Proof for the existence of the Abrahamic god?

[occams.rzr]

I answered "no". Do you still want the answer to these points, but for why the Abrahamic God doesn't exist?

Yeah, that would help.

 

[allfoak]

The search for God is ultimately the search for self.

The idea that we humans could come up with scientific proof of the existence God is like thinking that earthworms have the ability to understand humans.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, that would help.

Ok. Here goes.

1. No anecdotes (personal events)
2. No long commentaries.
3. Use scientific evidence.
4. Preaching is not evidence, but simply restating your claim.
5. No circular logic. (Bible is true because it says so.)

Since point 1, 2, 4, and 5 are requests of not to do something, I can't really address those points.

So the only point that is open for discussion is point 3. Scientific evidence is relating to science. Science is the study of natural phenomenon, it's called natural science for a reason. The Abrahamic God is all about the supernatural or unnatural existence of a being outside of nature, so science can't address the existence or non-existence of said entity, so there's no evidence for or against since all science relates to everything that is not such entity.

 

[occams.rzr]

Ok. Here goes.

1. No anecdotes (personal events)
2. No long commentaries.
3. Use scientific evidence.
4. Preaching is not evidence, but simply restating your claim.
5. No circular logic. (Bible is true because it says so.)

Since point 1, 2, 4, and 5 are requests of not to do something, I can't really address those points.

So the only point that is open for discussion is point 3. Scientific evidence is relating to science. Science is the study of natural phenomenon, it's called natural science for a reason. The Abrahamic God is all about the supernatural or unnatural existence of a being outside of nature, so science can't address the existence or non-existence of said entity, so there's no evidence for or against since all science relates to everything that is not such entity.

There is no evidence for or against the Easter Bunny, do we rationally conclude that it may exist?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let me get this straight. Your thread title indicates that you want proof for the existence of the one-god in the Bible, but then you make a list of demands that renders this impossible.

Apologies, but why did you create this thread?

I think he is getting at, if god exist, he would even outside the things he listed.

Like gravity. I dont need science, experiment, etc to know know it exist. It does without me being the center of the universe of knowledge.

If abraham-god exist, it should be the same.

He is asking us to proove it is. Can you?

 

[atanu]

1. No anecdotes (personal events)
2. No long commentaries.
3. Use scientific evidence.
4. Preaching is not evidence, but simply restating your claim.
5. No circular logic. (Bible is true because it says so.)

What is Abrahamic God, btw? There is only one God, one truth, spoken of in many ways.

 

[occams.rzr]

What is Abrahamic God, btw? There is only one God, one truth, spoken of in many ways.

The god seen in the Bible and in the Koran.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

But personal experience is subjective. If I was a Muslim, I could say the same things for Allah.

well he's Abrahamic too isn't he? 'proof' and 'evidence' are largely subjective terms also. But I think personal experiences of God are extremely compelling, from personal experience- what we attribute and call God, I would agree is more open to interpretation-

But it is something we must be able to discern for ourselves, believing in truth means nothing if there is no option to be wrong-

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@occams.rzr

I do have to ask. Do you mean an anamorphic god? A lot of god-believers say god is an instinct, feeling of something outside themselves, or revelation of personal interpretation of experience and how they define as the origin of the universe.

A god like in fantasy movies and mythology arent depicted like that in scripture.

Scripture depicts god through revelation and "hearing his voice", meditation (Jesus example), and callings not physical chat.

How do you define the biblical god?
--
I can debate for and against. Dont ask.

 

[Ouroboros]

There is no evidence for or against the Easter Bunny, do we rationally conclude that it may exist?

To rationally conclude something is not the same as scientific evidence. You specifically asked for scientific evidence and nothing else.

You can't rationally conclude based on a vague premise or lacking information. To "rationally conclude" that Abrahamic God doesn't exist because you don't have any evidence is to argue from ignorance. It's the argument from ignorance fallacy.

 

[occams.rzr]

well he's Abrahamic too isn't he? 'proof' and 'evidence' are largely subjective terms also. But I think personal experiences of God are extremely compelling, from personal experience- what we attribute and call God, I would agree is more open to interpretation-

But it is something we must be able to discern for ourselves, believing in truth means nothing if there is no option to be wrong-

Proof is not subjective. It is an objective format of information that supports a conclusion. People may be wrong on its definition, but it does not change what it is.

 

[occams.rzr]

@occams.rzr

I do have to ask. Do you mean an anamorphic god? A lot of god-believers say god is an instinct, feeling of something outside themselves, or revelation of personal interpretation of experience and how they define as the origin of the universe.

A god like in fantasy movies and mythology arent depicted like that in scripture.

Scripture depicts god through revelation and "hearing his voice", meditation (Jesus example), and callings not physical chat.

How do you define the biblical god?
--
I can debate for and against. Dont ask.

As a sadistic, immoral, unethical, misogynistic murderer and psychopath. When I mean "god" I mean a deity, not an impulse. But yes, I understand what you are saying.

 

[occams.rzr]

To rationally conclude something is not the same as scientific evidence. You specifically asked for scientific evidence and nothing else.

You can't rationally conclude based on a vague premise or lacking information. To "rationally conclude" that Abrahamic God doesn't exist because you don't have any evidence is to argue from ignorance. It's the argument from ignorance fallacy.

But the biblical god is the thesis, not the antithesis. The thesis needs proof to be considered true, I do not need to disprove god's existence. I notice you are a pantheist, I am not talking about the concept of "god" as the universe but a personal god.

 

[Ouroboros]

But the biblical god is the thesis, not the antithesis. The thesis needs proof to be considered true, I do not need to disprove god's existence.

But that's what I asked you in my first post...

I said I answered "NO" to your question, and then asked if you still wanted me to answer your points based on my answer. So I'm giving you my answer from the view of a "No" response.

My view is that AG (Abrahamic God) doesn't exist, but my view isn't based on scientific evidence. I have no scientific evidence that AG doesn't exist, but I do, however, have knowledge, insight, personal views and experiences etc to support it, but you asked that they shouldn't be considered.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As a sadistic, immoral, unethical, misogynistic murderer and psychopath. When I mean "god" I mean a deity, not an impulse. But yes, I understand what you are saying.

If deity is anamorphic god or a person siting up in the sky or so, Im an atheist so cant help ya.

If god was an impulse and is defined by and is the source of everything living and growing, then yes "he" exist.

But thats my personal interpretation and experience. Doesnt really help the OP since I believe god is an experience not a deity.

 

[allfoak]

I think he is getting at, if god exist, he would even outside the things he listed.

Like gravity. I dont need science, experiment, etc to know know it exist. It does without me being the center of the universe of knowledge.

If abraham-god exist, it should be the same.

He is asking us to proove it is. Can you?

@occams.rzr ams.rzr
Then the answer is yes.
God would be seen as Mind.

It is something that we need to know nothing about to use it or even to know it, yet we all know it exists.
Mind has the characteristics and ability to do all of the things we would expect from an infinite God.
So God would be infinite living Mind.

The hermetic tradition is very clear on this.
If one begins with the idea that there must be a more substantial reality than the one we experience in the material world, then the logical conclusion would be that this more substantial reality can only be that of " Infinite Living Mind".

What is there then higher than Matter or Energy that we know to be existent in the Universe? LIFE AND MIND! Life and Mind in all their varying degrees of unfoldment! "Then," you ask, "do you mean to tell us that THE ALL is LIFE and MIND?" Yes! and No! is our answer. If you mean Life and Mind as we poor petty mortals know them, we say No! THE ALL is not that! "But what kind of Life and Mind do you mean?" you ask.

The answer is "LIVING MIND," as far above that which mortals know by those words, as Life and Mind are higher than mechanical forces, or matter--INFINITE LIVING MIND as compared to finite "Life and Mind." We mean that which the illumined souls mean when they reverently pronounce the word: "SPIRIT!"

"THE ALL" is Infinite Living Mind--the Illumined call it SPIRIT![/QUOTE]
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb06.htm

 

[occams.rzr]

But that's what I asked you in my first post...

I said I answered "NO" to your question, and then asked if you still wanted me to answer your points based on my answer. So I'm giving you my answer from the view of a "No" response.

My view is that AG (Abrahamic God) doesn't exist, but my view isn't based on scientific evidence. I have no scientific evidence that AG doesn't exist, but I do, however, have knowledge, insight, personal views and experiences etc to support it, but you asked that they shouldn't be considered.

Right, I understand. My belief is contingent upon there is no evidence for him, which is based on the scientific method.

 

[occams.rzr]

If deity is anamorphic god or a person siting up in the sky or so, Im an atheist so cant help ya.

If god was an impulse and is defined by and is the source of everything living and growing, then yes "he" exist.

But thats my personal interpretation and experience. Doesnt really help the OP since I believe god is an experience not a deity.

Yes, I understand. And I would agree with the pantheistic form of atheism.

 

[occams.rzr]

Then the answer is yes.
God would be seen as Mind.

It is something that we need to know nothing about to use it or even to know it, yet we all know it exists.
Mind has the characteristics and ability to do all of the things we would expect from an infinite God.
So God would be infinite living Mind.

The hermetic tradition is very clear on this.
If one begins with the idea that there must be a more substantial reality than the one we experience in the material world, then the logical conclusion would be that this more substantial reality can only be that of " Infinite Living Mind".

But some people's minds are fallible and can go insane. Can your definition of god be fallible and insane?

 

[allfoak]

But some people's minds are fallible and can go insane. Can your definition of god be fallible and insane?

Human minds are fallible of course, not Infinite Living MInd.