"Pranksters" at CERN perform mock human sacrifice in front of Shiva

[Aupmanyav]

No one can have a laugh at our expense if we ourselves are laughing.

 

[User14]

I can say that running away from it or tossing it all out the window is not the way.

But that doesn't mean you have to accept it or participate in it, does it?

1. How do we know the location of the video?

It's definitely CERN.

2. Why does this matter?

Maybe it doesn't matter. But I'm not 100% convinced it's all a big joke because very similar rituals are done unironically behind closed doors at a number of different secret societies.

 

[User14]

I struggle with this idea. It can be argued that the animal's life is worthless as it has no goals to achieve and perhaps through sanctifying it through ritual you are helping the soul evolve. However, the animal is still a living being, and all living beings feel pain and pleasure, and no matter how much we rationalise the murder of an animal, the animal is certainly feeling pain. I don't see how we can justify that inflicting pain on the animal is more justified than inflicting pain on a human. The other problem with this we become the arbiters of which life is considered dispensable and which is not. If we are the arbiters, then group A may decide pigs are dispensable, group B may decide dogs are dispensable, group C dolphins, group D cats, and eventually somebody may even decide some races of humans are dispensable, and we know that has happened in many genocides in human history. It is dangerous because it is arbitrary.

I recall an argument by the Charvaka philosophers who challenged the animal sacrificial rituals of the early Brahmins, when the Brahmins said that they are doing good for the animal by sending it straight to heaven, they challenged thus "If that is the case, then why don't the Brahmins offer their, mothers, fathers and sons, to send them to heaven first."

I find it very hard to reconcile animal sacrifices as being part of an advanced spiritual culture.

Oh I agree, I was just playing "devil's" advocate (pardon the pun). I greatly admire Jains for their radical commitment to ahimsa, but ultimately I think it's impossible to live a life in the material world without harming other living things around you. Still, I don't think you should go out of your way to harm an animal if you don't have to. I hope the Mother won't love me any less if I can't bring myself to hurt an animal!

 

[User14]

I "believe" in Satan to the extent that I think he represents human vices of selfishness, disobedience, excessive individualism, arrogance, hedonism, etc. I wouldn't want to be associated with a spiritual tradition that celebrates these vices, or worship a deity that embodies them.

 

[Jainarayan]

But that doesn't mean you have to accept it or participate in it, does it?

Of course not. There are times in life you have to cherry-pick. Nothing has to be accepted or rejected 100%. Especially in religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. Neither of them are monolithic religions with set doctrines or dogma.

 

[User14]

Of course not. There are times in life you have to cherry-pick. Nothing has to be accepted or rejected 100%. Especially in religions like Hinduism and Buddhism. Neither of them are monolithic religions with set doctrines or dogma.

I guess what I'm wondering is, how do you avoid having something as a part of your religious practice, while at the same time not running from it or ignoring it either? It seems like I can't talk about something like human sacrifice without doing anything but condemn it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is the best that one can do - condemn/disapprove it. Take for example the animal sacrifice at a Mother Goddess (Devi) temple. Sometimes, our people go too far in it. We condemn it and hope that those people will learn better. But perhaps that is the ritual those people have followed since a few millenniums. Perhaps they are not educated. We allow them time to change, and continue to be with these people while disapproving that particular practice. There is no ritual that every Hindu must necessarily participate in.

 

[Jainarayan]

I guess what I'm wondering is, how do you avoid having something as a part of your religious practice, while at the same time not running from it or ignoring it either? It seems like I can't talk about something like human sacrifice without doing anything but condemn it.

Hinduism is diverse enough that it allows for some things to be embraced and others to be ignored or rejected. Not everything has to or can be embraced. Some things are simply outdated and do not and cannot be applied to society today. That exists in all religions. Modern day Heathens try to reconstruct Heathenry as it was during the Viking Age. But the laws that worked in ancient Norse society don't work today; e.g. a husband was permitted to lop off his wife's head if she committed adultery. Try that today and see what happens.

I don't believe human sacrifice is in any way connected with Hinduism or most other religions. Not to mention it's illegal in almost every part of the world. I don't doubt it's practiced, though. But it's not Hinduism. Personally I think you're letting this occurrence at CERN get under your skin and take up too much room in your head. People misappropriate things from many cultures and religions, usually out of ignorance. In The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Capt. Nemo is performing a puja to Kali. One of the other members of the group said something like "look! he's praying to Kali, the goddess of death!" That was ignorant o the part of the scriptwriters. In the (very) old movie Thief of Baghdad, the evil wizard brings to life a statue he says is Kali (more like a combination of Kali and Nataraja in form), and says "Kali! Kill!", meaning his enemies. I'm certainly not going to reject all of Hinduism for that.

 

[User14]

In The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Capt. Nemo is performing a puja to Kali. One of the other members of the group said something like "look! he's praying to Kali, the goddess of death!" That was ignorant o the part of the scriptwriters. In the (very) old movie Thief of Baghdad, the evil wizard brings to life a statue he says is Kali (more like a combination of Kali and Nataraja in form), and says "Kali! Kill!", meaning his enemies. I'm certainly not going to reject all of Hinduism for that.

Ha, that's a good point. Not to mention the bad guy in Temple of Doom saying "Kali Maa" before ripping someone's beating heart out of their chest I think people in the West like to pretend Hinduism is exotically brutal, for the sake of excitement and romance, and aren't so concerned about accuracy.

 

[Jainarayan]

I think people in the West like to pretend Hinduism is exotically brutal, for the sake of excitement and romance, and aren't so concerned about accuracy.

Booyah!!!

 

[DeviChaaya]

Ha, that's a good point. Not to mention the bad guy in Temple of Doom saying "Kali Maa" before ripping someone's beating heart out of their chest I think people in the West like to pretend Hinduism is exotically brutal, for the sake of excitement and romance, and aren't so concerned about accuracy.

Perhaps ironically this was probably what planted the seed in my mind as a child. I grew up as a typical acultural white westerner. But it must have been a movie or a book, or a television show. It was something and it planted the seed very firmly. It sprouted in my late teens and now it continues to be watered with devotion.

 

[User14]

Perhaps ironically this was probably what planted the seed in my mind as a child. I grew up as a typical acultural white westerner. But it must have been a movie or a book, or a television show. It was something and it planted the seed very firmly. It sprouted in my late teens and now it continues to be watered with devotion.

I think I felt the devotional tug that eventually brought me to love the Mother, before I was even really aware of what Hinduism was.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ah, the mother! So beautiful, so kind, so protective!

 

[SomeRandom]

I hope the Mother won't love me any less if I can't bring myself to hurt an animal!

Well, some have taken to replacing the animal in the sacrifice with a watermelon or other such large fruit. If you can't bring yourself to sacrifice that also, then I'm sure the mother won't quibble. My grandad used to offer actual blood in a skull. The family was a bit queasy at the thought, but apparently, he was quite sincerely "traditional." But they all got along nonetheless. Go figure.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Even today, in my in-laws house, a heart and lung joined has to be offered to Goddes Sharika, who herself is staunchly vegetarian on the ninth day of Nava-Ratras. They have to be separated by hand and not with a knife. And the irony is that the lady of the house herself is vegetarian though she prepares non-veg. food for other in the family. That is when we begin non-vegetarian food after eight days. Traditions. Not in my family, although our family Goddess is Jwala and she is non-vegetarian. The third Goddess worshiped by Kashmiri brahmins is Ragnya (lit.: the Queen), who is vegetarian.

p.s.- I mean the devotees are supposed to do that during Nav-Ratras. Otherwise, the Goddesses are neither vegetarian now non-vegetarian. Kashmiri brahmin on the whole are fervently non-vegetarian except for people like my elder grandson, who does not like non-vegetarian curries, though he eats kebab.