestors as we can find.

We may be "medically" better. But that does not always equate to a better, healthier or longer life.

 

[The Hammer]

Most of our conceptions come from 18th and 19th century contact of Western explorers with then existent hunter/gatherer societies.

We are certainly limited in scope. I won't disagree.

But like the adage "the more things change, the more they remain the same", I don't think as much has changed as we actually think, besides the scale upon which we work.

 

[The Hammer]

Have you ever lived in such a place?

I would absolutely love to.

 

[MikeF]

We are certainly limited in scope. I won't disagree.

But like the adage "the more things change, the more they remain the same", I don't think as much has changed as we actually think, besides the scale upon which we work.

I agree, as at the core, we are and always have been human.

 

[Fool]

What does your religion say about helping those that are less fortunate than oneself?

Is it recommended that you give to another who is in need?

I ask because modern politics oft seems divided on helping the poor, or just pretending they don't exist or should go away.

According to the Havamal, we have these verses on helping and being kind to others:

2.
Hail, ye Givers! a guest is come;
say! where shall he sit within?
Much pressed is he who fain on the hearth
would seek for warmth and weal.

3.
He hath need of fire, who now is come,
numbed with cold to the knee;
food and clothing the wanderer craves
who has fared o'er the rimy fell.

4.
He craves for water, who comes for refreshment,
drying and friendly bidding,
marks of good will, fair fame if 'tis won,
and welcome once and again.

30.
Let no man be held as a laughing-stock,
though he come as guest for a meal:
wise enough seem many while they sit dry-skinned
and are not put to proof.


Be content with what you have:

36.
One's own house is best, though small it may be;
each man is master at home;
though he have but two goats and a bark-thatched hut
'tis better than craving a boon.

37.
One's own house is best, though small it may be,
each man is master at home;
with a bleeding heart will he beg, who must,
his meat at every meal.



In regards to handicaps/disability:
70.
More blest are the living than the lifeless,
'tis the living who come by the cow;
I saw the hearth-fire burn in the rich man's hall
and himself lying dead at the door.

71.
The lame can ride horse, the handless drive cattle,
the deaf one can fight and prevail,
'tis happier for the blind than for him on the bale-fire,
but no man hath care for a corpse.

-------

134.
I counsel thee, Stray-Singer, accept my counsels,
they will be thy boon if thou obey'st them,
they will work thy weal if thou win'st them:
growl not at guests, nor drive them from the gate
but show thyself gentle to the poor.

135.
Mighty is the bar to be moved away
for the entering in of all.
Shower thy wealth, or men shall wish thee
every ill in thy limbs.

I don't need a religion to realize the poor and disenfranchised have a need that I might be able to meet in some way.

Ramusa.org

 

[The Hammer]

I don't need a religion to know and help the poor and disenfranchised.

Ramusa.org

Agreed.

That doesn't mean it doesn't influence some person's reasoning for doing so or not.

 

[Left Coast]

Not according to studies done on cultures that's still live as close to our ancestors as we can find.

We may be "medically" better. But that does not always equate to a better, healthier or longer life.

These are people who live in tiny huts in the dirt with no running water or electricity and rub sticks together to make fire. Literally.

Sorry, you're not going to convince me that they live a higher quality of life than we do in the West. It's not even close.

 

[Left Coast]

I would absolutely love to.

More power to you!

 

[The Hammer]

These are people who live in tiny huts in the dirt with no running water or electricity and rub sticks together to make fire. Literally.

Sorry, you're not going to convince me that they live a higher quality of life than we do in the West. It's not even close.

Doesn't bother me any. Like I said. Based off of actual studies on how they lived, and we do. .

I'll take anything that is easier.

Their QoL isn't better/worse. It's just different

 

[The Hammer]

Progress or Poverty? The Dobe Ju|'hoansi

 

[Left Coast]

Progress or Poverty? The Dobe Ju|'hoansi

Sounds like they enjoy the benefits of technological advancement and infrastructure they've become exposed to. Good for them!

 

[The Hammer]

Sounds like they enjoy the benefits of technological advancement and infrastructure they've become exposed to. Good for them!

Don't we all.

They also did just as well without
As we would also do.