Okay, I'll amend my statement. According to the NT ─
Jesus is not God, or
Jesus is God and is also a relentless liar.
Rarely a truer word spoken.
What conjecture?
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Proof of God, when Jesus am God
- Thread starter questfortruth
- Start date
Jesus is not God, or
Jesus is God and is also a relentless liar.
I don't think the problem is as to whether Jesus existed or not, but if he was who people say he was, or did what people say he did.
Daniel Nicholson
Blasphemous Pryme
If you are reading this, do yourself a favor and move onto a different thread
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
Atheist can not blaspheme Jesus without referring to the Bible. The Bible says, that Jesus is God. Hence, atheist can not refer to Bible to blaspheme Jesus. But that is not possible, because the very first description of Jesus Christ was given by Bible.
Blaspheme.
abc conjecture - Wikipedia
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
Typical reaction. They have executed Jesus for breaking man-made Saturday law, which reads: "nobody, and no god, can do good deeds at Saturday."
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
1. Nobody has seen the Teapot.
2. Hence, Teapot is not visible.
3. But it is known, that it is Teapot, not an Elon Mask's space car.
4. Hence, somebody has seen the Teapot.
5. Hence, it is visible.
6. We came to contradiction,
7. Hence, there are no teapots.
Nowhere in the NT does Jesus say "I am God" ─ if that's wrong, quote me the part where Jesus says that.
And as I pointed out, all five versions of Jesus say they're NOT God. Since you make it plain you don't read your NT, here are some examples of Jesus saying that:
Paul:
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;
[...] 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
Matthew 20:23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”
Luke 18:18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “[...] I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
John 14:6 “No one comes to the Father but by me.” (Incompatible with the triune concept,)
John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”
John 20:17 [...] I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
And elsewhere:
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 John 4:12 No man has ever seen God; [...]
So having acquainted yourself with what according to the NT Jesus said, do you think Jesus was telling the truth, or do you think Jesus was indeed God so that these examples show he was a persistent and deliberate liar and deceiver, and that his ministry was based on this false foundation?
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
The Bible does not interpret itself. Each fact needs interpretation. Bible is one huge fact. For example, there is written in Bible, that God inflicts unimaginable evil to sinners. No! God is not source of evil spirit!
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So circular it bites you in the butt.
The existence of a human named Jesus seems to have evidence. Does that mean that Jesus did miracles?
Lets say that I present you with a magic rock. I can prove that it is a rock. Does that prove that it is magic?
Gets out can of spray paint.
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
If I have no reason to distrust you, I must trust you. Because love comes first. Love is in origin.
Trinity: Father (God), son (Jesus), and holy spirit (Christ) are all the same, according to Catholics.
Many parts of the bible disagree, and insist that Jesus is the son of God, and only God is God.
John 10:30: "The Father and I are one." Notice that is Jesus saying that He (Jesus) and God are the same. This is not what God said.
Mark 14:61-64: "Are you the messiah, the Son of the Blessed One? Jesus: "I am."
John 14 (also John 10): Jesus: "I am in the Father and the Father is in me."
Matt 11:27
The apostles were humans. How can be believe that humans got the ideas right?
I've seen the teapot.
Feel free to write your own bible.
But next time please just say so and save me the trouble of quoting the real one to you.
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
Blaspheme. Please respect member of RF.
You said the bible means what you want it to say, didn't you? You certainly haven't agreed that it says what I showed you it says.
So if I believed in blasphemy ─ which I don't, since it has no other purpose than to silence people you can't silence by reasoned argument ─ then I'd say you were closer to blasphemy than I am.
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
You have no right to change the Christian Creed of faith: Nicene Creed - Wikipedia
According to the Creed, the Jesus Christ is God.
Everyone has every right to observe what the gospel authors wrote, and to note that ─ as I showed you ─ all five versions of Jesus deny that they're God and never claim to be God.
Let everyone believe what they like, but don't let them make false claims about what the NT actually says.
If you've looked at the history of the church then you'll know that the Trinity doctrine wasn't invented till the 4th century; and that it was invented for the purpose of elevating the principal character in Christianity to God status in response to widespread political pressure to do so; and that it took the form it did so that Christians might avoid the charge of polytheism, which would equate them with the pagans. And that in the Trinity doctrine, the Father is not Jesus or the Ghost, and Jesus is not the Ghost, and the Father is 100% of God, and Jesus is 100% of God, and the Ghost is 100% of God.
And that the churches call the Trinity doctrine "a mystery in the strict sense"; and that their definition of "a mystery in the strict sense" is something "that cannot be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed". And reading that, it has instantly occurred to you that synonyms for "mystery in the strict sense" include "a nonsense" and "something incoherent".
And no doubt it has also occurred to you that if instead Christianity acknowledged that it had three gods (Father, Son, Ghost) and not one, then their theology would no longer be incoherent on the point.
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