Problem of Evil Revisited

[Muslim-UK]

Would you want your computer to do whatever it wanted instead of doing what you wanted?

Angels were created for that purpose, to worship perfectly void of free will.

 

[idav]

Angels were created for that purpose, to worship perfectly void of free will.

I keep hearing angels we're able to rebel in heaven thus God allowed the war and evil to manifest.

 

[serp777]

Why do WE? Why are we blaming God for our moral failures, and our crimes against each other? Why are we expecting God to do for us what we are not even willing to do for ourselves?

God knowingly created a universe where he knew exactly what would occur before the creation of the universe, including all evil, and could have chosen differently. Therefore he is directly responsible for the evil that occurs if this is the case.

 

[serp777]

The vast majority of people devoting 100% to GOD know this life is but a short test, and the Soul will be given new garments and live for eternity in bliss. The evil in the World is from man's use of free will, but every action has a consequence and GOD is fully aware of what every soul does whilst here on Earth. We all return to be judged, and should be fearful of that day, a day when the defenceless, voiceless and oppressed will be heard loud and clear.

So God's actions also have consequences including the emergence of all that is evil. Will he be judged as well, since he should be fully aware of the consequences of his own actions.

 

[idav]

Shalom aleichem, May peace be with you,

We are living in an age where evil is being made to seem good, and good to be evil. This is a twisting of the truth, and an example of evil in action. DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

Each of us has the opportunity to improve ourselves, to be more loving, compassionate and unselfish through the choices we make and the consequences that are returned to us. But that does not guarantee that we will improve. Some people become bitter and hateful walking down a path to ruination. We would like to believe that no matter what we do, no matter how many people we hurt, we will end up wonderful people, but that is not the case.

Our Creator has given us Laws and Covenants to follow; if we break those laws and covenants we face dire consequences no matter what we may choose to believe. Evil exists in creation, not only in children born of our Mother Earth, but from elsewhere in the universe, and some of those are with us on Earth seeking to control our world. You know of these evildoers from the holy scriptures of many religions-- they are abominations that have no love or goodness within them. They may even be here in this forum seeking to lead you astray of the truth.

Just as there are evil beings there are godly ones. The messages of these two groups oppose each other-- one group seeks to turn you away from God, away from helping others, away from keeping yourselves pure and loving; the other group seeks to awaken you to God, to have faith in a higher, loving power that you can at-one with as you purify yourselves through loving and unselfish thoughts, feelings, and actions. Which group will you listen to, which group will you hear and follow? For your own good and the good of the world, please choose wisely.

Even if it's about people needing to show compassion and make wise decisions, there are far more natural things killing people because of disease than accidents, murders and even war. This is a harsh reality almost making God seem malevolent, like we are violating some laws even being here. Do we get to blame god when it has nature throwing nastiness at us or we still blame humans?

 

[idea]

The vast majority of people devoting 100% to GOD know this life is but a short test, and the Soul will be given new garments and live for eternity in bliss. The evil in the World is from man's use of free will, but every action has a consequence and GOD is fully aware of what every soul does whilst here on Earth. We all return to be judged, and should be fearful of that day, a day when the defenceless, voiceless and oppressed will be heard loud and clear.

The problem with this, the person deemed to be evil can simply blame their up-bringing and background for their actions - "If only I had been given better education, kinder parents, more experiences, I would never have done x,y,z" The cause/effect chain is so vast and complex, and "if only's" excuse to tangled and incomplete, no judgement seems just.

The final assignment to heaven or hell seems more a product of circumstance and luck, than of free will. No one actually earns any eternal state - grace to go to heaven, bad upbringing to go to hell.

 

[idea]

Even if it's about people needing to show compassion and make wise decisions, there are far more natural things killing people because of disease than accidents, murders and even war. This is a harsh reality almost making God seem malevolent, like we are violating some laws even being here. Do we get to blame god when it has nature throwing nastiness at us or we still blame humans?

or is there a point to it - is the struggle the source for evolution, would we not become strong without it?
what is the upper limit of what makes us stronger, and what kills us?

 

[PureX]

Have you read the Christian Bible? Are you familiar with the Christian church and its history - the violence, anti-intellectualism, and ravenous greed? Do you know how much wealth the Vatican has? Or Joel Osteen?

The Bible is a book of mythic fiction. It is not the 'history of the world'. And religion is not the cause of human greed, bigotry, and conquest. Religion, like politics, economics, sociology, and everything else we humans engage in becomes infected by our greed, bigotry, and need for conquest.

 

[PureX]

God knowingly created a universe where he knew exactly what would occur before the creation of the universe, including all evil, and could have chosen differently. Therefore he is directly responsible for the evil that occurs if this is the case.

You're just making that up, as you have no way of knowing it to be so. And then you're using your presumption to blame everything on "God".

Why? What do you get out of doing this?

 

[Muslim-UK]

So God's actions also have consequences including the emergence of all that is evil. Will he be judged as well, since he should be fully aware of the consequences of his own actions.

You teach your children what's right and wrong. They grow up and do many wrongs, so you should be judged for their actions?

 

[Muslim-UK]

The problem with this, the person deemed to be evil can simply blame their up-bringing and background for their actions - "If only I had been given better education, kinder parents, more experiences, I would never have done x,y,z" The cause/effect chain is so vast and complex, and "if only's" excuse to tangled and incomplete, no judgement seems just.

That's right, in Court here on Earth, someone could put forward those arguments, either genuinely or through use of deception to attempt to sidetrack their use of free will, but in the ultimate Court, they can not hide a single thought, much less what their heart conceals, so will receive perfect justice.

The final assignment to heaven or hell seems more a product of circumstance and luck, than of free will. No one actually earns any eternal state - grace to go to heaven, bad upbringing to go to hell.

Like I said, GOD knows who was genuinely affected by their upbringing vs those using it as an excuse to do harm unto others.

 

[serp777]

You're just making that up, as you have no way of knowing it to be so. And then you're using your presumption to blame everything on "God".

Why? What do you get out of doing this?

That's not something I made up lol, that's a very common theological position. Do you not think that God is all knowing and exists outside of space and time? The bible clearly states he knows the beginning from the end. And the bible does heavily imply that God created the universe with foreknowledge of how things would play out--he has a specific plan. He could have created it a different way.

Why? What do you get out of doing this?

Get out of doing what? It sounds like you're about to bring up a red herring.

 

[serp777]

You teach your children what's right and wrong. They grow up and do many wrongs, so you should be judged for their actions?

Yes parents get judged all the time for their mistakes, particularly when their kids grow up to be delinquents. The blame almost exclusively goes towards the parents at one point or another--they'll say oh this kid didn't have the right upbringing, etc.

 

[PureX]

That's not something I made up lol, that's a very common theological position. Do you not think that God is all knowing and exists outside of space and time?

I have no way of determining if or what God's existence might entail. And neither does anyone else.

The bible clearly states he knows the beginning from the end. And the bible does heavily imply that God created the universe with foreknowledge of how things would play out--he has a specific plan. He could have created it a different way.

The Bible was written by men who had no way of determining if God exists, or what the nature of such an existence might be.

So why do you accept their imaginings? Are you too lazy to imagine God for yourself? Or do you just want something to blame everything that you don't like about the world, it's people, and yourself, on?

 

[Muslim-UK]

Yes parents get judged all the time for their mistakes, particularly when their kids grow up to be delinquents. The blame almost exclusively goes towards the parents at one point or another--they'll say oh this kid didn't have the right upbringing, etc.

Sorry but I've never seen a parent in Court being judged for the actions of their children.

 

[idav]

Sorry but I've never seen a parent in Court being judged for the actions of their children.

Should Parents Be Legally Responsible For Children's Serious Crimes?

 

[idav]

Sorry but I've never seen a parent in Court being judged for the actions of their children.

I think parents can be charged for creating a sexual predator especially if the parents caused it due to themselves being predators. In those cases the children have no choice in the matter, they were corrupted by the parents

 

[Muslim-UK]

I think parents can be charged for creating a sexual predator especially if the parents caused it due to themselves being predators. In those cases the children have no choice in the matter, they were corrupted by the parents

How does this equate with being taught the difference between right and wrong, then left to decide using free will. I agree with your post, but it has little to do with GOD being held to account for the actions of humans using their free will as Serp was trying to show..

 

[idav]

How does this equate with being taught the difference between right and wrong, then left to decide using free will. I agree with your post, but it has little to do with GOD being held to account for the actions of humans using their free will as Serp was trying to show..

Free will is obviously very limited and the problem of evil is allowing ao much freedom that sometimes people (victims) can't come back from it, gods then allowed another monster to form.

 

[columbus]

You teach your children what's right and wrong. They grow up and do many wrongs, so you should be judged for their actions?

Yes absolutely!
IF you are an all powerful, all knowing parent, who designed and made the children exactly as they are, and put them in whatever circumstances that they grew up in,
Then yes you are totally responsible for their behavior.

Human parents aren't like that. They are very limited, fallible, beings. Quite unlike God(as described by religionists)
Tom