Praying for answers = cheating?

[4consideration]

Attempted crimes most certainly count. And we don't need to prove they were using an outside source. If someone smuggled a two-way radio into an exam with the intent of communicating with a friend who has the textbooks and a computer, this would still be an offense even if the batteries in the radio were completely dead so that actual communication was impossible.

I don't think that actually works. The way I see it, if the person is silently praying, and praying is available to him at all time, without need for any type of external gadgets, the source of any information obtained is available to him internally at all times.

Assuming there is a purpose to exams, and that purpose being a person demonstrating the ability to produce correct answers, if he can demonstrate the ability to produce the required answers by putting his hands over his face and calling it praying, while another might call the same activity "thinking" -- even if he said he was consulting the pink bunny within -- if that is part of his always-accessible-internal-information-system -- there is no cheating.

edit: If the professor believes that, contrary to the physical evidence of the person covering his face with his hands, that what he was doing was attempting to contact someone outside of himself, I think it is incumbent upon the professor to demonstrate that God is outside the student.

 

[Brickjectivity]

A professor is overseeing the final for his philosophy of religion class. He notices that one of his students has their pen down, they have their hands over their face, and they are not paying attention to the test in any recognizable way. He goes to the student and asks if the student is ok. The student says, "yes sir, I was simply praying to God to help me answer the question". The professor takes the test and rips in half. In horror, the student exclaims, " why did you do that?!" The professor responds that, "asking for help on tests is cheating, and cheating is an automatic zero."

Thoughts? Reactions? Discussion?

Edit: This is a paraphrased example from "A Brief History of the Paradox" by Roy Sorensen

Yes it is cheating, so the prof was justified to give him a zero. A judge might disagree. On the other hand the prof should have warned the students ahead of time that praying would be counted as cheating, since other teachers don't usually count it. Also the prof will be a legal risk to the university for opposing the individual's religion since legally its a grey area for a government funded institution to discourage prayer. Legally the student may be able to get a judge to say that prayer isn't cheating.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

lmao Wow, what the hell kind of professor does that? Not that it matters much anyway, philosophy and religious classes have absolutely no value whatsoever.

 

[TheScholar]

If the student believed in Oneness, it is arguable that he was praying to god, which is composed of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and the Father. Since the Holy Spirit resides in each believer, he is praying to something internal, thus he did not cheat but summoning a power that lies internally.

Which is completely bogus, because we all know that the Holy Trinity is where its at

 

[Quintessence]

lmao Wow, what the hell kind of professor does that? Not that it matters much anyway, philosophy and religious classes have absolutely no value whatsoever.

Can I confess that I'm extremely surprised and befuddled that you would take such a perspective given the kinds of topics you tend to post around here? :thud:

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Can I confess that I'm extremely surprised and befuddled that you would take such a perspective given the kinds of topics you tend to post around here? :thud:

Can I confess that, despite the content of his threads, this statement finally makes everything make sense?

 

[Windwalker]

lmao Wow, what the hell kind of professor does that? Not that it matters much anyway, philosophy and religious classes have absolutely no value whatsoever.

A very self-contradictory statement for someone who has over 12,000 posts on a forum devoted to religious and philosophical areas of discussion. I'll be you don't have that many posts on the "My Little Pony" discussion forums. Maybe religion and philosophy are more relevant to you and others in society than you care to admit to you?

 

[Koldo]

A very self-contradictory statement for someone who has over 12,000 posts on a forum devoted to religious and philosophical areas of discussion. I'll be you don't have that many posts on the "My Little Pony" discussion forums. Maybe religion and philosophy are more relevant to you and others in society than you care to admit to you?

Actually, he mentioned specifically "philosophy and religious classes". Most of what ( or maybe even everything ) he learned about philosophy and religion didn't come from classes. I am still curious why he said that though.

 

[Windwalker]

Actually, he mentioned specifically "philosophy and religious classes". Most of what ( or maybe even everything ) he learned about philosophy and religion didn't come from classes. I am still curious why he said that though.

I did notice that but found it still pertinent. If religion and philosophy are so impactful to our lives that people devote so much energy to dealing with these issues in forums like these, it is clear that having a better knowledge and understanding of them is pertinent to everyone. People filter through themselves ideas and values and adopt entire worldviews that are a direct result of philosophical and religious perspectives that enter into our cultures. Everyone without exception is affected and impacted by them, even if they have no idea what they are or where they came from.

So to help identify them in these ways for students growing up and becoming educated, helps to create a more educated perspective of them. Knowing this helps to weigh and consider options, and better understand the progressions of cultures and societies and consequently their own culture and their own views. The need to better understand these things is evidenced on sites like this where lay people try to chew off the edges of these things in order to better understand themselves and the worlds they live in. Then for someone to say such a focus for students is a waste of time, is betrayed by the fact it is hardly that to them later in life. It's like saying studying history is a waste of time.

 

[ametist]

Teachers do such things to make their point clear and to make the teaching easy.
I remember a prof. not giving the answer to a question for two class waiting for us to find the answer.
I am sure the student with ripped off paper will get another chance.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Far from saying the topics themselves are useless. Only saying that getting degrees in the topics or passing those classes is not worth the time and effort. There's not a lot of good careers that come from them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I could easily make another argument in the fact that prayer does not have an external recipient so your prayers only go to yourself. So in short the student just talked to himself and asked help from nobody.

 

[idav]

I could easily make another argument in the fact that prayer does not have an external recipient so your prayers only go to yourself. So in short the student just talked to himself and asked help from nobody.

I keep seeing this argument yet would be something that comes from an atheist not somebody who believes in god. Obviously if people think it is simply internal there wouldnt be an issue but praying to a specific god for an specific answer must be worth something to the theist or else why out it like that. Many may think it just amounts to internal stuff but to the theist this would not be the case based on faith. Claryvoyence would amount to the same claim as if a person can get the answers from what a neighbor is thinking or something similar.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I keep seeing this argument yet would be something that comes from an atheist not somebody who believes in god. Obviously if people think it is simply internal there wouldnt be an issue but praying to a specific god for an specific answer must be worth something to the theist or else why out it like that. Many may think it just amounts to internal stuff but to the theist this would not be the case based on faith. Claryvoyence would amount to the same claim as if a person can get the answers from what a neighbor is thinking or something similar.

Most Philosophy professors I know are atheists so I would not see a professor int his field be angry or consider praying cheating, just moronic.

 

[idav]

Most Philosophy professors I know are atheists so I would not see a professor int his field be angry or consider praying cheating, just moronic.

I suppose but that is why intent is an interesting question. Surely someone who believes they are getting outside answers shouldnt be doing so in good conscience to circumvent good old fashion study. Another reason I feel I interesting it is a philosophy class. If it were math the person has to show their work and prove they know how they got such an answer and amounts to following logic.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I suppose but that is why intent is an interesting question. Surely someone who believes they are getting outside answers shouldnt be doing so in good conscience to circumvent good old fashion study. Another reason I feel I interesting it is a philosophy class. If it were math the person has to show their work and prove they know how they got such an answer and amounts to following logic.

Ahhhh I did not take this into account. very good observation I must say :yes:. To some extent this seems to be the failure of science and god. Science can observe whether or not god actively takes actions in the universe.

 

[Sees]

Ahhhh I did not take this into account. very good observation I must say :yes:. To some extent this seems to be the failure of science and god. Science can observe whether or not god actively takes actions in the universe.

Science can observe a small part of the observable universe that is measurable, repeatable. It's baby steps.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Science can observe a small part of the observable universe that is measurable, repeatable. It's baby steps.

Yet every time a person claims to have seen the light or experienced a miracle it is in a place with nobody around. Science has tried observing everything yet certain things do not exist

 

[Sees]

Yet every time a person claims to have seen the light or experienced a miracle it is in a place with nobody around. Science has tried observing everything yet certain things do not exist

And it's assumptions are always turned into facts for the masses...even in areas that are drastically changing every few years. Of the stuff we can measure and observe now think of the percentage 50 years ago, 100 years ago. If we are here 200 years from now it's still a lofty idea we could measure and test "spiritual" stuffs.

We can do a demo over and over again with my oft-used example where a person can accurately (degrees and variations) locate a person staring at you from a good distance even though outside your normal senses and you won't hear a scientific explanation any time soon. Is it real or the strangest of luck/coincidence? :areyoucra

 

[Windwalker]

Far from saying the topics themselves are useless. Only saying that getting degrees in the topics or passing those classes is not worth the time and effort. There's not a lot of good careers that come from them.

So you're a believer that the only good education is a vocational one, and not one that includes broadenings one's perspective through the humanities? That is what this amounts to. It's my view that any vocation is enhanced through a broad education which of necessity includes the liberal arts.

BTW, you were deriding the presence of classes in these areas altogether without mentioning degrees programs in them. Getting degrees in them is a different matter, and still has value but at a different level than just exposing everyone to them.