Priest who supports gay marriage will not submit

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Father Heathen,

What a dishonest twisting of my statement.
I'm not "anti-life", I just believe that there is far more to love, sex and relationships than merely squeezing out one screaming snotling after another.

The way you describe what would be a beautiful human baby being brought into this world as just another 'screaming snotling' pretty much confirms your anti-life stance to me.

Isn't your stance on overpopulation also anti-life? You want less human life around, more human life being a negative for the world, thus anti-life.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Smoke,

It's not the number, but the content.

Well, that makes more sense.

 

[darkendless]

The Church does recognize the unique situation where a couple cannot procreate but still affords the special connection that only a man and woman can have as they become one.

Why is it more special than 2 men or 2 women? Just out of curiosity?

Yes, you have shown a complete ignorance of the teachings of the RCC regarding homosexuality yet your sweeping statements have been quite confident.

Have I? Since you people can never agree what your churrch actually teaches perhaps you could enlighten me?

I do believe we have priests that have homosexual tendencies. But they must remain chaste.

Denying ones true feelings is unhealthy. How can the church ask its preists to be chaste just because they're homosexual. Seems a little strange to me.

If you are asking of a person can be a practicing homosexual and be in full communion with the Church, probably not. If they don't believe their homosexuality is a sin, then no. This is not oppressive or discriminatory because nobody is forcing them to be a Catholic.

See this is the issue. Preaching that homosexuality is a sin is the problem. Thats why i said when your church gets over it and comes into the 21st century they will get more respect.

What this shows though is that church dogma over-rides unconditional love. Shame catholics are so far from Jesus.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hi Father Heathen,



The way you describe what would be a beautiful human baby being brought into this world as just another 'screaming snotling' pretty much confirms your anti-life stance to me.

Isn't your stance on overpopulation also anti-life? You want less human life around, more human life being a negative for the world, thus anti-life.

I'm for improving quality for the life that already exists, rather than just mindlessly pumping out the numbers. There is more to life than simply propagating the species. You look upon humanity as if it were nothing more than an insect colony, existing only to multiply and consume. Love between people, regardless of their gender, goes far beyond that.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hi Meth,



What Ordeet asked was logically incoherent because the essential structures of a government and RCC are totally different.



First, I wouldn't know what that means. But if there was a great conflict I would leave. Of course this is the dilemma; a person cannot be a practicing homosexual and follow the RCC's teachings. They are in complete conflict, you would have to choose one or the other.



Well, that's the assumption from our culture. That homosexuality, for some people is just who they are. I reject that assumption. I don't think that it has been proven whether homosexuality is genetic, hormonal or environmental (or some combination). And I am not suggesting that rejecting homosexuality is easy, but that is besides the point.

You're also welcome to just answer the question instead of.. well.. not.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Hi Luis,

I think this makes it pretty obvious that heterosxual relationships are superior to homosexual relationships because the creation of life is obviously superior to the inability to create life.

So then the logic follows that heterosexual marriages that produce kids are superior to marriages that don't. Would you agree that the government should stop all couples from getting married who can't have kids because of the inferior nature of their relationship. It might also be a good idea to stop women over middle age from getting married. They will have an inferior relationship also due to the fact they can't have kids.

Now if a gay couple adopts two children. A heterosexual husband and wife chooses to have no kids. Is the gay couple better?

It is also true that Jewish marriages create smarter kids who are better educated and less likely to go to prison then christian marriages. On the average Jewish Children are much more value added to american society then Christian kids. So would you say that Jewish marriages are superior to Christian marriages.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi dark,

Why is it more special than 2 men or 2 women? Just out of curiosity?

I believe the complimentary nature of the relationship is unique and can produce an union of one flesh that a same-sex relationship cannot.

Have I? Since you people can never agree what your churrch actually teaches perhaps you could enlighten me?

Well, obviously as Catholics we are called to love. And we love homosexuals and the Church teaches that they should never be oppressed or discriminated against. But we are also called to minister to homosexuals because homosexual acts are disordered acts according to the Church. Now, this is a delicate issue. Homosexuals will feel attacked and hated, but that is where we try to bring the heart of Jesus to them. We also are not homophobic, I'm not afraid of homosexuals. My uncle is gay, I love him. We had his surprise 50th birthday party at a gay bar in Milwaukee.

Denying ones true feelings is unhealthy. How can the church ask its preists to be chaste just because they're homosexual. Seems a little strange to me.

What one may believe is their true feelings isn't always good for them. This is why the issue is so delicate. And Catholic priests are to be chaste no matter if they are homosexual or heterosexual.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Father Heathen,

I'm for improving quality for the life that already exists, rather than just mindlessly pumping out the numbers. There is more to life than simply propagating the species. You look upon humanity as if it were nothing more than an insect colony, existing only to multiply and consume. Love between people, regardless of their gender, goes far beyond that.

What an absurd straw man of what the RCC teaches about procreation. You don't believe Catholics actually believe any of that do you?

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe the complimentary nature of the relationship is unique and can produce an union of one flesh that a same-sex relationship cannot.

How so? What variables make the love between a same sex couple somehow less genuine than the love between an opposite sex couple?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Meth,

You're also welcome to just answer the question instead of.. well.. not.

I answered the best I could, the question is bogus because governments and private organizations are completely different.

 

[Father Heathen]

What an absurd straw man of what the RCC teaches about procreation. You don't believe Catholics actually believe any of that do you?

Did you not imply that the inability to breed invalidates love?

 

[darkendless]

I believe the complimentary nature of the relationship is unique and can produce an union of one flesh that a same-sex relationship cannot.

I guess, if you believe it i can't really knock faith with facts, it has no affect anyway.

Well, obviously as Catholics we are called to love. And we love homosexuals and the Church teaches that they should never be oppressed or discriminated against. But we are also called to minister to homosexuals because homosexual acts are disordered acts according to the Church. Now, this is a delicate issue. Homosexuals will feel attacked and hated, but that is where we try to bring the heart of Jesus to them. We also are not homophobic, I'm not afraid of homosexuals. My uncle is gay, I love him. We had his surprise 50th birthday party at a gay bar in Milwaukee.

Why can't you accept and embrace people for exactly who they are, as god made them?

What one may believe is their true feelings isn't always good for them. This is why the issue is so delicate. And Catholic priests are to be chaste no matter if they are homosexual or heterosexual.

I thought as much, i couldn't remember if they were all chaste or not, thanks.

The bad thing about religions though is that they will always say they are good, even when they're not. Priests are programmed to give the churches opinion and not their best opinion.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Wannbe,

So then the logic follows that heterosexual marriages that produce kids are superior to marriages that don't. Would you agree that the government should stop all couples from getting married who can't have kids because of the inferior nature of their relationship. It might also be a good idea to stop women over middle age from getting married. They will have an inferior relationship also due to the fact they can't have kids.

Now if a gay couple adopts two children. A heterosexual husband and wife chooses to have no kids. Is the gay couple better?

It is also true that Jewish marriages create smarter kids who are better educated and less likely to go to prison then christian marriages. On the average Jewish Children are much more value added to american society then Christian kids. So would you say that Jewish marriages are superior to Christian marriages.

The question of couples that cannot procreate comes up. The uniquness of the friendship between the husband and wife is there and that is why it is the only relationship that can have sexual intercourse. And even if this does not produce life the character of the relationship of complete self-giving and a communion of life is still intact.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Father Heathen,

How so? What variables make the love between a same sex couple somehow less genuine than the love between an opposite sex couple?

See my response to wannbe, #73.

Did you not imply that the inability to breed invalidates love?

No.

 

[Father Heathen]

See my response to wannbe, #73.

It still didn't explain what magical component an opposite sex relationship has that a same sex relationship somehow lacks. "uniqueness of the friendship"? What does that mean?

 

[Father Heathen]

See my response to wannbe, #73.

It still didn't explain what magical component an opposite sex couple has that a same sex couple somehow lacks. "uniqueness of the friendship"? What does that mean?

No.

Then why bother bringing up the ability to breed if you didn't believe it was relevant?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Father Heathen,

It still didn't explain what magical component an opposite sex relationship has that a same sex relationship somehow lacks. "uniqueness of the friendship"? What does that mean?

I think it refers to the complete giving of the self to the the other person that can only happen in the marital act. I think that is what is meant by the 'uniqueness of friendship.'

Then why bother bringing up the ability to breed if you didn't believe it was relevant?

It's more than just procreating. The coming together as one in this total self-donation (which is completely unique to the relationship between a husband and a wife) which enriches the relationship even further.

 

[methylatedghosts]

It's more than just procreating. The coming together as one in this total self-donation (which is completely unique to the relationship between a husband and a wife) which enriches the relationship even further.

I wonder how you imagine that to be impossible for a gay relationship

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Hi Wannbe,

The question of couples that cannot procreate comes up. The uniquness of the friendship between the husband and wife is there and that is why it is the only relationship that can have sexual intercourse. And even if this does not produce life the character of the relationship of complete self-giving and a communion of life is still intact.

This statement goes against my personal experience. I have known gay couples that have had much more loving long term relationships then some husband and wife team. They adopted kids and were giving members of there communities. I have worked with drunk straight couples who have had their kids taken from them by child protective services. They were nothing but leaches on our society.

Your point is neither universal or logical.

You must also remember that St Augustine had a very dim very of marriage in general. He said the only good thing that comes out of marriage is more virgins.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it refers to the complete giving of the self to the the other person that can only happen in the marital act. I think that is what is meant by the 'uniqueness of friendship.'

And a same sex couple cannot completely give themselves to one another because.....? How does going through the motions of a ritual magically imbue this bond?

It's more than just procreating. The coming together as one in this total self-donation (which is completely unique to the relationship between a husband and a wife) which enriches the relationship even further.

Again, how is it "unique" between a husband and wife? What magical force-field prevents this aforementioned coming together between two people who are in love yet happen to be of the same gender?