Problems with Capitalism

[Revoltingest]

Most US farmers have tractors that do almost everything except drive themselves. I think they're even air conditioned inside.

Some are.
Most aren't.
It's still one of the most dangerous of all professions....far more so than cops or firemen.
Charted: The 20 deadliest jobs in America

 

[Super Universe]

Guys, raise your hand if you actually identify as a Capitalist. If you don't, you shouldn't be posting in this area. At all. This is the "Capitalist ONLY" subforum. If you want to debate Capitalism as a non-Capitalist, you need to do it somewhere else.

SU raises hand.

 

[Super Universe]

You definitely need to research into where shops like Primark get the clothes they sell from and where tea brands like Typhoo and PG Tips source their crops.




This is supremacist historical revisionism and nothing more. Europe & America did not invent everything. China invented the concept of paper money & gunpowder. Egypt invented paper used for writing on; older non-European societies like Mesopotamians & proto-Chinese societies invented agriculture (the domestication of pigs 15,000 years ago and cultivation of rice between 13,500-8200 years ago respectively) - this would have been when much of Europe was covered by the Laurentide Ice Sheet and other glaciers stemming from the Alps.

It's also a coin-toss between China, India & Persia as to who invented philosophy.

I don't need to research where retailers get their clothes from. I know most of our clothes are made outside the US. We're talking about clothes here, shirts and shoes. I have more shirts than I can count, maybe 60 or more. Shoes, I have about ten pairs. You think we're in trouble if you stop making our clothes?

The strength of the US is not in our clothes, it's in our huge infrastructure that can do almost anything. If a tribe in New Guinea wants to start making their own modern shoes without any western education or equipment, how long do you think it will take them?

We don't need you to make our clothes, we can get someone else to make them or, if you really **** us off, we'll bring all our manufacturing back to the US and make everything we need ourselves and never trade with you again. Your economy will become toast and ours will have a speed bump and then it will soar.

Egypt invented papyrus, it was better than clay but it wasn't all that great. When was the last time anyone used papyrus?

Non-European societies invented agriculture? There was no such thing as a European then.

China invented gunpowder? Most people of the world did something, usually they were small things and they normally didn't willingly share those things with other people of the world. You can go online in any country and see pictures of the surface of Mars.

You're welcome.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't need to research where retailers get their clothes from. I know most of our clothes are made outside the US. We're talking about clothes here, shirts and shoes. I have more shirts than I can count, maybe 60 or more. Shoes, I have about ten pairs. You think we're in trouble if you stop making our clothes?

I was actually referring to the fact that the clothes we wear are often made in third world countries by people who are often paid a pittance compared to what a Western worker would get. Through exploitation of third world populations, the first world develops.

We don't need you to make our clothes, we can get someone else to make them or, if you really **** us off, we'll bring all our manufacturing back to the US and make everything we need ourselves and never trade with you again.

"You?" I'm from Scotland, not the third world. Also, if the West didn't need third worlders to make our clothing then why did corporations outsource their jobs to these places in the first place?

Your economy will become toast and ours will have a speed bump and then it will soar.

If American workers were so great to begin with outsourcing wouldn't even be a thing.

Egypt invented papyrus, it was better than clay but it wasn't all that great. When was the last time anyone used papyrus?

Irrelevant to the fact they invented something which counters your universal claim of "They did not discover anything, Europeans and American's discovered everything and we wrote it all down into books that any third world country can buy and teach to their children." Only one example is needed to disprove this claim.

Non-European societies invented agriculture? There was no such thing as a European then.

Societies that originated outside of continental Europe. Is China in Europe? Is Mesopotamia? Europe is a physical location, not just a cultural group.

China invented gunpowder? Most people of the world did something, usually they were small things and they normally didn't willingly share those things with other people of the world.

You claimed earlier non-Americans and non-Europeans invented nothing. So which is it?

You can go online in any country and see pictures of the surface of Mars.

And?

You're welcome.

You think I'm thanking you for having to read through and respond to that supremacist, alternative fact-laden drivel? Dream on.

Workers do not have to work, they choose to work, other than the labor camps in North Korea.

I'm pretty sure the possibility of homelessness, starvation & death are strong coercive factors in pressuring people into becoming wage slaves.

 

[Super Universe]

I was actually referring to the fact that the clothes we wear are often made in third world countries by people who are often paid a pittance compared to what a Western worker would get. Through exploitation of third world populations, the first world develops.




"You?" I'm from Scotland, not the third world. Also, if the West didn't need third worlders to make our clothing then why did corporations outsource their jobs to these places in the first place?




If American workers were so great to begin with outsourcing wouldn't even be a thing.




Irrelevant to the fact they invented something which counters your universal claim of "They did not discover anything, Europeans and American's discovered everything and we wrote it all down into books that any third world country can buy and teach to their children." Only one example is needed to disprove this claim.




Societies that originated outside of continental Europe. Is China in Europe? Is Mesopotamia? Europe is a physical location, not just a cultural group.




You claimed earlier non-Americans and non-Europeans invented nothing. So which is it?




And?




You think I'm thanking you for having to read through and respond to that supremacist, alternative fact-laden drivel? Dream on.




I'm pretty sure the possibility of homelessness, starvation & death are strong coercive factors in pressuring people into becoming wage slaves.

But their cost of living is much less than living in the west. And the things they make have to be shipped across the ocean, so, the only way that becomes profitable for them is if they are really making a lot more money selling to the US than they would make selling those things in China. Trade is good for them and good for us.

Why did the west outsource clothing manufacturing to the third world? Do you think we somehow forgot how to make clothes? We outsourced to the third world because they can produce more for less than in the US. That's good for them and good for us.

Why did American companies outsource work? American workers are expensive.

Europeans and American's didn't invent everytyhing? Fine, so we didn't invent everything. Please stop using computers and the internet, television, electricity, and you also need to pay us a royalty for providing you with those things for years and years.

Societies did originate outside Europe. There are still tribes in New Guinea. When are they going to contribute something to the rest of the world?

I claimed that non-American and non-Europeans invented nothing? So which is it? They took a step and thought that was enough. I guess it was too tiring for them so they went back to sit under the shade tree.

American's and Europeans are not supreme over other people but someone has to fix the roof. I don't think the third world people are going to ever get out from under the shade tree.

You think people work just to keep from starving? That might be the teaching where you are from. We have some lazy people in the US too, but, mostly we teach our children that no matter who you are or where you come from, if you work hard, you can be successful.

 

[Super Universe]

You know the lack of capitalists decrying the "scientific" racism occurring in this thread is disappointing yet unsurprising.

Everything always has to come down to race, doesn't it? I never said anything about race.

The US has people from every race. Whatever their skin color they work hard, they imagine, they theorize, they invent, they get rich, and they produce more than people in any other country. We produce more than China and they have four times our population. It's not about race, it's ALL about attitude.

Lazy people need not apply.

 

[Super Universe]

Why are American's these magical workers who are rarely lazy and everywhere else is infected with the lazy disease then?

Why are American's such hard workers? Good question, uhh, maybe it's because we had to build a country from scratch?

Maybe because we let in people who wanted to leave their countries so they can find work? And we still do that in a way, it's just that much of it is actually illegal immigration.

I think part of it is definately having a financial system that issues credit to start up business'.

And I think that some of it is just plain work ethic. We don't teach our children that they should not do physical labor like some countries. We teach them the opposite, we tell them that if they work hard they can be successful.

Do you know what the siesta is in Spain/Portugal/Italy? There is no way that would happen in the US.

 

[siti]

This is the Capitalist Only Forum.

OOPS! I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT - CAN I GO BACK AND FIX MY OTHER POSTS?

 

[Shad]

Over 16.3 trillion dollars have flowed from the third world into the centers of capitalism since 1980.

16.3 TRILLION.
Are you really going to argue that the first world isn't developed by the third world?

Money flow does not mean development occurs.

 

[Revoltingest]

OOPS! I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT - CAN I GO BACK AND FIX MY OTHER POSTS?

I sometimes delete my posts when I discover I'm in the wrong forum.

 

[siti]

I sometimes delete my posts when I discover I'm in the wrong forum.

But I thought in this case I could just CAPITALIZE them all. No? Seriously though - I have deleted the ones that might be interpreted as 'hostile' to capitalism. The rest are facts that relate to the discussion and it makes no difference whether I am a capitalist or not. I have not expressed opinions in favour or against.

 

[Revoltingest]

But I thought in this case I could just CAPITALIZE them all. No? Seriously though - I have deleted the ones that might be interpreted as 'hostile' to capitalism. The rest are facts that relate to the discussion and it makes no difference whether I am a capitalist or not. I have not expressed opinions in favour or against.

Just watch out for those mods....they generally don't allow
any non-conforming posts, no matter how nice you are.

 

[siti]

Just watch out for those mods....they generally don't allow any non-conforming posts, no matter how nice you are.

That's OK - they can mod me or delete me if they wish - for this discussion its not important either way. I'm just a bit curious as to how they would know I was not a 'capitalist' for the purposes of the discussion if I don't post anything 'anti-capitalist' in them?

 

[Revoltingest]

That's OK - they can mod me or delete me if they wish - for this discussion its not important either way. I'm just a bit curious as to how they would know I was not a 'capitalist' for the purposes of the discussion if I don't post anything 'anti-capitalist' in them?

It seems you outed yourself as not one of us.
But I invite you to convert.
(There's a 5% discount on frubals for joining.)

 

[Lyndon]

I am a capitalist in that I run my own capitalist business, but my business motto is "Honesty is the best policy" so perhaps that does not classify as capitalist!!

 

[siti]

It seems you outed yourself as not one of us.

Oh God did I?

 

[Revoltingest]

I am a capitalist in that I run my own capilalist business

I like that.
It makes you seem more wicked.

 

[ShivaFan]

good points

 

[Ultimatum]

I'm a free market capitalist, but it is my opinion that its major achilles heel is it's unholy union with corporatism.

Except that's not a problem of capitalism. That's a problem with libertarian capitalism or minarchism. In reality, a competition and markets authority should disband monopoly (in most cases) and provide courts of law whereby the consumer can sue firms who fall victim to corporatist predation [qualified].

 

[Revoltingest]

Except that's not a problem of capitalism. That's a problem with libertarian capitalism or minarchism. In reality, a competition and markets authority should disband monopoly (in most cases) and provide courts of law whereby the consumer can sue firms who fall victim to corporatist predation [qualified].

I'm not familiar with the term, "corporatism".
But the corporate form of ownership is very useful to capitalism & society.
Monopolies are a separate issue, & can be dealt with, eg, breaking up Ma Bell & Std Oil.