Pre-Big Bang

[Heyo]

What error, do you think you are your body?

And you think that there are more or less evolved beings on Earth at a given time. We are all equally evolved, from the smallest protozoon to the smartest dolphin as we all had the same time to evolve. Australopithecines are only less evolved than homo sapience because they are evolutionary older. Evolution has no goal, it only is the constant adaptation to a changing environment.
But I guess that is also due to miscommunication since you don't use biology textbooks when you talk about evolution, am I right?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And you think that there are more or less evolved beings on Earth at a given time. We are all equally evolved, from the smallest protozoon to the smartest dolphin as we all had the same time to evolve. Australopithecines are only less evolved than homo sapience because they are evolutionary older. Evolution has no goal, it only is the constant adaptation to a changing environment.
But I guess that is also due to miscommunication since you don't use biology textbooks when you talk about evolution, am I right?

If you self-identify fully with your body and don't know that there is soul, then your next step in evolution is to find out you do. Just like a school, there are many grades of evolutionary development among the contemporary human race. Few there are in the top grade, but they understand what and who they really are in the context of universal being;

 

[Heyo]

If you self-identify fully with your body and don't know that there is soul, then your next step in evolution is to find out you do. Just like a school, there are many grades of evolutionary development among the contemporary human race. Few there are in the top grade, but they understand what and who they really are in the context of universal being;

If you don't know how your body and especially your brain works and you imagine there to be a soul, then your next step is to get rid of your ignorance and your superstition. That isn't called evolution, that's called "growing up".
See, I can make unsubstantiated claims just as good as you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If you don't know how your bosy and especially your brain works and you imagine there to be a soul, then your next step is to get rid of your ignorance and your superstition. That isn't called evolution, that's called "growing up".
See, I can make unsubstantiated claims just as good as you.

Have you ever meditated to the point where your mind is still, no thought processes, then come back to me and say there is no soul. Thing is, when there is no thought, the self-identification with the body also stops, However, there is prerequisite evolutionary development required to be able to still the mind, some of the grades are far from it. But regardless, if you have never tried to still the mind, it will take time, months, perhaps years of practice even, Consider religious practice as speeding up the evolutionary process.

 

[metis]

Fine for those who are still at the belief stage, but there are further initiations for the religious aspirant, the next stage involves the transcending of belief to actually realize that which the belief represents.

That's automatic with belief as beliefs are always based on what is represented by them. For example, if I say that there are unicorns running around, then that must be based on something even it was delusional.

Beliefs about there being a god or gods are based on what? I believe there is, but mine isn't derived from objectively derived evidence, which is not available, but from a long stream of experiences I had that were very confusing and quite unwanted at first.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's automatic with belief as beliefs are always based on what is represented by them. For example, if I say that there are unicorns running around, then that must be based on something even it was delusional.

Beliefs about there being a god or gods are based on what? I believe there is, but mine isn't derived from objectively derived evidence, which is not available, but from a long stream of experiences I had that were very confusing and quite unwanted at first.

Yes, actual direct spiritual experience is the stage beyond belief. That's what the atheists don't understand, belief is a starting point, the spiritual experience comes later to those who prove to be worthy. Lots of trials on the way.

 

[We Never Know]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

Here's a good example of why I start some threads that I do. Its about discussion between us all and 200+ comments in a week is good discussion.
Funny how that works out

 

[JIMMY12345]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

I do not understand it.However according to Bill Bryson and Simon Singh (Big Bang).There is no pre time pre space before the big bang.There was no blackness emptiness no time nothing.
It was a Roman Catholic Belgian priest Georges Lemaitre(who loved a good bottle of wine) to come up with the original theory that Einstein gave his approval to.It neatly can agree with Catholic theology very comfortably.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Pre-Big Bang....

Either everything came from something that existed which we can't yet understand or everything came from something that didn't exist.
Or poof there it is. Not to be confused with the song "Whoomp there it is"

No poll, just thoughts and comments.

My hypothesis is that there is no "pre-big bang." Can time exist in the absence of a universe?

Space, time, and causation are a package deal that exist within a universe. No universe...no time...no "pre."

This might be a hypothesis of others...didn't read the thread or bother checking to see if it is.

 

[muhammad_isa]

My hypothesis is that there is no "pre-big bang." Can time exist in the absence of a universe

Is time "a thing" that exists?
I thought that it was defined as a measurement, in relation to space.

Space, time, and causation are a package deal that exist within a universe. No universe...no time...no "pre."

That is just saying that nothing can exist outside of this universe..
OR that nothing can exist before the universe appeared.

One cannot make such a conclusion based on physics, as it becomes a circular argument.
i.e. we define time as relative to the universe, and then conclude that it IS only a property of the universe

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is time "a thing" that exists?
I thought that it was defined as a measurement, in relation to space.

Are measurements not "things?"

That is just saying that nothing can exist outside of this universe..
OR that nothing can exist before the universe appeared.

It's saying there is no "before." The term "before" is meaningless in the absence of time.

Since time, space, and causation are internet to a universe, what can exist outside a universe?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Since time, space, and causation are internet to a universe, what can exist outside a universe?

A very bad argument..
You define everything in terms of this universe, and then conclude that nothing can exist outside of this universe.
What about a multiverse?
Top scientists have not ruled it out.

 

[SalixIncendium]

A very bad argument..
You define everything in terms of this universe, and then conclude that nothing can exist outside of this universe.
What about a multiverse?
Top scientists have not ruled it out.

You're making an assumption. Where did I say "this universe?"

 

[muhammad_isa]

You're making an assumption. Where did I say "this universe?"

OK .. but if you are saying that "there is no before", in the absence of time due to the absence of this universe, you imply that no alternate universe can exist outside this universe BEFORE it appeared.

i.e. you are making it all about this universe

 

[SalixIncendium]

OK .. but if you are saying that "there is no before", in the absence of time due to the absence of this universe, you imply that no alternate universe can exist outside this universe BEFORE it appeared.

i.e. you are making it all about this universe

I'm not saying. You're inferring.

I'm not implying. You're inferring.

Stop reading into things that aren't there.

I'm simply hypothesizing that time does not exist in the absence of a (not this) universe. I made no claims about alternate universes.

You're building straw men.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm simply hypothesizing that time does not exist in the absence of a (not this) universe.

You said "My hypothesis is that there is no "pre-big bang.".

..looks clear enough to me.
..and I said "You define everything in terms of this universe, and then conclude that nothing can exist outside of this universe."

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nothing can not exist ever. If someone thinks so, please describe how nothing became not nothing?

That btw is why existence is eternal, nothing has never existed because nothing can't exist.