Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Human resources department of any society has the responsibility for the selection of their employees the Church has the right to set the requirements for membership to their society, how can gays prove their suitability?

The employees of a society need not be members of that society.

How many golf clubs prohibit non-members from working as groundskeepers or caddies?

 

[emiliano]

9-10ths Penguin this does not makes sense “Usually something like "I'm highly qualified and can do a very good job" Who judges this? The employer. Right?

Baloney. Their job is to represent the Catholic Church. That job ends at the end of the working day. Your way of thinking on this issue was generally abandoned decades ago.

Says who? The criteria is clear they hire practising Catholics, they set the requirement and have every right to do so.
Your comparison with a vegetarian organization is ignorant and had nothing to do with what the OP proposes for discussion, get back to the OP and you will get it.
It’s clearly stated: The right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions. You used the position of a cleaner in a vegetarian institution, what this got to do with the issue on discussion?
Although I think that the campaign should be focusing in establishing the rights of employers, consider that due to the political changes at present this will prevail the UK is in dare economical situation and this is only a bill and the parliament may not pass this one sided bill that ignores the rights of employers.

Do you think that the City of Toronto was justified in having this policy in place?

Well this is a hard one to answer because I don’t know the reasons that Toronto has for preventing it people from acquiring land outside their City I get that it was a political situation and they must have their reasons. What relation does this have to with the discussion of what the Pope directed Catholics to oppose.

No, they're not. "Being Catholic" is not a reasonable grounds for excluding someone from employment with a gay organization. By the same token, "being Catholic" is not a reasonable requirement for jobs with the Catholic Church.

There may be a limited number of positions within the Church where any valid applicant winds up being Catholic by default - e.g. priest: being ordained is a valid requirement for the position of priest, and it's impossible to be ordained without being Catholic.

However, this doesn't apply to other positions. Teachers, accountants, cleaners, air conditioning technicians, and lawyers (along with many other professions) can work for the Catholic Church and do just as good a job whether or not they're Catholics themselves

.
They are the employers in search of one specific type of person. A practicing Catholic, and I must bring what a said early this is a case in which is clearly said that is for a senior position in the Church.

 

[Panda]

emiliano do you think only the church should have the right to discriminate against gay people or should any organisation?

 

[emiliano]

emiliano do you think only the church should have the right to discriminate against gay people or should any organisation?

All employers or their representatives should have the right to set the criteria that an applicant must meet to be hire, they should set it an published it in their job’s contracts, non Catholic need not to apply. What the Church should do is train their own out of their seminaries, I remind you that the discussion centres around senior personal selection. As you well know people (Catholics) judges them by their example at all time, thy have to warm people of the damage their conduct can cause to their employer, the code of conduct of all professionals demands that they don’t bring their profession into disrepute.

 

[Smoke]

In this case the requirement is that they be Catholics.

Nonsense. Countless non-Catholics work for the Catholic Church and its various agencies and institutions. The requirement does not exist; you just made it up.

 

[Panda]

All employers or their representatives should have the right to set the criteria that an applicant must meet to be hire, they should set it an published it in their job’s contracts, non Catholic need not to apply. What the Church should do is train their own out of their seminaries, I remind you that the discussion centres around senior personal selection. As you well know people (Catholics) judges them by their example at all time, thy have to warm people of the damage their conduct can cause to their employer, the code of conduct of all professionals demands that they don’t bring their profession into disrepute.

So using that logic then it would be perfectly acceptable of me to start a business and refuse to employ any religious people, or any black people etc.

 

[emiliano]

Nonsense. Countless non-Catholics work for the Catholic Church and its various agencies and institutions. The requirement does not exist; you just made it up.

So the OP is a big lie, I am glad cause even though I am no longer a Catholic I am very fond of their teachings “The Pope has urged Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".I have suspicions as this came from the enemies of the Church and they are so incline to tell lies, thanks for the info!
I remain you that we a talking about seniors officials, but it seems that you know more on the subject. Do you think that one day we may homosexual bishops? Are the Epistles inspired? Are they part of the Bible?

 

[emiliano]

So using that logic then it would be perfectly acceptable of me to start a business and refuse to employ any religious people, or any black people etc.

Yes it would, all you have to do is set it in the criteria for selection. If you call for applications you must clearly state what are the requirements for success, who should apply, a job description, what type of people are you looking for and so on, it is your natural right to do so. It is your association/Institution. Even the commies came to the realisation that even in their utopia some are more equal than other and that the suitability of the applicants to senior positions must be judged by the authority.

 

[Panda]

Yes it would, all you have to do is set it in the criteria for selection. If you call for applications you must clearly state what are the requirements for success, who should apply, a job description, what type of people are you looking for and so on, it is your natural right to do so. It is your association/Institution. Even the commies came to the realisation that even in their utopia some are more equal than other and that the suitability of the applicants to senior positions must be judged by the authority.

Ok thanks nice to know you think that companies should be allowed to be racist, discriminatory, homophobic etc. I wonder if you would feel the same way if all companies refused to hire you because you were a Christian.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

9-10ths Penguin this does not makes sense “Usually something like "I'm highly qualified and can do a very good job" Who judges this? The employer. Right?

The employer doesn't have free reign to pick whatever criteria he wants, though. He's not allowed to make it a job requirement that a candidate has to be able to not call the Ministry of Labour about his unsafe workplace, for instance.

There are established qualifications for every profession; if you're hiring an accountant, say, then those criteria deal with professional skills, experience, education, and those sorts of things, not criteria unrelated to the job, like religion, skin colour or marital status.

Says who? The criteria is clear they hire practising Catholics, they set the requirement and have every right to do so.

If this legislation passes, then they won't have that right. And I think it's a welcome change; discrimination in employment is a bad thing, even when it's done by a church.

Your comparison with a vegetarian organization is ignorant and had nothing to do with what the OP proposes for discussion, get back to the OP and you will get it.
It’s clearly stated: The right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions. You used the position of a cleaner in a vegetarian institution, what this got to do with the issue on discussion?

Go back and read the OP yourself. The Church is opposing legislation to prevent discrimination at all levels. The issue of senior positions is only mentioned in one article that the OP links to, and not in the way you portray it - they mention that they're especially concerned about how this law would affect policies on senior staff, but they don't ever say that they have an inclusive hiring policy for more junior positions. In fact, one of the articles mentions that this new law would have an impact on the Church's hiring policies for teachers.

Although I think that the campaign should be focusing in establishing the rights of employers, consider that due to the political changes at present this will prevail the UK is in dare economical situation and this is only a bill and the parliament may not pass this one sided bill that ignores the rights of employers.

Exactly what economic harm would result from a law that requires employers to hire employees based on business-related reasons and not their own personal preferences?

The current economic situation makes the need for this bill even greater. When unemployment is high and jobs are hard to get, it's easier for employers to take advantage of employees. This law helps to prevent employers from abusing their position.

Well this is a hard one to answer because I don’t know the reasons that Toronto has for preventing it people from acquiring land outside their City I get that it was a political situation and they must have their reasons. What relation does this have to with the discussion of what the Pope directed Catholics to oppose.

They're two forms of the same thing: an employer trying to dictate what its employees do outside of work as some way to further their vision of how the world should be. The difference is that the City of Toronto woke up decades ago to the fact that this sort of policy is harmful and wrong.

They are the employers in search of one specific type of person. A practicing Catholic, and I must bring what a said early this is a case in which is clearly said that is for a senior position in the Church.

This was only clear in your mind, emiliano. The articles specifically mention that the Church is trying to defend its discriminatory hiring practices for more junior staff like teachers, and in any case, if the legislation they're opposing is defeated, this harms the rights of all employees and candidates, not just senior staff.

Yes it would, all you have to do is set it in the criteria for selection. If you call for applications you must clearly state what are the requirements for success, who should apply, a job description, what type of people are you looking for and so on, it is your natural right to do so. It is your association/Institution. Even the commies came to the realisation that even in their utopia some are more equal than other and that the suitability of the applicants to senior positions must be judged by the authority.

I'm sure every racist and bigot who owns a business thanks you for your support.

Is the concept of a social contract completely foreign to you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

All employers or their representatives should have the right to set the criteria that an applicant must meet to be hire, they should set it an published it in their job’s contracts,

And I am glad they don't. If it was legal to discriminate for hiring, then women, blacks, latinos, the elderly, and non-Christians would potentially have an major unemployment crisis, even after the job market recovers. That is why you will read on most applications and any labor law posters "federal law prohibits discrimination based on race, religion/creed, gender, age, and any other groups protected by law. The Vietnam war put veteran status on the protected list. If ENDA is passed, then sexual orientation and gender identity will be added to the list.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The Pope has become the new Jerry Falwell.

We can always count on him saying something stupid.

 

[Autodidact]

Why would a gay person want to get a job in Catholic institution?

(1) Isn't that up to them?
(2) Let's say you teach math in a Catholic school. Any reason your private life needs to impact on that? What if you're the custodian?

It seems that what this mean is that the British government is telling the Church who to hire. Is this right?

Well, it's telling them some reasons they can't use not to hire someone.

Does the Pope has a right to select the staff that they find suitable?

Yes.

All jobs have a criteria that applicants must meet. is their right as employer

So you oppose all anti-discrimination laws, or just this one?

 

[Autodidact]

Personally i think that the catholic church is the most corrupt organisation on this planet. Their record of human rights violations across the centuries is beyond reproach.

But not every single parish, church or whatever they call themselves is evil. If we as non-catholics want the church to keep out of our governments then how do we justify trying getting the government into the church.

I deplore their views on homosexuality, however it is their right to be bigoted wanktards.

You will see throughout my posts some very anti-religious sentiments but that does not mean i'm blinded by them.

-Q

It is their right to be bigoted wanktards. It is not their right to illegally discriminate.

 

[Smoke]

So the OP is a big lie, I am glad cause even though I am no longer a Catholic I am very fond of their teachings “The Pope has urged Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".I have suspicions as this came from the enemies of the Church and they are so incline to tell lies, thanks for the info!

No, the OP is accurate. The Catholic claim that they only hire people whose lives comport with the teachings of the Church is a big lie.

I remain you that we a talking about seniors officials, but it seems that you know more on the subject. Do you think that one day we may homosexual bishops?

Already do. They're just not open about it.

Are the Epistles inspired?

Of course not.

Are they part of the Bible?

Of course.

 

[emiliano]

No, the OP is accurate. The Catholic claim that they only hire people whose lives comport with the teachings of the Church is a big lie.

Already do. They're just not open about it.

Of course not.

Of course.

No, the OP is accurate. The Catholic claim that they only hire people whose lives comport with the teachings of the Church is a big lie.

This is strange and contradictory, the OP clearly states that that the Pope asked the faithful
“ Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal" What St. Paul wrote in his Epistles on the subject of immoral conduct is so clear and the Pope is also clear on his instruction “ "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions.
Already do. They're just not open about it.
This is not new Humans can deceive other human. Do you think that God can be deceive, what the requirement is, is that they don’t bring the church into disrepute by their conduct.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

It is their right to be bigoted wanktards. It is not their right to illegally discriminate.

This is their HOLY GROUND. As much as they are bigoted wanktards holy ground should be respected.

-Q

 

[Smoke]

This is strange and contradictory, the OP clearly states that that the Pope asked the faithful “ Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal" What St. Paul wrote in his Epistles on the subject of immoral conduct is so clear and the Pope is also clear on his instruction “ "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions.

Banning gay people from senior positions is not even a legitimate or honest concern. That's just typical Catholic dissembling. Senior positions in the Church are filled by clergy, and the government can't tell the Church whom to ordain. As for senior administrative positions in Catholic hospitals and so on, there's no legitimate reason to discriminate against gay people.

The Church employs Protestants, Jews, atheists, divorced and remarried people, unmarried heterosexuals living with partners, drunks, drug abusers, women who have had abortions, civil libertarians, people who don't believe in the Virgin Birth, people who don't believe in papal infallibility, Catholics who use birth control, Catholics who don't go to Confession, Catholics who don't go to Mass, and -- as we all know -- sexual predators. And the Church also employs gay people. They don't object to employing any of these people, but they do object to treating gay and transgender people -- and only gay and transgender people -- with equality and fairness.

To pretend that the payrolls of Catholic dioceses and institutions are filled with people who follow the teachings of the church, or that equal employment opportunity for gay people would somehow violate their heretofore unsullied Catholic conscience is a laughably transparent lie. Only the most shameless of liars would make such a ridiculous claim, and only the most hapless of fools would believe it.

 

[Smoke]

This is their HOLY GROUND. As much as they are bigoted wanktards holy ground should be respected.

Why's that?

 

[Panda]

This is their HOLY GROUND. As much as they are bigoted wanktards holy ground should be respected.

-Q

It is still under the jurisdiction of UK Law. Should you be allowed to murder someone in your home because it is "your ground"?