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Pope:"Creation vs. evolution an absurdity

godless87

New Member
well this was unexpected what do you all think


LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.
“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”
He said evolution did not answer all the questions: “Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, ‘Where does everything come from?’”
Benedict also said the human race must listen to “the voice of the Earth” or risk destroying its very existence.
The pope is wrapping up a three-week private holiday in the majestic mountains of northern Italy, where residents are alarmed by the prospect of climate change that can alter their way of life.
“We all see that today man can destroy the foundation of his existence, his Earth,” he said in a closed door meeting with 400 priests on Tuesday. A full transcript of the two-hour event was issued on Wednesday.
“We cannot simply do what we want with this Earth of ours, with what has been entrusted to us,” said the pope, who has been spending his time reading and walking in the scenic landscape bordering Austria.
Our Earth is talking to us
World religions have shown a growing interest in the environment, particularly the ramifications of climate change.The pope, leader of some 1.1 billion Roman Catholics worldwide, said: “We must respect the interior laws of creation, of this Earth, to learn these laws and obey them if we want to survive.”
“This obedience to the voice of the Earth is more important for our future happiness ... than the desires of the moment. Our Earth is talking to us and we must listen to it and decipher its message if we want to survive,” he said.
Last April, the Vatican sponsored a scientific conference on climate change to underscore the role that religious leaders around the world could play in reminding people that willfully damaging the environment is sinful.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
I think he's right. Catholics are certainly free to think that the earth is 6,000 years old but there has never been [and I doubt there ever will be] an official teaching on scientific matters within the walls of the Church. Creationism and Evolution certainly can co-exist. Given you understand what we mean by creationism.


Welcome to the forum. :)
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
i think this is a positive thing, and i hope the R.C. Church is going to be focusing more on climate change in the future.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
well this was unexpected what do you all think

Where's the surprise? Those of us whose churches pre-date the Reformation have always had this sort of an attitude to science. And when I say always, I mean it, many Church Fathers used the science of their day and didn't take Genesis absolutely literally, St. Basil the Great being a good example. Modern creationism is not the ancient teaching of the Church but a creation of literalist and inerrantist Protestants.

James
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Where's the surprise? Those of us whose churches pre-date the Reformation have always had this sort of an attitude to science. And when I say always, I mean it, many Church Fathers used the science of their day and didn't take Genesis absolutely literally, St. Basil the Great being a good example. Modern creationism is not the ancient teaching of the Church but a creation of literalist and inerrantist Protestants.
Excellent post.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think that it is more accurate to say that "Biblical Literalism and Evolution are at odds" than to say that "Creationism and Evolution are at odds"

While there is no evidence in favor of any supernatural guiding hand, nor any rational reason to believe in one, the theory of evolution, accepted by the overwhelming majority of experts in the field, does not discount, or even address any supernatural guidance. Evolutionary theory, however, does seem to preclude a literalist interpretation of the Bible which would lead to a Young Earth theory.

I think because many of the posters here grew up in America, lots of us in the Protestant/Evangelical South (I note a lot of fellow Texans on the board) then I think it is easy for us to get the idea that the Hellfire and Brimstone Biblical Literalist Young Earth Evangelical Christian types are the only types out there, and that kind of thinking certainly does set up, at least for me, an attitude that it is EITHER science OR religion, as in those circumstances the two do not appear to be compatible.

When one takes the view, that apparently the Orthodox, and at least some RC's take, that the bible doesn't have to be taken literally, then both science and religion can co-exist. But don't tell that to Galileo.

B.
 

kmkemp

Active Member
What verse, taken literally, would lead to a young Earth theory? I can't think of anything other than the word used for days that God supposedly created the Earth in. That is countered in other places where it explains God's conception of a "day" and His timelessness in eternity. So, the question becomes, do you mean "literalists who only consider one verse in isolation" or "people that take the Bible at its word"? I think there is a rather large difference.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
What verse, taken literally, would lead to a young Earth theory? I can't think of anything other than the word used for days that God supposedly created the Earth in. That is countered in other places where it explains God's conception of a "day" and His timelessness in eternity. So, the question becomes, do you mean "literalists who only consider one verse in isolation" or "people that take the Bible at its word"? I think there is a rather large difference.
What about genealogies? Do you take them literally?
 

kmkemp

Active Member
Genealogies were not recorded in the same manner as they are now. Because of that, we do not have a complete genealogy, nor one that pretends to be.
 

namguy

Member
I think he's right. Catholics are certainly free to think that the earth is 6,000 years old but there has never been [and I doubt there ever will be] an official teaching on scientific matters within the walls of the Church. Creationism and Evolution certainly can co-exist. Given you understand what we mean by creationism.


Welcome to the forum. :)

There're many condrictions in the Catholic Church, it's hard to make sense out of it.:run:
 

Random

Well-Known Member
They're not in the business of science.:run:

Really? You don't know the Church too well, do you? A Jesuit theologian could talk the pants off you all week long about any and all branches of science you wished to discuss...
 

namguy

Member
I think he's right. Catholics are certainly free to think that the earth is 6,000 years old but there has never been [and I doubt there ever will be] an official teaching on scientific matters within the walls of the Church. Creationism and Evolution certainly can co-exist. Given you understand what we mean by creationism.


Welcome to the forum. :)
No more than that.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
Really? You don't know the Church too well, do you? A Jesuit theologian could talk the pants off you all week long about any and all branches of science you wished to discuss...

So what, the Catholic church in general has been a major impediment to the advancement of science for the last 2 millinea.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
So what, the Catholic church in general has been a major impediment to the advancement of science for the last 2 millinea.
Perhaps, but this story is good news with the Pope saying that there is much scientific proof to support evolution. Here we see the Catholic Church supporting science. This is not the time to be criticizing them for past errors. This is the time to congratulate the Pope for being reasonable and clarifying the Church’s position.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
fantôme profane;894020 said:
Perhaps, but this story is good news with the Pope saying that there is much scientific proof to support evolution. Here we see the Catholic Church supporting science. This is not the time to be criticizing them for past errors. This is the time to congratulate the Pope for being reasonable and clarifying the Church’s position.

So the Catholic church is absolved of all its past "sins" because this pope has a little common sense?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
not just this pope, but the past one as well. (perhaps more than that I'm not sure, I'm not Catholic.)
Should you keep a grudge over the actions of people over 400 years ago?
The Catholics today arn't the same people they were back in the day you know.
Doesn't seem very rational to hold such a longterm grudge; give them the credit for being able to recconsile thier faith and science.
Its apparently a difficult thing to do.

wa:do
 
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