Prayer for Israel

[Phil25]

Yes, it was. And why do you think I don't condemn them as well? I and other Muslim brethren condemn these political movements such as al-Qaeda, ISIL, Boko Haram, etc. more than anyone do.

Iraq and the Post-war Conflicts - ShiaChat.com

So, I differentiate the movements which do not represent these faiths and those which do. And Just as Al-Qaeda doesn't represent Islam, Zionism doesn't represent Judaism either. And again, curse be upon these criminals.

Just curious, do you believe Israel should exist? If not what alternative do you propose?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think rather than Christianity, it is more accurate to say according to the Catholic Church, reformed churches, and other Israel replacement denominations "Israel is the church". But I believe the scriptures always defines Israel as Israel.

Actually, all of traditional Christianity says that - Catholicism, Orthodoxy, traditional Protestantism such as Angelicanism, etc. Dispensationalism is a more modern concept hold to by a minority of more modern Protestant movements. That the Church is the Spiritual Israel and the fulfillment of the Israelite religion has been the normative view in Christianity since the beginning. Dual Covenant theology is also a heresy that is unknown in traditional Christianity. Jews are in the same boat as all other non-believers and, if they make it a point to reject Christ, their souls are in danger.

 

[InChrist]

Actually, all of traditional Christianity says that - Catholicism, Orthodoxy, traditional Protestantism such as Angelicanism, etc. Dispensationalism is a more modern concept hold to by a minority of more modern Protestant movements. That the Church is the Spiritual Israel and the fulfillment of the Israelite religion has been the normative view in Christianity since the beginning. Dual Covenant theology is also a heresy that is unknown in traditional Christianity. Jews are in the same boat as all other non-believers and, if they make it a point to reject Christ, their souls are in danger.

I agree that duel covenant theology is heresy and everyone including Jews must place their faith in Christ for forgiveness of sins and eternal life, yet the scriptures never say that the church is Israel. Paul clearly makes a distinction and refers to them as separate groups ... Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Gentiles or to the church of God,1 Corinthians 10:32



"Before the cross of Christ, mankind was divided into two groups: Jews and Gentiles . The Old and New Testaments both make very clear what caused this distinction. It was the covenants God had made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and with their descendants through Moses. These covenants were for Israel alone and separated her from all other nations on the face of the earth, making God's "chosen people" absolutely unique. Israel was segregated from other peoples by the Mosaic law and by her special relationship with the One who calls Himself "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" (Lev:20:24,26, etc.).

The important distinction between Jews and Gentiles is maintained consistently throughout the Bible: "...so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth" (Ex 33:16); "...for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people that ye should be mine" (Lev:20:26); "And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his...own people for ever" (1 Chr:17:21-22 ); "...ye [Gentiles] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God..." (Eph:2:12).

After the Cross a new entity came into existence—the church that Jesus Christ promised He would build (Mt 16:18). As a result, there are now three divisions of mankind: Jews, Gentiles and the church ."

Jews, Gentiles & the Church | thebereancall.org

 

[InChrist]

 

[gnostic]

Yes, it was. And why do you think I don't condemn them as well? I and other Muslim brethren condemn these political movements such as al-Qaeda, ISIL, Boko Haram, etc. more than anyone do.

And the Talibans, Hamas and Hezbollah too??? Do you condemn or curse them too?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree that duel covenant theology is heresy and everyone including Jews must place their faith in Christ for forgiveness of sins and eternal life, yet the scriptures never say that the church is Israel. Paul clearly makes a distinction and refers to them as separate groups ... Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Gentiles or to the church of God,1 Corinthians 10:32



"Before the cross of Christ, mankind was divided into two groups: Jews and Gentiles . The Old and New Testaments both make very clear what caused this distinction. It was the covenants God had made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and with their descendants through Moses. These covenants were for Israel alone and separated her from all other nations on the face of the earth, making God's "chosen people" absolutely unique. Israel was segregated from other peoples by the Mosaic law and by her special relationship with the One who calls Himself "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" (Lev:20:24,26, etc.).

The important distinction between Jews and Gentiles is maintained consistently throughout the Bible: "...so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth" (Ex 33:16); "...for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people that ye should be mine" (Lev:20:26); "And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his...own people for ever" (1 Chr:17:21-22 ); "...ye [Gentiles] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God..." (Eph:2:12).

After the Cross a new entity came into existence—the church that Jesus Christ promised He would build (Mt 16:18). As a result, there are now three divisions of mankind: Jews, Gentiles and the church ."

Jews, Gentiles & the Church | thebereancall.org

Those verses don't mean what you think they mean.

The Catholic Knight: The Catholic Church Is ISRAEL
Dispensationalism, Israel, & the Church

 

[InChrist]

Those verses don't mean what you think they mean.

The Catholic Knight: The Catholic Church Is ISRAEL
Dispensationalism, Israel, & the Church

I don't believe it's about dispensationalism or any other theology. The Catholic Church has been claiming to take the place of Israel for hundreds of years as have various other groups, but I think the verses that refer to Israel mean what the scriptures themselves interpret them to mean and if you read them in the context of the entirety of the Bible Israel always means literal Israel.

Anyway, I think we're getting rather off topic so we may have to just disagree and let it go.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't believe it's about dispensationalism or any other theology. The Catholic Church has been claiming to take the place of Israel for hundreds of years as have various other groups, but I think the verses that refer to Israel mean what the scriptures themselves interpret them to mean and if you read them in the context of the entirety of the Bible Israel always means literal Israel.

Anyway, I think we're getting rather off topic so we may have to just disagree and let it go.

Yes, we're going to have to disagree because traditional Christianity never taught what you're saying so there's no room for disagreement, to me. Yeah, we can move on.

 

[Yosef-Firstborn]

So Daniel prayed it..and that was back then, but anyone who knows scripture knows the holy spirit speaks through prophets for all ages.. so this prayer can be most def said today for todays era.



Daniel 9:3-19


So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes.

4 I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed:

“Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes and our ancestors, and to all the people of the land.

7 “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame—the people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you. 8 We and our kings, our princes and our ancestors are covered with shame, Lord, because we have sinned against you. 9 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him; 10 we have not obeyed the Lord our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.

That's a good prayer. Respect to Daniel.

 

[Matemkar]

Just curious, do you believe Israel should exist? If not what alternative do you propose?

No, I don't. And here is what is proposed:

[youtube]KUxmG_ecpq0[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUxmG_ecpq0

And the Talibans, Hamas and Hezbollah too??? Do you condemn or curse them too?

I condemn Taliban totally. But not others. As for Hamas, just like any other Muslim Brotherhood movement, it has fragments, and not a perfect leadership which sometimes ands up in tragedies. But, I believe it is getting better and better compared to other MB fragments. Hizbollah, I totally am in love with and pray for.

I hope it helps. Thanks

 

[Mycroft]

How about let's not pray for Israel.

 

[metis]

Yes, it is moral. In the end, I am not stereotyping a religion or its subscribers (Judaism and Jews), I am talking about Zionism and its followers (which includes "Jewish", "Christian", "Muslim", etc. Zionists). And I don't see any wrong in condemning a political movement which is based upon stealing the lands of people, masacring and displacing them. In fact, not doing it (disassociation from them) is problematic.

I would suggest that your "history" is not only quite a fabrication as Jews always lived in that area, plus it was us that was attacked by neighboring countries and not the other way around.

Also, if you were to be consistent, do you also believe that both Pakistan and Bangladesh should once again become part of a greater India that they originally were a part of and were also carved out by the U.N.? So, let's just see how consistent you really are.

 

[jewscout]

Hizbollah, I totally am in love with and pray for.

I hope it helps. Thanks

G-d, that's terrifying

 

[metis]

G-d, that's terrifying

Absolutely, and his support of two know and widely recognized terrorist groups pretty much tells us just how committed to peace he is.

 

[Phil25]

No, I don't. And here is what is proposed:

[youtube]KUxmG_ecpq0[/youtube]
Iran's Leader Khamenei: Armed Struggle Should Continue until Israel Is Destroyed by a Referendum - YouTube

Do you believe Nagarno-Karabakh should be part of Armenia?

 

[Flankerl]

Just how slow are you people?
It was in his avatar the entire time.
He has been a mouthpiece of the Iranian Government ever since he joined here.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/138/6/0/Birthplace_of_Jesus_a_Travesty_by_JamesRandom.jpg

Oh my how mature.

 

[mahmoud mrt]

I would suggest that your "history" is not only quite a fabrication as Jews always lived in that area, plus it was us that was attacked by neighboring countries and not the other way around.

Also, if you were to be consistent, do you also believe that both Pakistan and Bangladesh should once again become part of a greater India that they originally were a part of and were also carved out by the U.N.? So, let's just see how consistent you really are.

This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever read, (No offence), you’re not from the region thought you give yourself the right to dictate our nearby history

I’m an Egyptian Arab Muslim, my neighbor is Palestinian, He’s 78 Years old, he along with his family were expelled from their homes in 1948 by the Israeli gangs, he wept when I brought him the map of Palestine, and he remembered his home, he told me that his only wish that he can one day before he dies return to beloved home, Palestine

The Jews were only holding not more than 8% of Palestine in 1948, which they had bought, this purchase itself is criminal because its intention was to steal Palestine

All the rest 92% was stolen from the Palestinians, they were forcibly drawn out of their homes and left to live in refuges camps

May God Punish Israel for its crimes, may God help the Palestinians in returning to their stolen homes., amen

Regards,
MAhmoud

 

[metis]

This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever read, (No offence), you’re not from the region thought you give yourself the right to dictate our nearby history

I’m an Egyptian Arab Muslim, my neighbor is Palestinian, He’s 78 Years old, he along with his family were expelled from their homes in 1948 by the Israeli gangs, he wept when I brought him the map of Palestine, and he remembered his home, he told me that his only wish that he can one day before he dies return to beloved home, Palestine

The Jews were only holding not more than 8% of Palestine in 1948, which they had bought, this purchase itself is criminal because its intention was to steal Palestine

All the rest 88% was stolen from the Palestinians, they were forcibly drawn out of their homes and left to live in refuges camps

May God Punish Israel for its crimes, may God help the Palestinians in returning to their stolen homes., amen

Regards,
MAhmoud

Buying land is not "stealing".

Secondly, Israel would have remained a smaller entity than today if the neighboring countries had not repeatedly attacked it plus denying access to our holy sites, whereas Muslems have access to theirs.

Thirdly, those Palestinians displaced by the creation of Israel were to be paid for it so they could buy housing and/or land somewhere else, and those funds were to be supplied by the U.S. under agreement with the U.N. partitioning. When the neighboring states attacked, the deal was pulled off the table.

Fourthly, Many Palestinians had flocked to Israel before the separation in order to get jobs created by Jews, and this was going on starting in the late 1800's.

Fifth, Jews always lived in that region, so for you to claim otherwise is simply false.

Sixth, Jews have been kicked out of some Muslem countries, such as Yemen, plus they are not legally allowed to live in the WB and GS, so don't yell "discrimination!" when Muslems are clearly doing it to us.

Seventh, I personally don't wish any harm on anyone, nor would I ever ask God to punish anyone-- that's God's choice. Instead, I'd rather see people tyrants become much more compassionate and change their ways.

Eighth, I don't "dictate" the history of the area because the actual facts speak for themselves, and I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours.

Ninth, no offense.

Tenth, salaam.

 

[CMike]

This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever read, (No offence), you’re not from the region thought you give yourself the right to dictate our nearby history

I’m an Egyptian Arab Muslim, my neighbor is Palestinian, He’s 78 Years old, he along with his family were expelled from their homes in 1948 by the Israeli gangs, he wept when I brought him the map of Palestine, and he remembered his home, he told me that his only wish that he can one day before he dies return to beloved home, Palestine

The Jews were only holding not more than 8% of Palestine in 1948, which they had bought, this purchase itself is criminal because its intention was to steal Palestine

All the rest 92% was stolen from the Palestinians, they were forcibly drawn out of their homes and left to live in refuges camps

May God Punish Israel for its crimes, may God help the Palestinians in returning to their stolen homes., amen

Regards,
MAhmoud

There was never such a thing as an independent muslim palestine.

Before Israel it was part of the british empire. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

Before Israel there have been two previous Israeli government. One was destroyed by the Romans. The one was destroyed by the Babyolinians.

The day that there may be have been an independent paslestine, the arabs didn't accept it, and five arab countries attacked Israel.

The arab villages that remained neutral were unmolested. The arab villages that took part in destroying Israel were molested.

How his is purchasing land criminal? The arab landowners sold overprices worthless land. However, the jews came in and worked hard to make it prosperous land.

Once again, there NEVER WAS AN INDEPENDENT MUSLIM STATE. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN NOW THREE INDEPENDENT ISRAELI (JEWISH STATES) IN THAT AREA.

 

[CMike]

I forgot to mention the history is the history. It's not yours to rewrite as you see fit.

Below is a short summary.

[youtube]8EDW88CBo-8[/youtube]