Can you, do you wish to elaborate? I don't think I know what's troubling you in this. Do you feel your bhakti is stronger than someone else's? Because if so, I have a little story...
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Possessiveness about one's deity
- Thread starter Viraja
- Start date
Can you, do you wish to elaborate? I don't think I know what's troubling you in this. Do you feel your bhakti is stronger than someone else's? Because if so, I have a little story...
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
Usually some orthodox and conservative Hindus of one sect feel that others' worship is incorrect/insufficient and spread messages that sound like preaching.
My question is dealing more with the need for acknowledgement (of one's bhakti) and jealousy (of someone else's superior devotion) , both tainting one's bhakti. I am, for one, whose bhakti is tainted by both these flaws to some extent, and I am looking for a way out.
Yes, from time to time, we encounter people who will tell us what to do and what not to do - my question is 'what to do?'.
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
Can you, do you wish to elaborate? I don't think I know what's troubling you in this. Do you feel your bhakti is stronger than someone else's? Because if so, I have a little story...
Like for example, if I see another superior Rama bhakta, I feel slightly jealous... not that they should not have the devotion, but I have a need that everyone should acknowledge mine as the most superior.
I would be more than happy to listen to your little story.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Woah, there, homie! That's a little too overboard. Usually I go a little bonkers when it comes to debates about Shruti and Smriti (I'll grant chu dat), but even I don't think that a Krishna Bhakta that never conducts a fire yajna and goes around saying Hare Krishna non-stop is inferior to me...
Do you feel as if your way of offering prayers (oblations, laudations, sādhanā, etc.) should be followed by other Krishna Bhaktas? And, if they do not, your way of worshipping Lord Shri Krishna is felt threatened or is subjected to a loss of foundation?
EDIT: Have you encountered these feelings from a Mandir you may have recently visited?
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
मैत्रावरुणिः;3450883 said:
No, no, MV! My feelings have got nothing to do with perceiving something wrong with others' devotion, and I do not feel any jealousy (like towards the priest, lol) in a temple situation.
Upon 1-on-1 with a good devotee in a public situation, I have slight tendencies of competitiveness and jealousy.
That is why I posted this question. And all of you answered you do not feel that kind of possessiveness, which is a great quality.
Next time I feel the same, I will think of you all.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Here are two people:
1. This person is full of righteousness and all that other jazz.
2. This person is well versed in the scriptures and pretty much knows everything about Hinduism and all that other jazz but isn't so dharmic.
- - - - - - - - -
It seems that Lord Shri Krishna will go with person #1.
- - - - - - - - -
It reminds of those people that dictate to other Hindus what they should do and how they should implement their doings; but these people dictating never have any dreams of the Shri Gods, while, on the other hand, those that approach the Shri Gods with pure devotion can't get enough of dreams that show Lord Shri Krishna and His Līlā....
Just my two cents....
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Dear Shaivas and Vaishnavas on RF, please don't attack me for this post!
i duck as rotten fruits are thrown at me
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Namaste,
In other words, "competitive Bhakti" reeks of materialism.
I doubt that the Shri Gods take pleasure in witnessing their Bhaktas duke it out on which devotee is better and more competitive.
It's like:
"Yo, Lord Shri Vishnu! Which one is better: Prahlada or Narada Muni?"
or
"Yo, Shambhu! Which one is better: Nandi or Ravana?"
Ya feel me?
In other words, "competitive Bhakti" reeks of materialism.
I doubt that the Shri Gods take pleasure in witnessing their Bhaktas duke it out on which devotee is better and more competitive.
It's like:
"Yo, Lord Shri Vishnu! Which one is better: Prahlada or Narada Muni?"
or
"Yo, Shambhu! Which one is better: Nandi or Ravana?"
Ya feel me?
Like for example, if I see another superior Rama bhakta, I feel slightly jealous... not that they should not have the devotion, but I have a need that everyone should acknowledge mine as the most superior.
I would be more than happy to listen to your little story.
OK, here it comes. There are variations, but this is the general theme and plot, and is the most well-written. Vishnu
One day Devarishi Narada, the wandering sage went up to Vishnu and asked him who his favorite devotee was. Now as we all know, Narada is a great Vishnu bhakt. So strong is his devotion that he punctuates every sentence with the famous words, Narayana, Narayana. Narayana is one of the many names of Vishnu, as we all know.
Narada was sure that there was no one comparable with him when it came to devotion to Vishnu. So when Narada questioned Him, Vishnu replied thus, There is a good farmer on earth to whom I am dearer than his very life, I choose him.
Narada was shocked to hear this. His pride was broken and the words stung him. But he quickly regained his composure and said, If that is so, I would like to test him.
By all means, said Vishnu smiling kindly.
Narada arrived at the doorstep of the farmers hut. It was afternoon and the farmer had just come home. He stopped at the door, took the Lords name and went in. After eating and refreshing himself the farmer went back to the fields. He returned at dusk and again remembered the Lord before entering the house. Next morning the farmer prayed to the Lord before leaving for work.
Narada was keenly counting. He observed that the farmer took the Lords name only three times during the day before going to the fields in the morning, before eating food in the afternoon and after returning from his field at dusk. So why did Vishnu call him his favorite devotee?
He was puzzled. On returning to the Heavens Narada asked Vishnu. Vishnu was expecting this.
He said, Narada, before I answer you, I have some work that only you can do. He handed him a bowl filled to the brim with oil and asked him to walk around the earth once without dropping any oil. Not a single drop must fall, Narada, Vishnu reminded him.
Narada went away to do as he was bid. Understandably he took a long time to finish the task.
So how many times did you remember me while walking around the earth, asked Vishnu, when Narada got back him Not once, replied Narada, with some hesitation. I was so engrossed in doing the work you assigned to me, that I completely forgot to take your name.
Narada, the farmers work is also given by me to him. He has many responsibilities, and he fulfills them all but still remembers me. Vishnu said.
Narada was ashamed, That is true, he said, with his head down.
Vishnu explained, Those who remember me while doing their duties are dearer to me than those who set aside all work and chant my name day and night.
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
Thank you, Jai, that was a sweet story on true bhakti.
We find that sometimes certain types of negative emotions afflicts our personalities from time to time, under certain situations. I guess this is the manifestation of blockage to some chakras in our astral body. I wish there is some type of chakra therapy for me!
We find that sometimes certain types of negative emotions afflicts our personalities from time to time, under certain situations. I guess this is the manifestation of blockage to some chakras in our astral body. I wish there is some type of chakra therapy for me!
There's another one in which Krishna reigns in Arjuna. The translator didn't have a great grasp of English, so nevermind the grammar and spelling...
As an example, there is a story in Mahabharatha. Arjuna was performing regularly pooja for Athma lingam, but his brother were not doing the same. He felt very proud of his devotional worship to God. As Sri Krishna wanted to control his ego, took him to Mount Kailash, the abode of Shiva. The Arjuna saw large number of baskets of flowers being carried by the Boothaganas. When Arjuna asked Sri Krishna about it, He asked Arjuna to check himself with those carrying the flowers. He stopped one of them asked about it. He got the reply that one of the Pancha Pandavas named Bheema who has been offering these flowers in a pure heart to the lord which they are carrying. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna that if the pure heart flowers of Bheema who does not ever sit down to worship is this much, how much will it be for his own Athmalinga pooja which is performed every day. Sri Krishna asked the Bhoothagana to show Arjuna his portion of the flowers offered. They showed a small mound of flowers lying in one corner. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna to explain this disparity. Sri Krishna explained that, Bheema is thinking of God at all times and whenever he sees a flower garden, he mentally offers all the flowers to Siva as his offering and so it reaches Siva the very next moment. Thus, Sri Krishna explains the Inner self pooja called antharyagam.
As an example, there is a story in Mahabharatha. Arjuna was performing regularly pooja for Athma lingam, but his brother were not doing the same. He felt very proud of his devotional worship to God. As Sri Krishna wanted to control his ego, took him to Mount Kailash, the abode of Shiva. The Arjuna saw large number of baskets of flowers being carried by the Boothaganas. When Arjuna asked Sri Krishna about it, He asked Arjuna to check himself with those carrying the flowers. He stopped one of them asked about it. He got the reply that one of the Pancha Pandavas named Bheema who has been offering these flowers in a pure heart to the lord which they are carrying. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna that if the pure heart flowers of Bheema who does not ever sit down to worship is this much, how much will it be for his own Athmalinga pooja which is performed every day. Sri Krishna asked the Bhoothagana to show Arjuna his portion of the flowers offered. They showed a small mound of flowers lying in one corner. Arjuna asked Sri Krishna to explain this disparity. Sri Krishna explained that, Bheema is thinking of God at all times and whenever he sees a flower garden, he mentally offers all the flowers to Siva as his offering and so it reaches Siva the very next moment. Thus, Sri Krishna explains the Inner self pooja called antharyagam.
Kalidas
Well-Known Member
Jain thanks for that story. I LOVED it. It's not about WHAT you do it's about in which state of mind you do it for!
Viraja I want to see if I can give advice (I will do my best). What you are feeling may or may not be good I won't judge. Yet it is how you feel and it IS hard to change how you feel, much like you can not change water and make it anything else but water. Yet just like water I think your emotions CAN be used for good. Water can be used to turn a water wheel and those can do a good many things. So you too should use your emotions to help you.
You said you want people to acknowledge your devotion and you want to be the number 1 devotee, well I think there is NOT problem in either of these, if used constructively. As far as other people acknowledging you, we acknowledge priests, maybe your temple has some sort of responsibility they need taken care of? Maybe you can see if you can offer your time? Maybe then other people will see it and be inspired to be better devotees themselves? Maybe don't think of it as your doing it because you want admiration, but because you want to be shining example. I can't think of a greater service one can do for their ishta then helping other be better themselves? What better then 1 perfect devotee? HUNDREDS of prefect devotees. In turn this will help you work harder at being better because now you have some responsibility to your fellow man.
Don't look at how you feel and say "Bah this is horrible AWAY WITH YOU!" Rather say "How can I change the outlet for these emotions to be beneficial." Even fire with all its destruction has more useful purposes then harmful ones, you just have to be creative to find them. Just think what would happen if the first man to see fire ONLY saw the destruction. We would have no lights, food, protection, warmth, etc etc etc. Be like fire, avoid destruction search for your purpose!
that's all
Viraja I want to see if I can give advice (I will do my best). What you are feeling may or may not be good I won't judge. Yet it is how you feel and it IS hard to change how you feel, much like you can not change water and make it anything else but water. Yet just like water I think your emotions CAN be used for good. Water can be used to turn a water wheel and those can do a good many things. So you too should use your emotions to help you.
You said you want people to acknowledge your devotion and you want to be the number 1 devotee, well I think there is NOT problem in either of these, if used constructively. As far as other people acknowledging you, we acknowledge priests, maybe your temple has some sort of responsibility they need taken care of? Maybe you can see if you can offer your time? Maybe then other people will see it and be inspired to be better devotees themselves? Maybe don't think of it as your doing it because you want admiration, but because you want to be shining example. I can't think of a greater service one can do for their ishta then helping other be better themselves? What better then 1 perfect devotee? HUNDREDS of prefect devotees. In turn this will help you work harder at being better because now you have some responsibility to your fellow man.
Don't look at how you feel and say "Bah this is horrible AWAY WITH YOU!" Rather say "How can I change the outlet for these emotions to be beneficial." Even fire with all its destruction has more useful purposes then harmful ones, you just have to be creative to find them. Just think what would happen if the first man to see fire ONLY saw the destruction. We would have no lights, food, protection, warmth, etc etc etc. Be like fire, avoid destruction search for your purpose!
that's all
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram viraja ji :namaste
first I am trying to understand your question ,
I dont know if this has any thing to do with it , but .......sometimes I worry a little that some devotees bost a little too much about their bhakti , some temples that I have been to have what I consider to be an un healthy eliet , I dont think that they mean to do it intentionaly but a precedent has been set where one boasts about the level of his devotion so automaticaly others follow ,(it is the look at us we are the serious devotees sindrome) , ..... I even had a prety major argument with our temple persident about fostering competitiveness he thought it was a great Idea , I prefer a gentler approach where people dont get hurt . my way of helping people to develop their natural bhakti was to bring them closer to the deitys give them some small serva and let them naturaly develop their own relationship with the lord , his way was to try to trick people into bhakti through playing on their egos , to me this will not help a person naturaly develop the bhakti that the deity wants , it is not about appearing the big devotee infront of the congregation , it is all about giving gifts of love .
I can only imagine that you might have come incontact with the wrong devotees , if you take the association of competitive people it is hard not to become competitive oneself ,
if one is sarounded by pure devotees there is no competitiveness so it will be hard for you to feel competitivness yourself , and competitiveness will quickly melt away .
I am assuming you are hoping to be acknowledged by your fellow devotees , ??? .... in this case the way out is easy ......
even though you are a rama devotee still this verse from the gita is perfect ....
''being freed from attatchment , fear and anger , being fully absorbed in me , taking refuge in me , many in the past have become purified by knowledge of me , and thus have attained trancendental love for me ''....ch 4 ...v 10
become absorbed in the lord , act only in a way that he will see and appreciate your devotion , the closer you move to the lord the less any other apperance matters , your only concern will be to please the lord , however small your gift you have access to the lords heart just by giving with love :namaste
first I am trying to understand your question ,
I dont know if this has any thing to do with it , but .......sometimes I worry a little that some devotees bost a little too much about their bhakti , some temples that I have been to have what I consider to be an un healthy eliet , I dont think that they mean to do it intentionaly but a precedent has been set where one boasts about the level of his devotion so automaticaly others follow ,(it is the look at us we are the serious devotees sindrome) , ..... I even had a prety major argument with our temple persident about fostering competitiveness he thought it was a great Idea , I prefer a gentler approach where people dont get hurt . my way of helping people to develop their natural bhakti was to bring them closer to the deitys give them some small serva and let them naturaly develop their own relationship with the lord , his way was to try to trick people into bhakti through playing on their egos , to me this will not help a person naturaly develop the bhakti that the deity wants , it is not about appearing the big devotee infront of the congregation , it is all about giving gifts of love .
I can only imagine that you might have come incontact with the wrong devotees , if you take the association of competitive people it is hard not to become competitive oneself ,
if one is sarounded by pure devotees there is no competitiveness so it will be hard for you to feel competitivness yourself , and competitiveness will quickly melt away .
if you feel a need for acknowledgement is this from the other devotees ? or from lord rama himself ?
I am assuming you are hoping to be acknowledged by your fellow devotees , ??? .... in this case the way out is easy ......
even though you are a rama devotee still this verse from the gita is perfect ....
''being freed from attatchment , fear and anger , being fully absorbed in me , taking refuge in me , many in the past have become purified by knowledge of me , and thus have attained trancendental love for me ''....ch 4 ...v 10
become absorbed in the lord , act only in a way that he will see and appreciate your devotion , the closer you move to the lord the less any other apperance matters , your only concern will be to please the lord , however small your gift you have access to the lords heart just by giving with love :namaste
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
Thank you, Jai, Lemaster, Ratikala, I shall keep your helpful comments in mind.
Ratikala - what a nice write-up! I shall take up to your advice seriously, thanks for quoting from the great BG.
ps - Now I shall be going to pray and attend to other chores, so if anybody responds, I will reply only after quite a delay. Thank you all.
Ratikala - what a nice write-up! I shall take up to your advice seriously, thanks for quoting from the great BG.
ps - Now I shall be going to pray and attend to other chores, so if anybody responds, I will reply only after quite a delay.
Thank you all.
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No, do tell of it!
But I have another one about a stolen banana, a hundi and Sri Vishnu doing penance with his devotee.
Maija
Active Member
I feel so possessive about my Rama...I don't know what to do. I really would love the satsang with other Rama devotees but really I want to be acclaimed for my bhakti for Rama.. I'm very much like the jealous king of the Krishna story although my bhakti would be much lesser than that great king!
Blessed are those that are devoid of such pangs..
The other day I saw 2 children playing with their dad circling around his legs and hugging him, taking turns. With each one's turn, the child said, "Dada is all mine", and the other one said, "No, he's mine" and they went on and on... It reminded to me of myself and my affinity for Rama.
You know that we may view our relationship with God in different lights. Some people may be protective about God as the feelings evident in a parent and child relationship, that tender feeling of protecting ones deity may be same as if God was their baby. Or possesiveness over God like one has with their love, realizing that all stems from a love for that deva.
one should not wish that others not know that deva, but just be aware that their feelings are perhaps related to self importance or ego or something which is very human and normal, sweet friend- thanks for sharing!