Practicing Chaitanya Vaishnavism Independently

[dsaly1969]

I've always been attracted to the worship of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna, but as a Westerner who works in a demanding field with long hours (social work) I know that I would be unable to meet the stringent demands required by most gurus at the time of diksha or even harinam initiation. So I remain independent and unaffiliated with any Vaishnava organization. (This dos not mean that I would not consider joining a Vaishnava organization in the future if my circumstances change.)

However I still try to follow the universal spiritual path of Naam kirtan and Mahamantra japa as taught by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. As such Sri Chaitanya is my "siksa guru”. I honor Sri Sri Radha-Krishna as God/dess in the original, simple, and natural way of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Chaitanya led an inclusive and welcoming movement (which was rather revolutionary!) which was open to all regardless of religious background, caste, or life condition to experience the transforming effect of Radha-Krishna bhakti in their everyday lives.

"O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by chanting Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them." ~ Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the Siksastaka (the only thing He actually wrote).

In the Siksastaka, Sri Chaitanya did not specify specific regulations or lifestyle choices or number of rounds of japa per day or necessitate particular rituals or initiation by a guru (although none of these things are bad in themselves if they assist a particular individual on his or her spiritual journey). In fact it seems many things were reintroduced into the tradition after the passing of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

In addition to the Siksastaka, I also study the Bhagavad Gita, the Srimad Bhagavatam (aka Bhagavata Purana), and the Uddhava Gita.

In fact, Lord Krishna concludes His Bhagavad-gita teaching by saying, “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender to Me. I will deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.” (Bhagavad Gita 18:66). It is even stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta: “diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhar:. “One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.”

Through the practice of Naam kirtan and Mahamantra japa, we can become more mindful of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna and to perform all of our everyday duties as a devotional service to Them. In this age of Kali-Yuga, we do not need to do any other religious requirements or “regulations” other than Naam kirtan and Mahamantra japa. (I avoid doing aarti/puja to not cause offense) "Harer nama, harer nama, harer namaiva kevalam, kalau nasti eva, nasti eva, nasti eva gatir anyatha: In this Age of Degradation, the only way to escape is through the Holy Name, the Holy Name, the Holy Name of the Lord. There is no other way, there is no other way, there is no other way."

 

[ShivaFan]

You are certainly a heartfelt devotee of Caitanya. Do you have Gaur Nitai murtis in your home? You definetly are qualified, if you do not yet then you should seek this type of Bengali style murti:

You can then make your own or purchase the attire for such murtis.

No doubt there is an ISKCON temple near you. If you do not own yet, purchase the entire set of the Caitanya Caritamrita.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[dsaly1969]

Thanks! understand that Gaur Nitai is the most merciful form especially for the uninitiated like me. I might start with photos rather than murtis though to get my feet wet as it probably would not be as elaborate and then work up to murtis. I've seen the more formal pujas and aartis at the temple but not really how to do it at home. Are there any good resources?

BTW, I have the whole set of Caitanya Caritamrita on ebook on my tablet (my tablet saves me a lot of space as I stay in the Los Angeles area during the week in a room and go back to my 5.5 acre rural spread in Tehachapi on the weekends).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Framed photos are nice. Tilaka, tandula (Rice), and pushpa (flowers), on the glass and frame; and clean it daily.

 

[Asha]

Hare Krishna Dsaly Ji

It can be so difficult when you have heavy work commitments, but Dont worry it sounds like you are doing the right things.
the most important is Reading and Chanting, when I am not around the temple I listen to a lot of Bhajans its just like having the best of devotee association.

And for any one who is bussy or living in different places because of work keeping murtis realy not very practical as once you start to serve them you cant leave them , this will only make you feel bad when you cant give them regular service. You can allways have small traveling pictures this is much easier and you dont have to commit to so much service.

best wishes and good to see a new member hopefully we can speak more later,

Sorry I have to rush ...

Jai shree Krishna

Asha

 

[dsaly1969]

Thanks!

Exactly! While probably hard to create offense with Naam Sankirtan and Mahamantra japa (although I do like both the regular Mahamantra as well as the Yugal Mahamantra so maybe that will do it), I understand it would be very easy to cause offense if trying to do puja and aarti to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna murtis. I hear that it is much better to start off with devotion to Gaura Nitai or perhaps Pancha Tattva who are much more "forgiving" of inadvertent offenses not done deliberately (I would probably start with framed photos rather than murtis of Gaura Nitai and Pancha Tattva as well).

My new goal is to institute devotion to Gaura Nitai and Pancha Tattva in my household along with my Naam sankirtan and Mahamantra japa.

And then there is the whole train of thought of how closely you follow the "regulative principles" before you chant on tulasi beads (as opposed to neem or other materials) although I do think BG 18:66 addresses that for me. (I do differentiate between intention and unintentional offense.)

Being "independent" and unaffiliated does have pros and cons. The pros is that I have been able to visit Gaudiya Vaishnava communities and temples of various affiliations and discover the unique devotional moods of each of them. (I like them all.) I do have great respect for Srila Prabhupada although I do think that I might end up being more comfortable someplace outside of ISKCON (but I still do not rule out possibilities). I have 5 more years or so on the job before I can retire and make some real lasting changes to my life situation and my spirituality. In the meantime I try to do what I can which brings up the cons - community/sanga is important to encourage ongoing spiritual development and practice. I know I would do much better in the company of like-minded souls.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I understand it would be very easy to cause offense if trying to do puja and aarti to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna murtis. I hear that it is much better to start off with devotion to Gaura Nitai or perhaps Pancha Tattva .. I might end up being more comfortable someplace outside of ISKCON ..

Causing offense to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna? They are nothing but love. We don't ever think that Krishna can be angry with us. Just do what BG 18.66 tells you to do and you are always safe whatever you do, surrender to the Lord.

Do you think that one cannot worship Krishna without being an ISKCONite? I am not one. I rever Krishna as well as all other hundreds of Gods and Goddesses of Hinduism.

 

[dsaly1969]

Causing offense to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna? They are nothing but love. We don't ever think that Krishna can be angry with us. Just do what BG 18.66 tells you to do and you are always safe whatever you do, surrender to the Lord.

Do you think that one cannot worship Krishna without being an ISKCONite? I am not one. I rever Krishna as well as all other hundreds of Gods and Goddesses of Hinduism.

Of course one can worship Krishna without being a member of ISKCON. I know quite a few Advaitins who worship Krishna - including the Nama Dwaar / Global Organization for Divinity movement founded by Sri Muralidhara Swamiji. I tend to favor Achintya-Bheda-Abheda (inconceivable oneness and difference) of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the best (I have always felt a strong connection to Sri Chaitanya) for myself. I know that viewpoint is more prevalent among the Gaudiya Vaishnavas including ISKCON, SCS Math, and the devotees of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja (IPBYS?) as well as the devotees of Jagadguru Kripaluji Maharaj. I also think the Nimbarka sampradaya has a similar outlook. I've met and liked fellow Vaishnavas from all of these groups although I dislike some of the bickerings between groups (and also how they can be rude to Advaitins). I have my own concerns about some of the gurus and leaders or how they have addressed past issues which also makes me shy away from formal association, but I do think all of these groups fulfill specific spiritual needs for different types of devotees.

In terms of offense, I have been exposed through some literature to discussion to how mistakes done during pujas and aarti or if one is not pure enough when chanting on tulasi beads can cause offense. I'm sure much of this is something I need to work on purging from my system and outlook.

It would be nice though to be able to associate with a wide variety of Vaishnavas from various affiliations with a focus on Naam sankirtan (I do think there seems to be more emphasis given to japa and not enough on sankirtan currently) without needing to segregate ourselves. In both of the locations where I reside (I work in one area during the week and my wife and kids live in another and I travel there on the weekends), I am a good hour away from specifically Vaishnava sanga. The priests at the Bakersfield Hindu temple have been very nice and welcoming, but these types of "nonsectarian" temples are there for darshan but little opportunity for "fellowship" as the function is different than a Vaishnava specific sanga which has classes, et al. (Also I find that I am more of a curiosity at the nonsectarian temple particularly, I think most Hindu "converts" tend to adopt Indian culture and dress in that fashion while I am proud of my own heritage - Cherokee and English - and show proper etiquette at the mandir but dress in conservative clothes appropriate to my background).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Also I find that I am more of a curiosity at the nonsectarian temple particularly, I think most Hindu "converts" tend to adopt Indian culture and dress in that fashion while I am proud of my own heritage - Cherokee and English - and show proper etiquette at the mandir but dress in conservative clothes appropriate to my background.

It is temporary and it will pass. There are many people in Hinduism section who have faced this sort of situation. And keep your head high and cherish your heritage, always. I do the same.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Dsaly ji

Firstly , ..Welcome to Hindu DIR , ....good to have your association ,

I tend to favor Achintya-Bheda-Abheda (inconceivable oneness and difference) of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the best (I have always felt a strong connection to Sri Chaitanya) for myself. I know that viewpoint is more prevalent among the Gaudiya Vaishnavas including ISKCON, SCS Math, and the devotees of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja (IPBYS?) as well as the devotees of Jagadguru Kripaluji Maharaj. I also think the Nimbarka sampradaya has a similar outlook. I've met and liked fellow Vaishnavas from all of these groups although I dislike some of the bickerings between groups (and also how they can be rude to Advaitins). I have my own concerns about some of the gurus and leaders or how they have addressed past issues which also makes me shy away from formal association, but I do think all of these groups fulfill specific spiritual needs for different types of devotees.

from what you say it is to the feet of Gaura Nitai that you should go for shelter , ....you do not nececarily need Murtis to do that , a picture is quite sufficient , then one need not worry so much about commititng offences , ..if you take shelter of Chaitanya mahaprabhu one symultaniously takes shelter of Sri Sri RadhaKrsna , ....everything then will come in its own time .

I understand fully youre reservations regarding the politics and in fighting and in some respects one is wise to distance oneself from these aspects , ...however there is one reason to tollerate such inconsistencies , ..and that is that fron within one can be a force for positive change , every institution needs and can benifit from this freshness .

In terms of offense, I have been exposed through some literature to discussion to how mistakes done during pujas and aarti or if one is not pure enough when chanting on tulasi beads can cause offense. I'm sure much of this is something I need to work on purging from my system and outlook.

it is for these reasons that it is best to hold back from deity worship untill one is sure that one (and ones family) are ready for this commitment . but just take it gently , it will all fal into place when the time is right .

It would be nice though to be able to associate with a wide variety of Vaishnavas from various affiliations with a focus on Naam sankirtan (I do think there seems to be more emphasis given to japa and not enough on sankirtan currently) without needing to segregate ourselves. In both of the locations where I reside (I work in one area during the week and my wife and kids live in another and I travel there on the weekends), I am a good hour away from specifically Vaishnava sanga. The priests at the Bakersfield Hindu temple have been very nice and welcoming, but these types of "nonsectarian" temples are there for darshan but little opportunity for "fellowship" as the function is different than a Vaishnava specific sanga which has classes, et al. (Also I find that I am more of a curiosity at the nonsectarian temple particularly, I think most Hindu "converts" tend to adopt Indian culture and dress in that fashion while I am proud of my own heritage - Cherokee and English - and show proper etiquette at the mandir but dress in conservative clothes appropriate to my background).

you are fine to do as you feel comfortable with , the deities fully understand this , it is the heart that matters not the growing of a sikha .

wishing you every blessing

Hari Hari Bol

 

[dsaly1969]

Wow! I was suprised to run across the Krishna West initiative started by Hridayananda Dasa Goswami of ISKCON. I guess it has started some controversy but I like it.

"We call this movement Krishna West because we do everything possible to make bhakti-yoga easy, relevant and enjoyable for Western people, without in any way compromising, diluting, or diminishing the purity and power of a glorious ancient tradition. We do this by offering the essential spiritual teaching and practice in its entirety, without requiring students and practitioners to embrace a new ethnicity composed of non-essential Eastern dress, cuisine, music etc. People in the West need and deserve the chance to practice genuine bhakti-yoga within an external culture that is comfortable and natural for them.

Krishna West is part of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, the "Hare Krishna Movement," founded by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. We seek to serve the Western world with intelligent, appropriate, non-sectarian spiritual activism that powerfully addresses, with spiritual wisdom, issues of social and economic justice, the global environment, and ultimate liberation. Our vision, that every living being is an eternal part of God and thus worthy of our love, forms the basis of our approach to justice, the environment, and enlightenment."

"I simply want people all over the Western countries to take this simple formula of chanting, dancing, eating Krishna prasadam, and being happy." - A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ISKCON Founder-Acharya. (By the way I found more corroborating statements in this same vein in "The Science of Self-Realization".)
The three core practices of Krishna bhakti are as follows: 1) mantra meditation (japa and kirtan), 2) spiritual vegetarianism (prasadam), and 3) cultivation of transcendental knowledge (study of the Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam).

Hare Krishna Gets Evangelical | OnFaith
Home - Krishna West

 

[Poeticus]

Hare Krishna Gets Evangelical | OnFaith

The comment section of that article is intriguing.

On a more important note: ISKCON needs to hurry up and make Ratiben its president or overseer already. Under her leadership, the organization will become a thousand times better.

 

[Vinayaka]

I find it interesting to watch and read. Bringing Hinduism to the west has had its challenges, that's for sure.

 

[Poeticus]

I find it interesting to watch and read. Bringing Hinduism to the west has had its challenges, that's for sure.

That's very true, it's been difficult. I believe Hinduism Today, the Shaiva Siddhanta Church, and the homies at the Kauai Temple, have been doing a fantastic job. They have been able to balance not only their distinct (Shaivic) identity, but also have been highly involved in pretty much all Hinduism-related facets of Dharma and have done an awesome job staying contextual (some of the proudest Hindus here in the West, holmes). Only one problem: getting to Hawaii for darshan is too darn expensive for a student like me!

 

[Vinayaka]

All I can say is 'thank Goodness the immigrants came!' Like you, young man. One time a very long time ago ... like 1976 or so we went to the local country fair/exhibition. Walking amongst the crowd, pretending to be an international charity feeding the poor were two ISKCONites in suits and ties, asking for donations. (Illegally, (only charities that were registered with the exhibition were allowed on grounds) full of deception, and who knows what else?) I let them know I knew who they were, as they were wearing name-tags.

But then ... the immigrants came ... Yay!! I can't imagine what western style Hinduism would look like today if the immigrants wouldn't have come. (Well, I can imagine, but don't really like it.)

Sorry to go way off topic, dsaly, if you want this deleted, ask me, and I will.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Vinayaka ji

All I can say is 'thank Goodness the immigrants came!' Like you, young man. One time a very long time ago ... like 1976 or so we went to the local country fair/exhibition. Walking amongst the crowd, pretending to be an international charity feeding the poor were two ISKCONites in suits and ties, asking for donations. (Illegally, (only charities that were registered with the exhibition were allowed on grounds) full of deception, and who knows what else?) I let them know I knew who they were, as they were wearing name-tags.

But then ... the immigrants came ... Yay!! I can't imagine what western style Hinduism would look like today if the immigrants wouldn't have come. (Well, I can imagine, but don't really like it.)

Sorry to go way off topic, dsaly, if you want this deleted, ask me, and I will.

there is only one thing I can say to this post and that is ......

Yay , ...there are some briliant and devoted immigrants , ....and
Yay , ....there are some briliant and devoted westerners , ...

and there are idiots and phonies on both sides of the fence , I have met more than a few that are of no credit to Hinduism what so ever ,

not so long ago I met a man ( Indian ) who professed to be a guru , he had picked up a very inocent (rather Naive) young western girl got her pregnant , came over here with her and tried to get a visa by saying he wanted to marry her , He drank to excess , she was distraught , I took him to one side and as reasonably as I possibly could , asked him if he was a guru and he wanted to do the right thing by this girl , why it was that he spent so much time in the Pub instead of looking after his intended wife ???...he told me that he was shaivite and that drinking and drug taking was perfectly OK for Preists and Gurus as it expanded their minds !!!

But do not worry I will not judge all Shaivites or all Indians on the basis of this deluded soul .

But Hey , .....lets just judge each according to their merits rather than judging books by their covers !

 

[Vinayaka]

Observation is different than judging. All behaviours are understandable when you meditate on them. Some in the light of dharma, and some in the darkness of adharma. These boys were just doing what they figured was the right thing to do. Your acquaintance found a way to satisfy his lower nature, and a victim to fall for it. Such is the richness of life on this planet.

Still, I often wonder why He puts particular experiences in front of us. I like to believe it is for the lesson we are to derive from them. With some common sense, hopefully we are able to accurately cognize each lesson.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram PoeticusBhai ji

The comment section of that article is intriguing.

they most certaily are , ...

On a more important note: ISKCON needs to hurry up and make Ratiben its president or overseer already. Under her leadership, the organization will become a thousand times better.

Rule No 1, .....Every Temple must have its own Goshala , if they are too small they must be provided for by a larger temple , ....if one can import Karela and mangos then surely for the love of Gomata and Govinda milk can certainly be transported a few miles .

Rule No 2, .....Older members of the comunity must not be forgoten about once they are too old to do serva they must be brought into the comunity where they can be loved and cherished , and where they can nurture the young and impart reason and knowledge .

Rule No 3 , .....there will be no changes to Srila Prabhupadas Gita however subtle they might be , footnotes may be made but No changes !

Rule No 4 , ......all initiating Gurus and Comunity leaders and preachers must fully understand and exhibit the principle of 'Dasa Dasanu Dasah' as does my beautifull Gurumaharajji

Chaitanya Caritamrita Madhya 13.80: "'I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya or a śūdra. Nor am I a brahmacārī, a householder, a vānaprastha or a sannyāsī. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the maintainer of the gopīs. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance.'"

do I hold the Ritvic veiw ? good question for another thread .

 

[ratikala]

Ps , ...I do not care if anyone is black white brown or pink , main requirement is realise we are not this body

 

[dsaly1969]

All I can say is 'thank Goodness the immigrants came!'

But then ... the immigrants came ... Yay!! I can't imagine what western style Hinduism would look like today if the immigrants wouldn't have come. (Well, I can imagine, but don't really like it.)

Sorry to go way off topic, dsaly, if you want this deleted, ask me, and I will.

No that's okay. I don't think the point of Krishna West is to change anything that is happening at the temples. It was the ethnic immigrants from India that have preserved and maintained ISKCON in the West. What they are really talking is an alternate way for some Westerners to engage with Gaudiya Vaishnavism while still maintaining the essentials of the tradition without all of the nonessential cultural stuff often attached to it (dress, food, music). Some Westerners are attracted to that and others may find it to be a barrier, but it seems Krishna West still focuses on the 4 Regulative Principles, the goal of 16 rounds of japa per day, and studying the Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, etc.

I found this quote from Srila Prabhupada which seems consistent with the spirit of Krishna West.

"Therefore, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that this is the incarnation of God in this age. And who worships Him? The process is very simple. Just keep a picture of Lord Caitanya with His associates. Lord Caitanya is in the middle, accompanied by His principal associates—Nityānanda, Advaita, Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsa. One simply has to keep this picture. One can keep it anywhere. It is not that one has to come to us to see this picture. Anyone can have this picture in his home, chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and thus worship Lord Caitanya. That is the simple method. But who will capture this simple method? Those who have good brains. Without much bother, if one simply keeps a picture of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu at home and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, then one will realize God. Anyone can adopt this simple method. There is no expenditure, there is no tax, nor is there any need to build a very big church or temple. Anyone, anywhere, can sit down on the road or beneath a tree and chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and worship God. Therefore it is a great opportunity. For example, in business or political life one sometimes finds a great opportunity. Those who are intelligent politicians take a good opportunity and make a success of it the first time it comes. Similarly, in this age, those who have sufficient intelligence take to this saṅkīrtana movement, and they advance very quickly." ~ Srila Prabhupada in "The Science of Self-Realization" (Chapter 5)

I don't think it is a return back to the Krishna caroling in Santa suits.