Pre-Big Bang

[We Never Know]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

 

[John53]

No idea and I doubt it will be sorted out in my lifetime but I'm sure it will eventually be worked out

 

[Altfish]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

Not a clue ... but isn't it exciting, scientists will be losing sleep over it
We may never know but here's hoping.

 

[Heyo]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.

Or our understanding of time is not applicable to the question. If time is a dimension of spacetime and didn't exist, there is no "before". It would be as meaningless as "up" and "down" would be to a 2-dimensional entity.

 

[PureX]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

"Came from" is a bit overly simplistic. The universe (existence as we know it) isn't an object that had to have come from some productive/creative source. It's more like an event taking place within it's own reality. It is it's own source in that sense.

However, this event is being determined by what is possible for it, and what is not possible, within it. And those possibilities and limitations were being imposed upon this event from the outset. And the questions to us is how is that possible if we consider this event to be the whole of existence? Because it certainly appears that these possibilities and limitations pre-existed this existential event. And yet that makes no sense to us.

We don't know. And because we exist within the event itself, and we are therefor subject to it's possibilities and it's limitations, we have no way of exploring any possible origin or state outside or beyond the existence that we inhabit. It is a conundrum that we cannot resolve.

 

[ChristineM]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

Awesome...

I know of 32 hypothesis on what caused the bb. Every one is either mathematically sound or extrapolated from known conditions.

And everyone is essentially a guess because it is unknown.

I like this
Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing
Not my favourite but one i present when people say something cannot come from nothing.

 

[PureX]

Not a clue ... but isn't it exciting, scientists will be losing sleep over it
We may never know but here's hoping.

The scientists will be fine with it. They're used to unsolved mysteries. Keeps them in business. It's the scientism crowd that can't allow for any possibility of a 'supra-existence'.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

Not sure if that's where you're trying to go here, but in any case...
Theists who present this (false?) problem, pretend they solve it by putting a god there at the beginning.
But then they just move the question...

You can ask the exact same question with god as the subject.
Either god came from something that existed which we can't understand yet or god came from something that didn't exist.

Then they "solve" that by trivially / arbitrarily claiming "ow, but god always existed so didn't require to 'come' from anywhere".

Well, if you can do that with god, then I can do that with whatever triggered the big bang. Or even the universe itself and just say that the big bang is just the expansion of the universe that always existed.

Occam's Razor would favor my claim over the theist claim, since mine doesn't require the assumption of additional (and unevidenced ) entities.




Off course, then only actually correct answer here, is that it is currently simply unknown.
The origins of the universe (of the big bang) remain currently unknown.

There are good motivations that it came from an eternal multi-verse (as in: certain theories predict such a thing, nobody arbitrarily suggested such... it's just the math that spews it out).

 

[wellwisher]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

We live in space-time where space and time are connected. As we move in space, time propagates. For example, a photon of energy has wavelength and frequency which are connected measures of distance and time; space and time. This union of space with time, as velocity= d/t is limited to the speed of light, where d divided by t, is how space and time are connected within motion.

What would happen if space and time were not connected. Rather say each variable; distance; space, or time could act independently of each other. We could no longer have energy or photons, since wavelength and frequency would not be connected. Instead we would have wavelength separated from frequency, and frequency separated from wavelength. The universe would have the raw materials needed to make energy, but since these are not connected, the universe would not have energy. To us the universe would appear formless and void. The union of space-time is what gives it the limits needed to give the universe form, energy, and not appear void.

If we could move in distance, without the constraint of time; disconnected space-time, we could be anywhere in the universe in zero time. This is classically called omnipresence, which is an attribute of God. If we could mov in time, not hindered by distance, we would know what is going one all over the universe, at the same time. This is the classic attribute of God called omniscience.The old timers were on to something.

The current material and inertial universe is based on space-time. Mathematically, space and time, being separated, would more fundamental; raw materials, and came before. It is when space and time, finally join, that space-time appears. With this union, energy and the known laws of physics, appear; Let there be light; d/t!

The inflation period of the universe, where the universe expands faster than the speed of light, would space-time, plus some extra distance potential, allowing the seeds of space-time to exceed the speed of light; space-time plus a dash of omnipresence.

The question that arises is can we demonstrate separated space and time in the lab? Quantum physics is one way. Quantum pairs that move in space coordinated in time is an example of extra time potential; t, added to space-time.

Another way is to consider the human imagination. I can imagine flying to the moon with the wings of a bird, and get there faster than the speed of light. This is not possible in physical realty and/or in space-time, since I would exceed the stress limits of known space-time materials, while also exceeding the speed of light. However, this would be conceptually possible if space and time were not connected, then those limits do not apply. The human imagination, which comes from the material space-time based brain, is able to process information, in ways that are not limited to space-time. I can imagine things that would violate the laws of physics and therefore are not part of space-time.

Space and time, that are disconnected, is how the imagination can process information, in ways that are not consistent with space-time; religion. Science goes to great efforts to make sure theory stays within the limits of space-time. Theory that may not be provable in space-time; moon is made of cheese, is not connected properly to space-time, but is based on dissociated space-time where anything can go; infinite entropy.

All innovation starts in the imagination, with the organization of ideas not initially part of physical reality and/or limited to space-time. It often exists initially in the matrix of the imagination, and may not become a tangible part of space-time, until the future; added time potential.

This seems to suggest that the universal imagination, in the dimension inhabited by divided space and time, was the innovator matrix that led to space-time; brooding over the deep. We had to wait until the time was right; Booom!

 

[PureX]

Not sure if that's where you're trying to go here, but in any case...
Theists who present this (false?) problem, pretend they solve it by putting a god there at the beginning.
But then they just move the question...

You can ask the exact same question with god as the subject.
Either god came from something that existed which we can't understand yet or god came from something that didn't exist.

Then they "solve" that by trivially / arbitrarily claiming "ow, but god always existed so didn't require to 'come' from anywhere".

Well, if you can do that with god, then I can do that with whatever triggered the big bang. Or even the universe itself and just say that the big bang is just the expansion of the universe that always existed.

Occam's Razor would favor my claim over the theist claim, since mine doesn't require the assumption of additional (and unevidenced ) entities.




Off course, then only actually correct answer here, is that it is currently simply unknown.
The origins of the universe (of the big bang) remain currently unknown.

There are good motivations that it came from an eternal multi-verse (as in: certain theories predict such a thing, nobody arbitrarily suggested such... it's just the math that spews it out).

That we don't know is true. But that doesn't help us live with the mystery. So both atheists and theists invent labels and concepts that they can use to fill in for their lack of knowing.

"Scientism" and "God" have a lot in common in that they both fulfill the same purpose for their adherents. They create the illusion of knowing what we cannot know, so we can feel less insecure about our not knowing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

No thoughts necessary, nothing can not exist. Science can not provide any hard evidence of nothing, nor can religion.
Existence otoh exists, it does nothing else. Science can not provide any hard evidence of existence never existing, nor can religion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That we don't know is true. But that doesn't help us live with the mystery.

??

I don't get what you are trying to say.
The way to solve the "mystery" is to role up your sleeves and get to work. Not just invent stuff out of thin air.
Is it annoying that we don't know? Sure. So what?

So both atheists and theists invent labels and concepts that they can use to fill in for their lack of knowing.

???

What labels am I "inventing"?
I'm not the one who's positing unevidence, undetectable, unfalsifiable mysterious entities to "explain away" other mysteries.

In fact, I would say that you can't explain a mystery by appealing to another mystery.
That's not explaining anything. That's just drowning yourself in ignorance.

I'm content with "i don't know" when I don't know.
Would I like to know? Sure. I also would like a billion dollars. Fooling myself into believing I have a billion dollars when I don't, isn't going to amount to anything useful.

"Scientism" and "God" have a lot in common in that they both fulfill the same purpose for their adherents. They create the illusion of knowing what we cannot know, so we can feel less insecure about our not knowing.

No idea who or what you are referring to.

 

[metis]

There are too many possibilities, thus I now take the position that most Buddhists do, namely to more focus on the here and now.

 

[Soandso]

Physics and astrophycics aren't really an interest of mine, but if time began with the big bang, how does anything exist before that? There can be no "before" without time. That would be like asking what came before the beginning of infinity. The question itself is a paradox

Then again, I'm ignorant on the topic, so maybe someone else can find an answer to that question

 

[metis]

Physics and astrophycics aren't really an interest of mine, but if time began with the big bang, how does anything exist before that? There can be no "before" without time. That would be like asking what came before the beginning of infinity. The question itself is a paradox

Then again, I'm ignorant on the topic, so maybe someone else can find an answer to that question

Well, at least "time" as we typically think it is.

There are many hypotheses on what caused the BB according to cosmologists, thus no single one stands out as being most probable.

 

[PureX]

Physics and astrophycics aren't really an interest of mine, but if time began with the big bang, how does anything exist before that? There can be no "before" without time. That would be like asking what came before the beginning of infinity. The question itself is a paradox

Then again, I'm ignorant on the topic, so maybe someone else can find an answer to that question

It's a good question.

Space-time is the envelope within which the event we call the universe is taking place. And we not only exist within that event, we are a part of it as it's happening. It's all we know. It's all that exists as far as we can experience it. And yet when we observe the way this existential event is unfolding, we observe that it is organized, and controlled. Even purposeful. Some things can and do happen while other things cannot and so do not happen. And it's been this way from the start. Which would indicate that something, somehow, was controlling this event from "outside" it, of "beyond" it, and from "before" it happened. But what can those words even mean to us in this context? What can "exist" before space and time or matter and energy existed? Even the question is incoherent. And yet there it is. The most profound mystery of all. A mystery within which hides the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is. Including us.

 

[Soandso]

It's a good question.

Space-time is the envelope within which the event we call the universe is taking place. And we not only exist within that event, we are a part of it as it's happening. It's all we know. It's all that exists as far as we can experience it. And yet when we observe the way this existential event is unfolding, we observe that it is organized, and controlled. Even purposeful. Some things can and do happen while other things cannot and so do not happen. And it's been this way from the start. Which would indicate that something, somehow, was controlling this event from "outside" it, of "beyond" it, and from "before" it happened. But what can those words even mean to us in this context? What can "exist" before space and time or matter and energy existed? Even the question is incoherent. And yet there it is. The most profound mystery of all. A mystery within which hides the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is. Including us.

I'd have to disagree. I haven't seen enough to come to the conclusion that any of this is organized or that anything has a hand in it's direction other than the confines of nature

Like I said before, physics aren't really my thing, but if concepts like perfection or anything else we try to attribute to the structure of the universe actually existed, we'd find a tangible example of it. Instead what we see is entropy and the cooling of the universe. It seems things are going in one chaotic direction, just like an avalanche. That doesn't need design, it just needs a catalyst

If anything exists beyond that, I think that requires the human mind to give it a face, just like we give faces to all other things we dream of - whether they are reflected in objective reality or not

Who know's, though? Paradoxes have been solved in the past. Let's see!

 

[PureX]

I'd have to disagree. I haven't seen enough to come to the conclusion that any of this is organized or that anything has a hand in it's direction other than the confines of nature

If there were no organizing possibilities and limitations, nothing could happen but chaos. You say you see no organization, yet what do you think the scientists are seeking to understand if not how physical existence is organized? By what is possible, and what is not possible at any given time and under any given circumstance. That's the whole point of experimentation. To find out what is possible and what is not under a specific set of circumstances.

When a woman becomes pregnant she cannot give birth to a ostrich or an orangutan. It's not possible. And the whole universe is being controlled and formed by what is and is not possible. And it always has been. But how? How were those possibilities and limitations determined? How did they come to govern the expression of existence that we call 'the universe'? And why? And is there a purpose to it?

We do not have the answers.

 

[Ella S.]

Or our understanding of time is not applicable to the question. If time is a dimension of spacetime and didn't exist, there is no "before". It would be as meaningless as "up" and "down" would be to a 2-dimensional entity.

I would agree with the caveat that the Big Bang technically began slightly after T=0, so there's still an extremely short frame of time where we can ask questions about what caused the Big Bang. There are a variety of theoretical models with different explanations.

From our perspective, if we went back in time before the Big Bang, it would seem like there was infinite time due to how spacetime itself shrinks the further back you go. When we actually model time this early, it approaches T=0 through a curve without ever actually touching it.

Time isn't actually infinite during that period, importantly. It would just seem that way to someone moving backwards through time, due to time itself shrinking.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Pre-Big Bang....
Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is".......................

Everything came from something that existed -> God - Psalms 90:2; Isaiah 40:26
Pre-Big Bang the God of the Bible existed 'before' creation. God being from everlasting........
When un-created God sent forth His spirit things were then created - Psalms 104:30
Thus, God's Strength and Power supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy needed to create the visible world.
Kind of like God's spirit was the power grid just like a power plant sends out the necessary needed power to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.