Process of conversion for Ebionites

[Sha'irullah]

Not many will know what an Ebionite is but I am curious as to what is the conversion process consist of for one to become an Ebionite. Ebionites accept only the Old Testament and Matthew and some even reject the new Testament all together. Since Isa is not involved in the theology of salvation how does one convert?

 

[Zardoz]

Shalom!

I am indeed an Ebionite.

I have a few threads in the Messianic Judaism DIR about such, perhaps I can move this thread there? (It fits, the MJ category is a rather wide spectrum.)

'Conversion' is not a traditional process for Ebionites, any Jew who follows the teachings of Yeshua could consider themselves an Ebionite. It does not change their Jewish status, merely adds to it. Much like a branch affiliation, like Reform.

Ya, but a bit more complex. Best we move to MJ DIR...

 

[Sha'irullah]

So Ebionite is not exclusive to the people of Israel? It is for Jew or gentile I assume. Because without a doubt Ebionitism is outside of Christianity and outside of Judaism as well and is in its own category although it seem to tilt more towards Judaism.
When I left Christianity I of course despised the New Testament and its polytheistic teachings and I never knew there was a people who rejected it. So I ended up choosing Islam because of this but I rejected that also lol.

I began reading the Bible again and found an odd superiority in it over the Qur'an. I have become so blindly repulsed byt he Bible because I viewed it in my previous Christian perspective. I then began studying and I read a translated version of the Tanakh and realized the vast differences of the OT and NT. I now hold the OT to be superior to the Qur'an and realize just how much of it the Qur'an copies off from. I never thought I would come back to the Bible again. I am still a deist of course but without the NT and Christian dogma I am looking at the OT in a whole new light. It is like reading a different book.

 

[Gaura Priya]

The problem is that the Evyonim do not have enough information at this time to understand truly their culture.

It goes the same with the Nazoreans or the Essenes, of which I do find some solace in. There are a few pseudo-Essenic movements these days, most of which I avoid.

I'm actually the opposite of you, hun! I'm more of influenced by Marcion in this regard - I accept the New Testament as Christian Scripture, but eschew the Old Testament as veritably unnecessary for Christianity at large.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The problem is that the Evyonim do not have enough information at this time to understand truly their culture.

It goes the same with the Nazoreans or the Essenes, of which I do find some solace in. There are a few pseudo-Essenic movements these days, most of which I avoid.

I'm actually the opposite of you, hun! I'm more of influenced by Marcion in this regard - I accept the New Testament as Christian Scripture, but eschew the Old Testament as veritably unnecessary for Christianity at large.

I am quite familiar with those who reject the Old testament. Most have been labelled "anti-Semitic". But in all honesty the OT and NT are so different that I do not find it surprising. Christians just use the OT to bash homosexuality really and to support their other agendas. Most Christians never read the Old Testament or as they say "The long part of the Bible". It is either laziness or ideology that prevents Christians from reading the OT but either way Marcionists sure do have one short Bible

 

[Zardoz]

So Ebionite is not exclusive to the people of Israel? It is for Jew or gentile I assume. Because without a doubt Ebionitism is outside of Christianity and outside of Judaism as well and is in its own category although it seem to tilt more towards Judaism.
When I left Christianity I of course despised the New Testament and its polytheistic teachings and I never knew there was a people who rejected it. So I ended up choosing Islam because of this but I rejected that also lol. ...

No, not exclusive but a Jew will have a better understanding of what was actually being said, without the faulty translation of the Greek.

I do not consider myself outside of Judaism but you are correct that it's totally outside Christianity.

Islam is very close to Ebionite as far as Yeshua is concerned, much closer than Christianity actually.

So, move this to MJ DIR? Make a new thread there?

 

[Sha'irullah]

No, not exclusive but a Jew will have a better understanding of what was actually being said, without the faulty translation of the Greek.

I myself only have the Greek although I wish to find a Hebrew translation of the Tanakh

I do not consider myself outside of Judaism but you are correct that it's totally outside Christianity.

Islam is very close to Ebionite as far as Yeshua is concerned, much closer than Christianity actually.

Out of personal experience I will say that Islam is 70% Judaism and 10% Christianity and 20% Wathaniyya (Arab Paganism before Islam).

Also do you accept the Talmud? And what actually sets Ebionitism apart from Judaism? Since you accept the same core doctrine. Is it the lack of exclusivity for gentiles that makes it differ since Jews make Judaism a part of their ethno-heritage?

So, move this to MJ DIR? Make a new thread there?

Yes indeed you may move it. Fitting category I may add but I was not sure.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I am quite familiar with those who reject the Old testament. Most have been labelled "anti-Semitic". But in all honesty the OT and NT are so different that I do not find it surprising. Christians just use the OT to bash homosexuality really and to support their other agendas. Most Christians never read the Old Testament or as they say "The long part of the Bible". It is either laziness or ideology that prevents Christians from reading the OT but either way Marcionists sure do have one short Bible

Anti-Semetic? Homophobe? Not when I know some queer-friendly synagogues in my city. Nothing else tickles my fancy than the knowledge that there are gay practicing, flaming Orthodox Jews!

Heck, I'm reading John Boswell's book, "Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality" and nothing smacks confusion better than a practicing (and having been 'active' in more ways than one) gay Catholic. But srsly his book is awesome!

Plus, I am a liberal and progressive in too many respects to be boxed under any traditional Christianity. And I've read the Bible (New Testament, Old Testament, and Deuterocanonicals) from cover to cover twice in my life thus far!

In any case, I just personally do not see the merit of Christians utilising the Tanakh EXCEPT for prophecies and the occasional inspiration. Otherwise, it certainly makes Christian Scriptures a little lighter!

 

[Sha'irullah]

Anti-Semetic? Homophobe? Not when I know some queer-friendly synagogues in my city. Nothing else tickles my fancy than the knowledge that there are gay practicing, flaming Orthodox Jews!

Heck, I'm reading John Boswell's book, "Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality" and nothing smacks confusion better than a practicing (and having been 'active' in more ways than one) gay Catholic. But srsly his book is awesome!

Plus, I am a liberal and progressive in too many respects to be boxed under any traditional Christianity. And I've read the Bible (New Testament, Old Testament, and Deuterocanonicals) from cover to cover twice in my life thus far!

In any case, I just personally do not see the merit of Christians utilising the Tanakh EXCEPT for prophecies and the occasional inspiration. Otherwise, it certainly makes Christian Scriptures a little lighter!

Hopefully nobody shall take offense to this...

I am surprised you would say that as Most Christian view it as heresy to reject the OT. But it is only logical since no important dogma comes out of the OT.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I am surprised you would say that as Most Christian view it as heresy to reject the OT. But it is only logical since no important dogma comes out of the OT.

Must... avoid... zealous PC comment... discrimination....


:cover:






Remember that early Christianity did not have a canon, and thus no Bible. On the contrary, being that Jesus was a movement of early 'Christianities,' each group or sect would revere its own set of writings they found inspirational and attributed to Jesus. From the Jewish Christians, like the Ebionites, the Essenes and the Nazoreans, to Gnostics such as the Marcionites and Valentinians. From the Shepherd of Hermas, to the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene... it was very obvious that the Christian path was not only a private affair, but a very personal one.

All of these new Christianities were to be later stifled by the growing Pauline Christian movement, and further fossilised through the council of Nicea and others. I have realised that one can be a follower of Jesus without having to necessarily follow the Bible, or any Scripture, as inerrant or infallible.

In the Beginning was the Word... the Word, the sacred sound that created all the universes, the force of transformation and power, is embodied in the Christian tradition as Jesus Christ - and that is what makes me want to study Christianity deeper than even the mind's eye!

 

[Sha'irullah]

Must... avoid... zealous PC comment... discrimination....


:cover:

Remember that early Christianity did not have a canon, and thus no Bible. On the contrary, being that Jesus was a movement of early 'Christianities,' each group or sect would revere its own set of writings they found inspirational and attributed to Jesus. From the Jewish Christians, like the Ebionites, the Essenes and the Nazoreans, to Gnostics such as the Marcionites and Valentinians. From the Shepherd of Hermas, to the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene... it was very obvious that the Christian path was not only a private affair, but a very personal one.

All of these new Christianities were to be later stifled by the growing Pauline Christian movement, and further fossilised through the council of Nicea and others. I have realised that one can be a follower of Jesus without having to necessarily follow the Bible, or any Scripture, as inerrant or infallible.

In the Beginning was the Word... the Word, the sacred sound that created all the universes, the force of transformation and power, is embodied in the Christian tradition as Jesus Christ - and that is what makes me want to study Christianity deeper than even the mind's eye!

This is very new for me since I always viewed the Bible as corrupt and especially the NT. But I believed that the core message was successfully brought through despite the minor corruptions and errors. I also am not a firm believer in dogma of any kind and Christianity has always been quite liberal compared to Judaism or Islam.
Being raised as a Christian I am surprised I am finding merit in the OT until now lol. The Qur'an was always my Holy Grail of theological inspiration.

 

[Zardoz]

....
Also do you accept the Talmud? And what actually sets Ebionitism apart from Judaism? Since you accept the same core doctrine. Is it the lack of exclusivity for gentiles that makes it differ since Jews make Judaism a part of their ethno-heritage?

Yes indeed you may move it. Fitting category I may add but I was not sure.

Thread's a bit too far along here to move now, and might still pick up some more opinions, so I'll leave it here but start a new thread there for answering doctrine issues.

 

[SageTree]

NT / OT

One good thing is saying Hebrew Scriptures and Christian Scriptures....

Old has an implication of not being valid or being out dated.
And New sounds fresh and better.

A consideration as you wade into and between traditions.

Blessings in your journey.
:namaste