Positive conservative views on "single payer" health care

[Revoltingest]

So you want Medicare for all. Which part A or B? How much do you want to pay for part A? Part B?
Are you going to make everyone pay up to 10 years of Medicare premiums to be eligible for part B?
Are you going to charge for Medicare Part B? How much?
Seems you want something but you do not say how you are going to pay for it. You do realize that it will cost $1.4 trillion ($1,400,000,000,000) a year. Source

I calculate that this works out to be about $4300/person in a country of 326 million people.
Considering the 2017 budget....
$1.4 trillion exceeds the entire discretionary spending budget of $1.2 trillion.
("Defense" is about half of this $1.2T.)
But in 2016, health care cost Americastan $3.3 trillion.
This is a potential savings of about $2 trillion.
Of course, private care would still be needed because...you know...government care.
It would be rationed or delayed or restricted such that people would still want services
outside of the single payer system.

Ref....
The Federal Budget in 2017: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office
Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Would it stop rapid cost inflation?
It hasn't in Canuckistan.
Ref....
Healthcare in Canada - Wikipedia
Moreover, our northern neighbors still buy health care insurance.
Ref....
Private Health Insurance Coverage In Canada Needs A Review

So who knows if single payer would save us money.
Or if reduced drug prices would curb research on new ones.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Massive waste. Half the drugs and equipment are discarded, unused:
What Hospitals Waste — ProPublica

Healthcare executives rake in huge salaries:
'Obscene': 70 Top Healthcare CEOs Raked in $9.8 Billion Since 2010

High prices on everything:
Sky-high prices of everything make US healthcare the world's most expensive

There you go. It's really a systemic problem, not an insurance problem.

If people want affordable healthcare reign those people in.

 

[Twilight Hue]

To blame Republicans is to miss the larger point, ie,
the fed gov (to use a recently popular metaphor) is
a monkey ****ing a football. And Obama managed
to sabotage his own program on his own too.

I still think if Obama pushed for a Canadian style Healthcare system, all or bust, he would have been looked upon a lot more favorably across the board.

 

[sun rise]

What’s your distinction between “must use” and “everyone can use”?

Are you basically just saying that private insurance and and private hospitals can still exist for those who want to pay more?

Are there any national socialized healthcare programs that don’t allow that option?

Must use is socialized medicine where the government employs all doctors and owns all hospitals. Everyone can use allows for a private option for those that want it.

I don't know if there are any systems that don't allow private care offhand. But personally I want the choice and the extra competition that would result.

 

[sun rise]

So you want Medicare for all. Which part A or B? How much do you want to pay for part A? Part B?
Are you going to make everyone pay up to 10 years of Medicare premiums to be eligible for part B?
Are you going to charge for Medicare Part B? How much?
Seems you want something but you do not say how you are going to pay for it. You do realize that it will cost $1.4 trillion ($1,400,000,000,000) a year. Source

Medicare has much less overhead than the private sector.

The current system is an utter failure when it comes to controlling costs and way behind other nations when it comes to best outcomes for the majority.

We must stop the insane escalation of health care costs and other nations do it much better. And American business is suffering competitively for providing health care for employees.

I'm right now a fan of the mixed Swiss system even though costs are higher there they are much less, I think 50%, of the USA.

We as a nation have not gone beyond whining when it comes to costs and outcomes. We need to have a serious debate for alternatives.

 

[sun rise]

So who knows if single payer would save us money.

Compare that to the USA.

So who knows if single payer would save us money.

We need to have a serious, fact based, discussion.

 

[Revoltingest]

I still think if Obama pushed for a Canadian style Healthcare system, all or bust, he would have been looked upon a lot more favorably across the board.

I don't think so.
It would appear too radical a change.

 

[Revoltingest]

Compare that to the USA.
We need to have a serious, fact based, discussion.

I started, with real numbers even.
You may continue.
I'd like to know the total health care cost for Canuckistanians,
including both taxpayer & privately funded portions.
(I didn't get that far.)
And then we could compare the same for Americastanians.

 

[Shad]

I still think if Obama pushed for a Canadian style Healthcare system, all or bust, he would have been looked upon a lot more favorably across the board.

Such a change wouldn't work. There are a lot of facts about the Canadian system never discussed. A lot of issues are unknown outside of Canada. Such a change would have required nationalization of private hospitals which would be a problem for many in principle let alone method used. Private hospitals do not exist here. Few procedures can be legally done outside HC. The short term issues would have been political point hammered into the ground regardless of long term projections.

 

[sun rise]

I started, with real numbers even.
You may continue.
I'd like to know the total health care cost for Canuckistanians,
including both taxpayer & privately funded portions.
(I didn't get that far.)
And then we could compare the same for Americastanians.

Google is your friend Comparison of the healthcare systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia

 

[Falvlun]

Must use is socialized medicine where the government employs all doctors and owns all hospitals. Everyone can use allows for a private option for those that want it.

I don't know if there are any systems that don't allow private care offhand. But personally I want the choice and the extra competition that would result.

I don’t think there are any healthcare models that disallow private insurance or providers. Even the UK, with the most government-centric form of socialized healthcare, allows private insurances and practices.

Here’s an article explaining the 4 main healthcare models around the world.

Your distinction isn’t a particularly descriptive one when determining which sort of system you prefer. More helpful would be whether you’d prefer a single government entity providing payments, from taxes, to public providers (the Beveridge model, ala the UK), a strictly controlled and universal private insurance model, financed through payroll taxes (the Bismarck model, ala Germany), or a single government insurance model, financed through taxes, with private providers (national health insurance, ala Canada).

 

[sun rise]

I don’t think there are any healthcare models that disallow private insurance or providers. Even the UK, with the most government-centric form of socialized healthcare, allows private insurances and practices.

Here’s an article explaining the 4 main healthcare models around the world.

Your distinction isn’t a particularly descriptive one when determining which sort of system you prefer. More helpful would be whether you’d prefer a single government entity providing payments, from taxes, to public providers (the Beveridge model, ala the UK), a strictly controlled and universal private insurance model, financed through payroll taxes (the Bismarck model, ala Germany), or a single government insurance model, financed through taxes, with private providers (national health insurance, ala Canada).

That's a very informative discussion.

I don't know enough to have a firm opinion which I'd prefer outside of knowing that the US system is the worst possible one. I suspect I'd be happy with any other system that could get enacted without the terrible fight we saw when President Obama tried to get a national version of Romneycare passed and the subsequent attempts to destroy it.

 

[SomeRandom]

What a horrible thought....my federal taxes lining the pockets of homeopaths & bone crackers.
Now, for your enjoyment....

I don't think our taxes pay for our private health here. Not sure though but I'm pretty sure it's just for public health lol

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think our taxes pay for our private health here. Not sure though but I'm pretty sure it's just for public health lol

I spoke of a proposed single payer system.

 

[SomeRandom]

I spoke of a proposed single payer system.

Oh. What would work in America?

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh. What would work in America?

I figure a single payer system, which still allows
private sector service would work best for us.

 

[sun rise]

Actually rather than focus on who pays as the answer, what I'd like to see is:

• Force providers to set prices just like other vendors do. If I get a fixed price bid to remodel my house, fix my car etc, it's a fixed price bid. That should apply to medical providers with a fixed price for common procedures like knee replacements etc.
• Reward outcomes, not tests.
  
• Allow the government to negotiate drug prices.
• Allow everyone to buy Medicare insurance with prices set at the cost of providing insurance. In other words people pay according to underwriter principles not through taxes. And those that want another health insurance provider have complete ability to choose that provider.

 

[Shad]

Google is your friend Comparison of the healthcare systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia

View attachment 23500

It's around 6.5k (Canadian dollar) per Canadian not just adults. It costs about 11% of our GDP or $242 billion. Also that is with massive budget cuts, closed facilities (have fun outside a city), doctor shortages especially specialists (again have fun outside a city), understaffed facilitates (in cities). You are using misinformation about a system I doubt you use or have much more than passing knowledge of probably from pro-HC media. Also government and HC want to increase the budget to meet needs which is not in your little graph. So tax increases.

I could tell you stories about how poor the system is here if you want. Quality drops with a single payer system.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is time to end our health care nightmare. If you are wealthy or even upper middle class health care is not a problem. And if you are at the very bottom people simply go and do not pay. It still happens today. It is the people in the lower middle that are getting screwed royally today. And when people talk about health care being "rationed" it already is through insurance. Insurance companies will not cover every cure. They limit what they will cover and put us on a de facto rationing if not de jure. Lastly we do not have privately owned roads. We do not have privately owned armies. Most schooling is not private either. There are jobs that the government can do better than the individual and in this day and age paying for medicine appears to be one of them. Just for fun look at the extremely outrageous billing that there is at a hospital. That insanity alone is enough to tell us that our present system needs to end.

 

[Shad]

I don’t think there are any healthcare models that disallow private insurance or providers. Even the UK, with the most government-centric form of socialized healthcare, allows private insurances and practices.

The UK system is not the most government-centric form of HC, it's Canada's. I wish I had the UK system here.