Post new news... regarding Fergusion:

[Wirey]

Wilson speaks:

Ferguson officer Darren Wilson's grand jury testimony: 7 revelations - World - CBC News

 

[Revoltingest]

Legal scholars praise Ferguson grand jury for fairness beyond the norm - Washington Times

 

[dawny0826]

Everyone knew that Wilson was not going to be indicted on criminal charges of murder 1 or murder 2 or manslaughter. Granted, though, there were many that hoped he would stand trial. However, the numbers are stacked against those who would challenge the system of profiling that is an everyday occurrance. No indictment was what was being expected from both sides.

But given the weight of evidence that Brown's civil rights were violated, it's almost certain that Wilson will face a civil court from one of two ways...his family presses charges, or the city prosecutor does himself. I predict the former is what will happen, and Wilson faced with evidence of unreasonable force (not considered criminal, though) will likely be convicted and face light penalties by the system.

I know that you are very close to this community and have witnessed things first hand that most of us have not. My heart continues to go out to the family of Michael Brown and for those who knew and loved him.

Not everyone has known for certain that there would or wouldn't be an indictment. Many, myself included, have felt it dishonest to assume an outcome before all evidence was made available.

This does concern me about many. Ferguson residents have legitimate concerns regarding unfair profiling, excessive use of police force and disproportionate representation. Even so, it's crucial for residents to understand that not all police officers, even if white, are guilty of the aforementioned. To assume guilt without thorough examination and consideration of evidence is as hypocritical as the adversity faced.

It's frightening to me that some have demanded an indictment without any regard as to evidence and Wilson's side of the story at all. That, in my opinion, depicts a mentality that is as counter productive and hateful as the adversity objected to.

Our President spoke very well last night. We have to be honest in facing the issues at hand that need to be changed, while understanding that not everyone is part of that problem.

Laws need to change. Systems need to change.

Mindset and hearts need to change. This starts with individual people, even those faced with adversity.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Rodney Kings case and OJ Simpsons case went from acquittal to civil suits and resulted in convictions.

True, but it's unclear to me what can or should be inferred from this.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I know that you are very close to this community and have witnessed things first hand that most of us have not. My heart continues to go out to the family of Michael Brown and for those who knew and loved him.

Not everyone has known for certain that there would or wouldn't be an indictment. Many, myself included, have felt it dishonest to assume an outcome before all evidence was made available.

Perhaps. I can see why you would feel that way. Since becoming more active, I see this play out the same month after month. I don't see my thoughts as being dishonest. I see them as being rational with history repeating itself.

This does concern me about many. Ferguson residents have legitimate concerns regarding unfair profiling, excessive use of police force and disproportionate representation. Even so, it's crucial for residents to understand that not all police officers, even if white, are guilty of the aforementioned. To assume guilt without thorough examination and consideration of evidence is as hypocritical as the adversity faced.

Ah, but again, given the acknowledgement that I am closer to the community than others here, and that I have certainly witnessed first hand the marches, the dialogue, and the escalation of force night after night, is it really hypocritical for me and for others so close to the violence to expect much of the same to play out?

I don't think so. I don't think people who are not close to the situation are ignorant, closed-minded, or racist. I think it's important to acknowledge that those of us who are smack dab in the middle of all this are doing we what can to be rational and centered and to weigh evidence as much as the next person. I think it would be really unfair of me to assume that those who are on the outside don't care and have no emotional investment in any of this.

It's frightening to me that some have demanded an indictment without any regard as to evidence and Wilson's side of the story at all. That, in my opinion, depicts a mentality that is as counter productive and hateful as the adversity objected to.

There are those. There are also those who continue to feed on social media that protestors should be shot on sight. These are people who have called me their friend, knowing full well of my views, and yet still think I and my friends are animals and deserve to die.

It may be frightening to consider people demanding an indictment. It's more frightening IMO to be targeted or who are thought of as unworthy of life just for exercising my 1st Amendment Rights.

Our President spoke very well last night. We have to be honest in facing the issues at hand that need to be changed, while understanding that not everyone is part of that problem.

Laws need to change. Systems need to change.

Mindset and hearts need to change. This starts with individual people, even those faced with adversity.

Yes, agreed. The system needs to change. On that we agree.

 

[gnomon]

Several years ago a U.S. citizen was killed by U.S. marines on his own property. There was no riot. No burning down of local businesses. His name was Ezequiel Hernandez. Yeas later a black man in Mississippi on death row for killing a police officer who violated protocol and presented a reasonable threat to his person and his young daughters person. No riots. Hardly any national media or the so called SJW's and black leadership such as Sharpton or Jackson covering this man's case.

Both of those were far more egregious cases of citizen denial of rights than what we witnessed and what any of us personally know of what went down in Ferguson. The protests and the violence in result of the grand jury decision can only be described as absolute ignorance. The only avenue left to people of wisdom is to decry the outcome of this decision as a result of a race baiting media and so called civil rights leaders who abetted further damage and destruction in the wake of the grand jury decision.

I saw a video of a very mature young man put a stranglehold on a business owner and a cop who presented actual documentation of being assaulted and had a reasonable fear for his own safety. That there are protests and riots over this case where far more obvious cases of such egregious and outrageous miscarriages of justice speaks to the failure of the civil rights leaders in our modern era tells us that the so called leaders of civil rights in this day and age care far more for continuing discordance rather than exploring a true relation among the citizens of this nation.

We saw it with the imbecilic hoodies and hijab movement on the internet when so many people failed to recognize the truth behind the death of Shaima Alawadi and combined it with the imbecilic notion of black v. white with the Zimmerman case. That instance of so called awareness turned into a case of national stupidity. Yet we didn't hold the stupid people accountable. Instead we pontificated as fools.

edit: I still think this new format is crap.

 

[dawny0826]

Perhaps. I can see why you would feel that way. Since becoming more active, I see this play out the same month after month. I don't see my thoughts as being dishonest. I see them as being rational with history repeating itself.

Dishonest wasn't the best descriptive for me to use. I'll take ownership of that.

Ah, but again, given the acknowledgement that I am closer to the community than others here, and that I have certainly witnessed first hand the marches, the dialogue, and the escalation of force night after night, is it really hypocritical for me and for others so close to the violence to expect much of the same to play out?

I've yet to argue that excessive force hasn't been an issue. I've never claimed that the majority of citizens didn't protest peacefully.

Some that I've discussed concerns in Ferguson with speak as if Ferguson residents can't possibly be arrested justifiably because all of the white officers on the force (the majority) are racist. It's that type of mentality that concerns me.

I don't accept that there isn't a single circumstance where force is justified.

I don't think so. I don't think people who are not close to the situation are ignorant, closed-minded, or racist. I think it's important to acknowledge that those of us who are smack dab in the middle of all this are doing we what can to be rational and centered and to weigh evidence as much as the next person. I think it would be really unfair of me to assume that those who are on the outside don't care and have no emotional investment in any of this.

The problem is that not everyone has bothered to weigh the evidence at all, Heather, but, vehemently have demanded that Wilson be punished. It's this type of mentality that concerns me. I'm not suggesting that a majority holds such mindset. I'm merely stating that this type of mentality bothers me greatly.

There are those. There are also those who continue to feed on social media that protestors should be shot on sight. These are people who have called me their friend, knowing full well of my views, and yet still think I and my friends are animals and deserve to die.

It may be frightening to consider people demanding an indictment. It's more frightening IMO to be targeted or who are thought of as unworthy of life just for exercising my 1st Amendment Rights.

I'm not one of these people nor is my husband and we've been accused of some heinous things over the last few months for simply holding an opinion that rioting hasn't been justified, having never claimed that the majority were doing so. We've been accused of outright racism and hatred for considering the point of view of Officer Wilson and looking to additional evidence and testimony that is just now available to the public. This was important to us before drawing our own conclusions.

There's been ugliness flung at people from many directions. I have no doubt that people in your community have been hardest hit and I have no doubt that this has been an emotional and trying time. I don't discount your pain or the pain of those directly involved.

I'm sharing a perspective that I fully expect some to ignore and/or disagree with.

I appreciate that most can join together in desiring change and healing not just for this community but for other communities as well.

 

[Wirey]

No justice as long as the police are above the law?

America's Ferguson protests put police authority on trial - World - CBC News

 

[Revoltingest]

No justice as long as the police are above the law?

America's Ferguson protests put police authority on trial - World - CBC News

I was struck by this....

Obama, who seemed unable to hide his disappointment at the verdict, talked about a system "in which the law too often feels as if it is being applied in discriminatory fashion."

If true, it's bodes poorly for us that the prez, who isn't on the grand jury, & isn't aware of the complete picture, has decided what the verdict should be.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The grand jury is the only body to hear all the evidence arguments and counter-arguments. They saw no cause to bring charges. I accept their decision. Nobody else has heard everything or the officer's version of the events so they would be basing their opinion on less information than the Grand Jury.

A grand jury's mandate is very limited: it only looks at whether the law was likely violated. I think an inquiry or commission is in order to answer other relevant questions:

- are the relevant laws here the right laws? Should they be changed?

- are there new types of police training that could help to reduce the number of people in general or black youth specifically who are shot by the police?

- are there any areas of police training now where officers are actually being taught the wrong way to handle situations like these?

- how do cultural factors within police forces affect race relations?

I think a lot of the anger directed at this decision is really about larger issues that go well beyond this one case, but other avenues for change haven't been available.

I'm not sure what to think about the grand jury decision. It may very well be that Officer Wilson didn't break any law. In his interview I saw recently, he said "I followed my training"... and that may very well be right. If so, this is a defense for him personally, but it still raises the question of whether the training he received was correct.

As a first step, even before an inquiry, I think that stats on police shootings should be released. As the CFO at a company I used to work at was fond of saying, "if you can measure it, you can manage it." AFAIK, nobody's measuring this right now, which suggests to me that nobody's managing the issue.

 

[Wirey]

If true, it's bodes poorly for us that the prez, who isn't on the grand jury, & isn't aware of the complete picture, has decided what the verdict should be.

I took his use of 'feels like' as a qualifier, but you're right, he does sound like he's passing judgement a little.

 

[Jainarayan]

Ferguson residents have legitimate concerns regarding unfair profiling, excessive use of police force and disproportionate representation.

People crying out "Racial profiling!" is getting old. How can "profiling" be applied to a location that is overwhelmingly of one ethnicity?

 

[Ouroboros]

I was struck by this....

If true, it's bodes poorly for us that the prez, who isn't on the grand jury, & isn't aware of the complete picture, has decided what the verdict should be.

Here's something to think about how propaganda works. I saw the Presidents speech too. The article says, "Obama, who seemed unable to hide his disappointment at the verdict." I don't personally know if the President was hiding his disappointment or if he was seriously concerned to word everything in the most gentle way to avoid conflicts and riots. I can't say that I can for sure know his intention or mental state at the moment when he read it. I remember that moment because I was analyzing what I saw when I heard him say this. Maybe he was disappointed, maybe he wasn't and his body language spoke something entirely different.

But here's the problem. Media right now is using propaganda to stir things up. They are intentionally creating this conflict. We have to be careful with how we read what's being reported, because there are small things thrown in here and there that sets of a subconscious thought and leads us to take a stand to one side or another.

Just wanted to make a note of that.

 

[Ouroboros]

I took his use of 'feels like' as a qualifier, but you're right, he does sound like he's passing judgement a little.

It was almost an impossible situation he was in. It wouldn't matter how he smiled or not, fidgeting with fingers or not, moving a foot here or there, every little twitch in his face somehow would reveal something or mislead anything we'd interpret from it. He was obviously extremely nervous and tried extremely hard to be on the moderate side. I don't think he intentionally passed judgment or even was disappointed. I think he just tried darn hard to not create any news to either side that he was for or against what transpired, but only that he was against further violence, rioting, looting, burning, etc.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

People crying out "Racial profiling!" is getting old. How can "profiling" be applied to a location that is overwhelmingly of one ethnicity?

Rates are applied not just to residents in Ferguson; but the racial makeup of visitors to the area too.

 

[Jainarayan]

Rates are applied not just to residents in Ferguson; but the racial makeup of visitors to the area too.

So just what is the rate of profiling? Let's get numbers of the who, when, where, why, and outcome.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We should all step back and stop conflating issues while pretending to know what we don't know.

 

[esmith]

After the loss of businesses to fire and the looting that took place does Governor Nixon's decision not to get the National Guard involved the question is was it good or bad decision? The second night the Guard was used and the incidents were not repeated. It is my opinion that the Governor made a bad decision that hurt a lot of businesses and enabled the outside agitators to basically have a free hand.
How say you?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So just what is the rate of profiling? Let's get numbers of the who, when, where, why, and outcome.

Plenty of source material on google scholar. Honestly, I'm tired, beat, our meeting place has been gassed in spite of it being recognized by law enforcement as a protestor sanctuary, friends of mine have been shot, and a clegy friend of mine was sprayed in the face after she prayed to an officer for his safety.

I'd love to think I'm the perfect person to discuss a lot of this on this thread, but one of three things I fear will happen...1) that I'm considered too emotional to think clearly and will be responded to as such...or 2) that I'm considered some martyr for being involved and putting my safety at risk for the purpose of protesting...or 3) that I'm no better than the "animals" who are really at fault for all this destruction.

Our city has been burning and has been operated under a quasi-martial law since Monday evening. A great many of us in our circles are acquiring new symptoms of PTSD and now must find more coping measures when new triggers occur.

I don't often do this here, in fact this may be the first time I've asked in the several years of membership and moderator duty, but I ask for some heavy duty patience and compassion regarding this issue since I'm a contributing member here and am right here in it. I've said for months now since the August uprising in Ferguson surrounding the case, I hope none of you ever have to stare down the barrel of an assault rifle resting on top of a tank from the very people who have sworn to serve and protect you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't often do this here, in fact this may be the first time I've asked in the several years of membership and moderator duty, but I ask for some heavy duty patience and compassion regarding this issue since I'm a contributing member here and am right here in it.

Shalom, my friend, and ahavah (love).