Primate of Ireland embroiled in child abuse scandal

[challupa]

I think it's terrible that a young child escapes, goes to the police, and the police takes him back to his abuser. I can't imagine what happened to that poor child after that!! Makes me quite ill really.

I don't really think celebacy is the problem. People who prefer children are not going to be interested in marrying because that would be same age sex partners and that's not what turns them on. Also they many be homosexual so heterosexual marriage also would not work. It would only help when it came to the treatment of nuns as victims.

The fact that the pope is also being pointed at as covering this up before becoming pope is quite disturbing too.

This all reminds me of what they found on the grounds of a shut down Magdeline home for unwed mothers and orphans. That was horrible too and what happened to the church over that?

 

[Self]

What the catholic priests need to do is learn how to cope with their sexual and lustful desires. It seems that they cant control it. I think that the misinterpretation of Christianity has allowed people to think "I am a sinner, all i do is sin and i cant help it, so Jesus will save me" Have they ever heard of Theosis, or turning the regular human being into a mini-Christ. They really need to handle this at its root, the priests need to find a way to cauterize the lust by devotion to Christ and Purification threw prayer. Ramakrishna once said that if you go around saying your a sinner, than you are one. This is what is wrong with some of Christians today.

Now, by no means am i putting down Christianity. I think Christ was a perfect embodiment of Love. But, that some Christians have misinterpreted his message. Christ has said things like, "Empty thyself and I fill thee" and that if you want heaven, give all to the poor and I dont see many Christians doing things like this. I think that there is a fundamental problem with the mindset with some Christians.

There are many great Christians out there that really do follow Christianity as best as they can and im sure there are many Catholics that do to, but there are still those who dont and they are giving Christianity a bad look.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are many great Christians out there that really do follow Christianity as best as they can and im sure there are many Catholics that do to, but there are still those who dont and they are giving Christianity a bad look.

If we were talking about just the pedophilia itself, I might be inclined to agree with you. I recognize that criminals and predators exist, and they'll be present in every occupation to some degree.

However, what I think reflects especially bad on the Catholic Church is the apparently pervasive attitude that it took to the abuse once it was committed. If the pedophilia had occurred and the Church had responded to it properly when it learned of it, then that would be different; however, it seems like there's a rotten culture of cover-up and flat-out enablement, and it's completely systemic: it's apparently worldwide in scope and reaches to the highest levels of the organization. It's that problem that makes me feel like the Church is rotten to the core.

At this point, I think that the Church is only beginning to relent on its protection of pedophile priests because it's seeing the negative fallout. It seems to me that it's trying to limit the damage to just the pedophiles themselves and try to brush all the people who enabled them under the rug. IMO, it's recent beginnings of a change in attitude aren't about repentance or an actual desire to change things; it's about self-preservation for the organization... just like it always was.

 

[Self]

If we were talking about just the pedophilia itself, I might be inclined to agree with you. I recognize that criminals and predators exist, and they'll be present in every occupation to some degree.

However, what I think reflects especially bad on the Catholic Church is the apparently pervasive attitude that it took to the abuse once it was committed. If the pedophilia had occurred and the Church had responded to it properly when it learned of it, then that would be different; however, it seems like there's a rotten culture of cover-up and flat-out enablement, and it's completely systemic: it's apparently worldwide in scope and reaches to the highest levels of the organization. It's that problem that makes me feel like the Church is rotten to the core.

At this point, I think that the Church is only beginning to relent on its protection of pedophile priests because it's seeing the negative fallout. It seems to me that it's trying to limit the damage to just the pedophiles themselves and try to brush all the people who enabled them under the rug. IMO, it's recent beginnings of a change in attitude aren't about repentance or an actual desire to change things; it's about self-preservation for the organization... just like it always was.

I agree with just about everything that you have said. But, I know that there are good Catholics out there that believe in the Church and that it can change, my very good friend is a Catholic and his family is very devout and are loving Catholics. Now, yes, there is a fundamental problem that is rotting at its core and that needs to be delt with. But, like most people and their problems they either pretend its not there are they run from it. This needs to be delt with and if it cant be, or the church will fall apart.

 

[berrychrisc]

it seems like there's a rotten culture of cover-up and flat-out enablement, and it's completely systemic: it's apparently worldwide in scope and reaches to the highest levels of the organization. It's that problem that makes me feel like the Church is rotten to the core.

I have experience with several different Christian denominations, including Catholicism, and I agree with you. There is a culture in the Catholic church that is different from other denominations - a culture of supremacy of the clergy and submissiveness of the faithful. I think this culture contributed greatly to the ability of the hierarchy to keep such a widespread problem secret for so long.

 

[Apollonius]

The problem should have been dealt with discreetly before a church council and never to have been addressed in a public forum, hence the fault lies with the clergy on all accounts. At the end of the day church leaders failed in safeguarding the integrity of Mother Church.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem should have been dealt with discreetly before a church council and never to have been addressed in a public forum, hence the fault lies with the clergy on all accounts.

Forget that. The Catholic Church has no right to keep crimes quiet. Priests and bishops are subject to the same laws as everyone else.

 

[Apollonius]

Forget that. The Catholic Church has no right to keep crimes quiet. Priests and bishops are subject to the same laws as everyone else.

At what point in my response did I once suggest that the Catholic Church should have kept quiet in concerns of not turning over to the proper authorities those of the clergy which had perpetrated such crimes against the innocent? Rather, it is my contention that the entire matter could (and should) have been dealt with in a discreet manner.

 

[gnomon]

Now we just need the Western people and governments to get over their collective "respect" for the authority of the Church and start issuing subpoenas and drag the criminals and conspirators in front of a court of law.

The US government had no qualms about surrounding, raiding and essentially assaulting the Branch Davidian compound. If they want to be consistent they should be able to at least drag these priests who committed the crimes and those who conspired to cover up, and threatened others to keep them quiet, into a court of law.

Take Cardinal Law. That son of a ***** should be in a prison cell.

 

[challupa]

If we were talking about just the pedophilia itself, I might be inclined to agree with you. I recognize that criminals and predators exist, and they'll be present in every occupation to some degree.

However, what I think reflects especially bad on the Catholic Church is the apparently pervasive attitude that it took to the abuse once it was committed. If the pedophilia had occurred and the Church had responded to it properly when it learned of it, then that would be different; however, it seems like there's a rotten culture of cover-up and flat-out enablement, and it's completely systemic: it's apparently worldwide in scope and reaches to the highest levels of the organization. It's that problem that makes me feel like the Church is rotten to the core.

At this point, I think that the Church is only beginning to relent on its protection of pedophile priests because it's seeing the negative fallout. It seems to me that it's trying to limit the damage to just the pedophiles themselves and try to brush all the people who enabled them under the rug. IMO, it's recent beginnings of a change in attitude aren't about repentance or an actual desire to change things; it's about self-preservation for the organization... just like it always was.

I agree. The RCC system (not the people) is like a sociopath that only is remorseful about what they have done because they got caught and now are having to suffer the consequences.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

At what point in my response did I once suggest that the Catholic Church should have kept quiet in concerns of not turning over to the proper authorities those of the clergy which had perpetrated such crimes against the innocent?

You said that the matter shouldn't have been dealt with in a public forum. A courtroom is a public forum.

Rather, it is my contention that the entire matter could (and should) have been dealt with in a discreet manner.

Why? Why be discreet about child abuse? IMO, the proper response is to identify it and eradicate it. Anything that interferes with this goal (e.g. secrecy) is inappropriate if not downright immoral itself. No pussyfooting around about decorum. We're talking about the well-being of children; the public image of the Catholic Church is secondary to that.

 

[berrychrisc]

The problem should have been dealt with discreetly before a church council and never to have been addressed in a public forum, hence the fault lies with the clergy on all accounts. At the end of the day church leaders failed in safeguarding the integrity of Mother Church.

Wrong on all accounts. The problem should have been referred to the police and the parishioners made aware of what was going on. The church leaders failed to safeguard the children, not "Mother Church".

 

[berrychrisc]

Take Cardinal Law. That son of a ***** should be in a prison cell.

I agree. It's absolutely disgusting that he was made archpriest of a church dedicated to Mary.