"Pornography: A Christian crisis or overblown issue?"

[Covellite]

Another problem with pornography is what kind of sexual behavior it promotes. And, what it promotes it is usually already wide spread kind of behavior, so it's getting more and more normal and more acceptable, even necessary if you want to be a cool guy.
Watching naked bodies and watching contemporary style porn like - "sex parties of all kinds" (you have the Internet, google it, if you want) is not the same. Some or even most especially young people are pushed to do things they are new ways of sexual behavior.
When I was a teen, what I could see in porn magazines is more like middle-age poetry comparing to what is in the market today.

 

[Thanda]

I wasn't saying anyone who is against a thing secretly wants to do it. I was only referring to people who describe a specific "sin" as a "singular greatest threat", above and beyond all others, as in this case.

I hear you. But even then it is quite an assumption to make. The porn industry has exploded, and so while I may not agree that it is the biggest threat to the church, it isn't a completely crazy idea to think that it is.

Remember that infidelity is one of the leading causes of divorce. And more than that a lack of commitment to the marriage is also cited as the leading cause of divorce. It is not hard to see how pornography can exasperate these two phenomena. Then factor in that most societal ills are perpetuated by people from broken homes and it begins to be clear why some might think pornography is such a major problem.

 

[Thanda]

Another problem with pornography is what kind of sexual behavior it promotes. And, what it promotes it is usually already wide spread kind of behavior, so it's getting more and more normal and more acceptable, even necessary if you want to be a cool guy.
Watching naked bodies and watching contemporary style porn like - "sex parties of all kinds" (you have the Internet, google it, if you want) is not the same. Some or even most especially young people are pushed to do things they are new ways of sexual behavior.

It also makes sex the focal point of people's lives. There's so much more to a human being than sex. So much more to achieve in life than having the most sex you can possibly get.

It isn't about suppressing sex or making it dirty. It is about helping people understand that life does not revolve around what is between their legs. Look at what we have come to, there is hardly anything people are sold these days without selling sex. "Get this car and you'll get a girl like this", "Get this hair shampoo and this guy will like you". It has even pervaded kids programs as well. It is ridiculous and unnecessary. It is taking one aspect of human nature and making it pervade our entire lives.

We have come to a point in our societies where it seems like we worship sex. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

 

[wizanda]

Do you suppose children born out of wedlock, even today, have upbringings just as good as those born in it?

Children raised in a good marriage partially functions; yet there seems to be more faulty marriages, than good, and then divorces lead to children not having any proper parenting.

Marriage isn't necessarily what God designed, we see most mammals living in communities, which leads to more balanced parenting.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that part of the problem here is the sciences have not yet reached much consensus on the effects pornography might or might not have on us. There is much speculation -- often enough based on logic -- that porn either harms or does not harm us, but the speculation, pro or con, has yet to be confirmed or disconfirmed by a weight of empirical evidence. At least, that's my understanding of it.

 

[Skwim]

Another problem with pornography is what kind of sexual behavior it promotes. And, what it promotes it is usually already wide spread kind of behavior, so it's getting more and more normal and more acceptable, even necessary if you want to be a cool guy.

Just what sexual behavior are you talking about?

Watching naked bodies and watching contemporary style porn like - "sex parties of all kinds" (you have the Internet, google it, if you want) is not the same.

Okay, but what's your point?

Some or even most especially young people are pushed to do things they are new ways of sexual behavior.

Not sure what kind of pushing you're talking about, but are you saying these "new ways" are bad? If so, why?

 

[Erebus]

My sympathies to those of you in England who find some of your porn now banned.

It's an interesting situation. The conservatives are mainly the ones pushing for bans on various forms of pornography. They're the ones who tend to be more likely to argue for "Christian values." It's also the conservatives who tend to get slammed with allegations of child sexual abuse.

Now, I'm not saying how much you should read into that.

I just thought it was an interesting observation.

 

[Sunstone]

It also makes sex the focal point of people's lives. There's so much more to a human being than sex. So much more to achieve in life than having the most sex you can possibly get.

It isn't about suppressing sex or making it dirty. It is about helping people understand that life does not revolve around what is between their legs. Look at what we have come to, there is hardly anything people are sold these days without selling sex. "Get this car and you'll get a girl like this", "Get this hair shampoo and this guy will like you". It has even pervaded kids programs as well. It is ridiculous and unnecessary. It is taking one aspect of human nature and making it pervade our entire lives.

We have come to a point in our societies where it seems like we worship sex. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

Although we're probably coming from different premises, I tend to agree with you that we've become a highly sexualized society. Where the science is most clear about the ill effects of this is in the sexualization of young girls and women. You might want to check out the "Report of the APA's Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls."

 

[Thanda]

Children raised in a good marriage partially functions; yet there seems to be more faulty marriages, than good, and then divorces lead to children not having any proper parenting.

Marriage isn't necessarily what God designed, we see most mammals living in communities, which leads to more balanced parenting.

My opinion is that it is what God designed for man. And the fact that some marriages break is all the more reason we should fight those things that lead to them breaking.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The problem I see with pornography isn't porn itself. It's the objectification, sexism, racism, abuse, etc. that is rife in the pornography industry, which tends to be pretty disgusting and generally dehumanizing. Just look at the recent controversy over the popular porn star, James Deen, sparked off by female porn star, Stoya. and a number of other female porn stars bringing to light allegations of rape and other forms of abuse. This is a common thing in the porn industry. This is more of a reflection of our own broken society and capitalist profit seeking rather than pornography itself, however. Merely having sex on camera or taking sexual pictures, etc. is not the problem, but the context of it can be a problem.

However, the conservative religious view of it is not helpful. Demonizing human sexual desires is part of the problem.

 

[Skwim]

It seems to me that part of the problem here is the sciences have not yet reached much consensus on the effects pornography might or might not have on us. There is much speculation -- often enough based on logic -- that porn either harms or does not harm us, but the speculation, pro or con, has yet to be confirmed or disconfirmed by a weight of empirical evidence. At least, that's my understanding of it.

And even in the light of any scientific findings it's almost a sure bet that religions, particularly the more conservative species, aren't going to change their attitude toward porn. Conservative Christians almost require an opponent to rile against in order to survive, and as you said, 'fundamentalists tend to take on causes that don't bite back."

 

[Sunstone]

And even in the light of any scientific findings it's almost a sure bet that religions, particularly the more conservative species, aren't going to change their attitude toward porn. Conservative Christians almost require an opponent to rile against in order to survive, and as you said, 'fundamentalists tend to take on causes that don't bite back."

I'd bet my money -- if I had any -- that you'd be right. If the sciences came down tomorrow on the side that porn was purely harmless (a finding that would surprise me, by the way: See Saint Frank's post above), I would be astonished if our fundamentalists recognized the findings.

 

[Covellite]

Just what sexual behavior are you talking about?

dehumanizing mostly

Okay, but what's your point?

It is a really big problem now, not so big as before.

Not sure what kind of pushing you're talking about, but are you saying these "new ways" are bad? If so, why?

If young person don't want to be rejected and ashamed he/she has to be involved in "certain" activities... really don't feel comfortable to explain, but heard the story from my friend who has three teenage sons and they are rich...

 

[Skwim]

The problem I see with pornography isn't porn itself. It's the objectification, sexism, racism, abuse, etc. that is rife in the pornography industry, which tends to be pretty disgusting and generally dehumanizing.

Boy, you're much closer to the porn industry than I would have imagined.

Just look at the recent controversy over the popular porn star, James Deen, sparked off by female porn star, Stoya. and a number of other female porn stars bringing to light allegations of rape and other forms of abuse.

I, for one, am not familiar with this at all.

This is a common thing in the porn industry.

As it is in other enterprises. The Catholic church to name one.

This is more of a reflection of our own broken society and capitalist profit seeking rather than pornography itself, however. Merely having sex on camera or taking sexual pictures, etc. is not the problem, but the context of it can be a problem.

Not trying to justify these industry practices at all, but abuses in other occupations also go on day in and day out.

 

[Skwim]

dehumanizing mostly

Boy, that takes in a lot of acreage. Care to be more specific?

It is a really big problem now, not so big as before.

And what do you see as the problem?

If young person don't want to be rejected and ashamed he/she has to be involved in "certain" activities... really don't feel comfortable to explain, but heard the story from my friend who has three teenage sons and they are rich...

Peer pressure is nothing new, and can arise in any aspect of teen interaction. That it happens within a sexual context is pretty much expected.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Boy,you're much closer to the porn industry than I would have imagined.

I, for one, am not familiar with this at all.

Well, this is the Internet. It doesn't take much to look into things. I know about a lot of unsavory aspects of society.

As it is in other enterprises. The Catholic church to name one.

Not trying to justify these industry practices at all, but abuses in other occupations also go on day in and day out.

And?

 

[Thanda]

Peer pressure is nothing new, and can arise in any aspect of teen interaction. That it happens within a sexual context is pretty much expected.

Does it being expected somehow make it okay? Is the fact that it is expected for children in Cape Town to be part of / join a gang a reason for us to be as disinterested as you seem to be?

 

[Covellite]

Care to be more specific?

No. Sorry, just don't feel like going into explanation.

And what do you see as the problem?

Yes. 30 y.a. it was mostly romantic sex between loving sexy couple. Now it is mostly dehumanizing, as I said before. Not a trace of love...

Peer pressure is nothing new, and can arise in any aspect of teen interaction. That it happens within a sexual context is pretty much expected

It's getting more serious. Also, very bad for both, mental and physical health.

 

[Skwim]

And?

You're right, there was no significant point to my remark.

Does it being expected somehow make it okay?

Of course not, but putting it in context goes a ways in explaining it.

 

[Thanda]

Of course not, but putting it in context goes a ways in explaining it.

So what is it that you are trying to explain?