• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Pope Francis calls tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin'

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
From earlier this month:

Pope Francis calls tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' | Daily Mail Online


Pope Francis has called tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' before telling a conference at the Vatican the 'rich world can and must end poverty'.

At a seminar on economic inclusion hosted by the Church on Wednesday, Francis insisted that poverty could be beaten if the world's rich play a full part in ending inequality.

The actual address in full (it can be read in English, top far left) here:


Discurso del Santo Padre con ocasión de la Conferencia "Nuevas formas de solidaridad", organizada por la Pontificia Academia de las Ciencias Sociales (5 de febrero de 2020) | Francisco


Relevant excerpts:


I would like to start with a factual fact. The world is rich and yet the poor increase around us. According to official reports, this year’s global income will be almost $ 12,000 per capita. However, hundreds of millions of people are still mired in extreme poverty and lack food, housing, medical care, schools, electricity, drinking water and adequate and indispensable sanitation services. It is estimated that approximately five million children under 5 this year will die from poverty. Another 260 million children, will lack education due to lack of resources, due to wars and migrations. This in a rich world, because the world is rich.

If there is extreme poverty in the midst of wealth - also extreme wealth - it is because we have allowed the gap to widen to become the largest in history. These are almost official data: the 50 richest people in the world have an equity equivalent to 2.2 billion dollars. Those fifty people alone could finance the medical care and education of every poor child in the world, whether through taxes, philanthropic initiatives or both. Those fifty people could save millions of lives every year.

The main message of hope that I want to share with you is precisely this: these are solvable problems and not lack of resources. There is no determinism that condemns us to universal inequity. Let me repeat: we are not doomed to universal inequity.

Sin structures today include repeated tax cuts for the richest people, often justified in the name of investment and development; tax havens for private and corporate profits; and, of course, the possibility of corruption by some of the largest companies in the world, not a few times in tune with some ruling political sector.

Every year hundreds of billions of dollars, which should be paid in taxes to fund health care and education, accumulate in tax haven accounts, thus impeding the possibility of the dignified and sustained development of all social agents

In this context where the development of some social and financial sectors reached levels never seen before, how important it is to remember the words of the Gospel of Luke: “To him who is given much, much will be demanded” (12,48). How inspiring it is to listen to St. Ambrose, who thinks with the Gospel: «You [rich] do not give your thing to the poor, but you are giving him what is his. Well, the common property given in use for all, you are using by yourself »( Naboth 12,53). This is the principle of the universal destiny of goods, the basis of economic and social justice, as well as the common good.
 
Last edited:

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
The usual suspects were out in force, in response to his address, as per the established norm over the past 7 years :rolleyes:


Pope Francis and the Rich - Econlib


That the Pope disapproves of tax cuts to “the rich” is hardly news. Ever since ascending to the Holy See, Francis has invested time and effort in placing himself, so to say, firmly on the left.

In this last case, the use of the words “structure of sin” is quite disturbing. The Pope is entering the public debate and a quintessential political discussion: how much should be paid and by whom? He does so using his own vocabulary (he speaks of “sin”, not of unwise decisions or dangerous consequences) and clearly draws a line that divides good from evil. The temptation to read his words as a moral indictment of people who support tax cuts for the rich, or for businesses, will be hard to resist. In a sense, such a statement reminds of Francis describing it “an honor” to be “attacked” by American right-wingers. Two cheers for the Pope’s combative spirit, but I suspect many an American Catholic was troubled, if not outraged, by such blunt words.


The Gospel of Socialism? Pope Francis Decries Tax Cuts for the Wealthy as Sinful

More Economic Illiteracy from Pope Francis


Back in 2013, I talked to the BBC about Pope Francis and his bizarre hostility to free enterprise.

For instance, he’s once again advertising his ignorance about economics, development, and fiscal policy, as RT reports:

...

Wow. Sounds more like Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez rather than a religious leader.

Libertarian Jesus must be very disappointed.

What a penetrating and incisive analysis of the pope's speech! o_O I'm curious, what might he expect religious leaders to 'sound like' and say?

No prizes for guessing the 'suspects' in question all happen to be Right-wing Americans. Quelle surprise!
 
Last edited:

Flame

Beware
I'll be interested once its coming from a man who isn't the leader of one of the most corrupt and money grubbing organizations in the world.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
I'll be interested once its coming from a man who isn't the leader of one of the most corrupt and money grubbing organizations in the world.

Your justifiable misgivings about the Catholic Church as an institution do not, in the slightest, invalidate the truth of what he is saying.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
Hard for anyone, especially a Christian, to argue with his point. You cannot love God or love your neighbor if your first love is a visible symbol of accumulation beyond need.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Hard for anyone, especially a Christian, to argue with his point. You cannot love God or love your neighbor if your first love is a visible symbol of accumulation beyond need.

You are talking about the Catholic Church? Right?
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From earlier this month:

Pope Francis calls tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' | Daily Mail Online


Pope Francis has called tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' before telling a conference at the Vatican the 'rich world can and must end poverty'.

At a seminar on economic inclusion hosted by the Church on Wednesday, Francis insisted that poverty could be beaten if the world's rich play a full part in ending inequality.

The actual address in full (it can be read in English, top far left) here:


Discurso del Santo Padre con ocasión de la Conferencia "Nuevas formas de solidaridad", organizada por la Pontificia Academia de las Ciencias Sociales (5 de febrero de 2020) | Francisco


Relevant excerpts:


I would like to start with a factual fact. The world is rich and yet the poor increase around us. According to official reports, this year’s global income will be almost $ 12,000 per capita. However, hundreds of millions of people are still mired in extreme poverty and lack food, housing, medical care, schools, electricity, drinking water and adequate and indispensable sanitation services. It is estimated that approximately five million children under 5 this year will die from poverty. Another 260 million children, will lack education due to lack of resources, due to wars and migrations. This in a rich world, because the world is rich.

If there is extreme poverty in the midst of wealth - also extreme wealth - it is because we have allowed the gap to widen to become the largest in history. These are almost official data: the 50 richest people in the world have an equity equivalent to 2.2 billion dollars. Those fifty people alone could finance the medical care and education of every poor child in the world, whether through taxes, philanthropic initiatives or both. Those fifty people could save millions of lives every year.

The main message of hope that I want to share with you is precisely this: these are solvable problems and not lack of resources. There is no determinism that condemns us to universal inequity. Let me repeat: we are not doomed to universal inequity.

Sin structures today include repeated tax cuts for the richest people, often justified in the name of investment and development; tax havens for private and corporate profits; and, of course, the possibility of corruption by some of the largest companies in the world, not a few times in tune with some ruling political sector.

Every year hundreds of billions of dollars, which should be paid in taxes to fund health care and education, accumulate in tax haven accounts, thus impeding the possibility of the dignified and sustained development of all social agents

In this context where the development of some social and financial sectors reached levels never seen before, how important it is to remember the words of the Gospel of Luke: “To him who is given much, much will be demanded” (12,48). How inspiring it is to listen to St. Ambrose, who thinks with the Gospel: «You [rich] do not give your thing to the poor, but you are giving him what is his. Well, the common property given in use for all, you are using by yourself »( Naboth 12,53). This is the principle of the universal destiny of goods, the basis of economic and social justice, as well as the common good.
I’m not knowledgeable about economics, but my intuitive feeling is that the Pope is correct on this.

However I tend to think that the poor share some responsibility not to overburden the world’s resources and wealth through over breeding, and I suspect that the Pope doesn’t do much to acknowledge the desirability of family planning.
 

Maximus

the Confessor
From earlier this month:

Pope Francis calls tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' | Daily Mail Online


Pope Francis has called tax cuts for the wealthy a 'structure of sin' before telling a conference at the Vatican the 'rich world can and must end poverty'.

At a seminar on economic inclusion hosted by the Church on Wednesday, Francis insisted that poverty could be beaten if the world's rich play a full part in ending inequality.

The actual address in full (it can be read in English, top far left) here:


Discurso del Santo Padre con ocasión de la Conferencia "Nuevas formas de solidaridad", organizada por la Pontificia Academia de las Ciencias Sociales (5 de febrero de 2020) | Francisco


Relevant excerpts:


I would like to start with a factual fact. The world is rich and yet the poor increase around us. According to official reports, this year’s global income will be almost $ 12,000 per capita. However, hundreds of millions of people are still mired in extreme poverty and lack food, housing, medical care, schools, electricity, drinking water and adequate and indispensable sanitation services. It is estimated that approximately five million children under 5 this year will die from poverty. Another 260 million children, will lack education due to lack of resources, due to wars and migrations. This in a rich world, because the world is rich.

If there is extreme poverty in the midst of wealth - also extreme wealth - it is because we have allowed the gap to widen to become the largest in history. These are almost official data: the 50 richest people in the world have an equity equivalent to 2.2 billion dollars. Those fifty people alone could finance the medical care and education of every poor child in the world, whether through taxes, philanthropic initiatives or both. Those fifty people could save millions of lives every year.

The main message of hope that I want to share with you is precisely this: these are solvable problems and not lack of resources. There is no determinism that condemns us to universal inequity. Let me repeat: we are not doomed to universal inequity.

Sin structures today include repeated tax cuts for the richest people, often justified in the name of investment and development; tax havens for private and corporate profits; and, of course, the possibility of corruption by some of the largest companies in the world, not a few times in tune with some ruling political sector.

Every year hundreds of billions of dollars, which should be paid in taxes to fund health care and education, accumulate in tax haven accounts, thus impeding the possibility of the dignified and sustained development of all social agents

In this context where the development of some social and financial sectors reached levels never seen before, how important it is to remember the words of the Gospel of Luke: “To him who is given much, much will be demanded” (12,48). How inspiring it is to listen to St. Ambrose, who thinks with the Gospel: «You [rich] do not give your thing to the poor, but you are giving him what is his. Well, the common property given in use for all, you are using by yourself »( Naboth 12,53). This is the principle of the universal destiny of goods, the basis of economic and social justice, as well as the common good.

God bless the Pope.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I’m not knowledgeable about economics, but my intuitive feeling is that the Pope is correct on this.

However I tend to think that the poor share some responsibility not to overburden the world’s resources and wealth through over breeding, and I suspect that the Pope doesn’t do much to acknowledge the desirability of family planning.
The poor don't tend to have much access to family planning resources and there are cultural factors to keep in mind, too.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You are talking about the Catholic Church? Right?
The Pope.....lecturing us on sin & how to run an economy.
Reminds me of McCoy's quote in Friday's Child....
"What the Klingon has said is unimportant, and we do not hear his words."
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It does when he is the leader of the organization. Once he makes substantial changes to church policy than I'll take him more serious.

Logic is logic, and logic does not necessitate the notion the Pope is wrong simply because of the nature of the organization he leads. But you're welcome to your own opinion. Just don't call your views logical. They are not.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
......................................... I tend to think that the poor share some responsibility not to overburden the world’s resources and wealth through over breeding,.....................

How about legislation to force all males earning less than the average wage or with few qualifications to have vasectomies ?

That'll do it. !!
Good morning ......... Mr Youngbadger? Right, I have a warrant to bring you in to be snipped, 'cos you're thick and earn snuff all at road sweepin'.

Actually I got snipped at 29yrs, 'cos my wife could not have physically healthy children (or so they told us) and she had already been traumatised in two hospital 'stays'.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How about legislation to force all males earning less than the average wage or with few qualifications to have vasectomies ?

That'll do it. !!
Good morning ......... Mr Youngbadger? Right, I have a warrant to bring you in to be snipped, 'cos you're thick and earn snuff all at road sweepin'.

Actually I got snipped at 29yrs, 'cos my wife could not have physically healthy children (or so they told us) and she had already been traumatised in two hospital 'stays'.
I tend to think legislation is unnecessary, universal education will solve this problem as it spreads through the world.
 
Top