BSM1
What? Me worry?
Should have quoted Isaiah 45:7 to him.
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Priest refused to absolve me :-(
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Should have quoted Isaiah 45:7 to him.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Don't get me started
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Yeah i hear that, i box with christianity a ton. I cant help it, i grew up with catholicism, and fundamental baptists.Don't get me started
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I am sorry to hear that. Your priest was incompetent at best. It is his job to deal with the doubts of Catholics. Accusing you of blaming God is not a valid way to deal with your questions. But perhaps he has doubts himself and you may have struck a nerve by bringing up exactly the problems he saw with God.
Can you find me a confession booth in the Bible?
Can you find me anyone in the scriptures but Jesus Christ who was authorised to forgive sins?
No sinful human can absolve himself of his own sins, let alone anyone else's.
Did you know that there were no priests in original Christianity? They had a body of elders who consulted together in caring for the flock. No one man was in charge of any congregation. There was no special clothing and no titles. All in the congregation were "brothers"...even the teachers.
They had no elaborate buildings either because money was spent on supporting the poor not on housing the rich.
It was not wrong of you to express your beliefs and I am assuming that it is his job to address your concerns. Perhaps he could have made an appointment to discuss these matters with you at a later time?
It appears to your way of thinking that you are correct....but he should not have let you go at least without trying to give you some answers. Perhaps he was feeling inadequate about not having any answers?
Nothing wrong with being honest. But it seems strange to me that you would want to be forgiven by a God you just accused of being the cause of all human suffering. How could you even want to love or worship a God like that?
Axe Elf
Prophet
That's what I was going to say. I guess the good Father would not have absolved Isaiah of his sins, either.
EDIT: Oh wait, it was the Lord himself speaking in that verse. So the good Father would not have absolved the Lord of His sins (but that's ok, since the Lord can't sin).
I can't find any biblical canon in the Bible either.
I'm starting think that it would have been better had the Church never put the canon together. The notion that Scripture stands independently of Sacred Tradition is an error. Without the authority of tradition there is no coherent justification for the authority of Scripture. To insist on the authority Scripture yet deny the authority of the tradition that decided on the Scriptures in the first place is textbook question begging.
Yes. Matthew 16:19
Of course, I'm sure you have a predetermined sectarian answer memorized.
This is a strawman. The Church does not teach that individuals can absolve themselves of sin. It teaches that the priest, acting on behalf of the Church in persona Christi is empowered to effect the Sacraments. One of those Sacraments is the absolution of sin. And yes, the Church was given that power by Jesus himself as attested in Matthew. The actual person of the priest is in and of himself irrelevant.
I'm no more inclined to believe this as having any historical or scriptural backing then you are to accept the Catholic Church as being the one in the same Church explicitly set up by Jesus. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so.
I remember hearing it said once that you can tell what a civilization values by its biggest and grandest buildings. There was a time when the biggest and grandest buildings dotted all over the Christian world (buildings admired to this day) were temples dedicated to the worship of God. Only someone reared in a culturally myopic puritanism is blind to their value. Yes, your form of Christianity is essentially a modern incarnation of Puritanism, albeit with a doctrinal twist.
Of course the Catholic Church doesn't need those cathedrals. We'll go back to the catacombs if need be. The Church will also continue to do more for the poor than any other singular institution.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That reminds me of a statement my LDS bishop once said: "Your salvation is between you and the Lord. It's not between you and your bishop or even between you and the President of the Church/the Prophet. It's between you and the Lord. Period."
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yeah, it's in the verse right after the mention of a Kingdom Hall.
Employing rational argument with a priest?
That wouldn't end well.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
the sacrament of confession comes from the verse where Jesus breathed on the apostles and said "receive the Holy Spirit those whose sins you forgive are forgiven those whose sins you retain are retained"
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You may have misinterpreted my comment, Pope. It just bugs me when people apply a double-standard, and certain individuals seem to do this regularly. Mormons believe in the sacrament of confession, too, although we don't have a "confessional."
By the way, did that experience really happen to you or did you just post what you suspected your priest's response would be had you told him what you were thinking?
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dfnj
Well-Known Member
You need to pay him more money.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The priest literally refused to grant me absolution
Tell him to p@#$% off.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Yes, I'm aware that's how Christians historically interpreted that verse. A question:
Is that Jesus putting the authority to forgive in the hands of men, or only the authority to declare forgiveness with God acting?
What did you expect?!?!?!
Ultimately God acting, and priest is the intermediary.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Well it has the lineage, so only Rome says so. What makes Rome an authority? Does Rome have the authority to tell the Eastern Church their lineage is invalid as well?
Henry didn't found the Anglican Church as we have it today. Anglicanism as we have it today came about because Rome excommunicated Elizabeth and the then sitting Archbishop of Canterbury.
Mary I had brought about an uneasy reunification with Rome, and ironically- they were just fine with her retaining the powers her father had given the Monarchy. Because they knew Mary would never use those powers against them.
The first Church of England died there. Today's Anglican rite is not Henry's reformation movement. In fact, it is virtually indistinguishable from the Roman rite.
Today's Church of England came after Elizabeth inherited the sweeping powers of the Monarchy from Mary. Then she refused to persecute Protestants or debar them from the church life at the behest of the Pope, so she was excommunicated.
This coincides with the ratification of the Elizabethan Settlement by Parliament. That the Church in England is to be Catholic and Reformed- and admit Protestants to the fullness of the church life.
So you see- the existence of today's Anglican Church is not so different from the way Rome thought it could declare the Eastern Rites anathema in 1054.
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