Proof Of The Power Of The Tao!!!

[the_Unknown]

Someone asked about training and proof of the Tao earlier.

I was a bit bored so my little brother and I went out and recorded some videos with my cell phone today.

Watch what I am able to do by using the principles of the tao and intuitively moving:

http://www.christophercoggins.com/_video/ninja_moves/ninja_dload.html
http://www.christophercoggins.com/_video/ninja_moves/vol1_02.3gp

I must add that I am not a gymnast or a martial artist.

I'm far from perfect, but how many 'normal' people can just get up and do this without any stretching or practice?

And yes, I can repeat my performance.

I think this is how martial arts were originally created.

People just go out and do things- and if they work, then they work.

 

[Master Vigil]

I must add that I am not a gymnast or a martial artist.

That is apparent, however coordinated individuals should be able to do a front walk over/handspring quite easily. One does not need gymnastic or martial arts experience. Now, try using Tao and do a corkscrew, or a back 180 tuck, or a B-twist, etc... That's a little different.

I'm far from perfect, but how many 'normal' people can just get up and do this without any stretching or practice?

Alot.

And yes, I can repeat my performance.

Most can.

I must also point out that even those who are able to perform these feats without any proper training, always end up hurting themselves. Either by falling wrong, or just screwing up their back. Take Steve Terada for example, probably one of the most gifted, and amazing extreme martial artists today... but he has no real gymnastics training so he spends ALOT of time at the chiropractor. I'm not sure if that is "with Tao."

'

I think this is how martial arts were originally created.
People just go out and do things- and if they work, then they work.

Well it depends on what story you hear. If you accept the story that martial arts was developed in china, then "just going out and doing things" is a bit short on the explanation. Their martial arts were developed by watching animals fight, and mimicking the animals movement.

The striking martial arts of Korea and Japan were most likely started in Korea as Tae Kyon, which was an intensive study of body mechanics, hip placements, pressure points, and getting proper waist position for kicks above the waist.

As for the Nin (ninja), their martial arts are considerably less "stylized" than the other martial arts being that they did more of what you said. They were farmers, and had to use whatever means they could to defend themselves and their farms. Bujinkan Ninjutsu now is much different, and more stylized than say... the koga ryu clan's taijutsu which is a more "get it done, get it done fast, and get it done quietly" concept.

Nevertheless, nicely done! And with more practice and training you may make a good gymnast or martial artist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

One very remarkable example of harnessing "chi" was during one of our T'ai Chi classes I was in. Our teacher gave a demonstration showing just how powerful one can become by harnessing "chi."



Our teacher wasn't too wimpy, mind you, but he was no heavyweight champion boxer. He demonstrated the power of chi by holding out his arm at a 90-degree angle, standing very calmly, and had a very large man hang from his arm.




A 230 pound man was literally hanging from our teacher's arm. And all the while our teacher wasn't sweating it at all. He had his eyes closed, with a calm and serene presence. It was very impressive!




A bit off-topic, maybe? I couldn't help but share that story.






Peace,
Mystic

 

[Master Vigil]

A bit off-topic, maybe? I couldn't help but share that story.

Not off topic at all. I remember back in high school we did this excercise in Anatomy and Physiology where we had to stand and hold our Anatomy books straight out at a 90 degree angle. Needless to say I wasn't that popular in high school, but everyone knew my martial arts background. So I decided to really focus and use my chi to hold up this book, especially since it was a competition. (I think the winner got like 35 bonus points on the final or something weird like that). Needless to say, after about 7 minutes, all of the big huge football players were out, as well as the wrestlers, swimmers, etc... And there was little 150lb me, still goin strong. I held that book for 13 minutes (and like 5 seconds, the bell wrang). I had won, and beaten everyone else in the school, past and present by 5 minutes. Sadly, it didn't make me popular, just more of a freak.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not off topic at all. I remember back in high school we did this excercise in Anatomy and Physiology where we had to stand and hold our Anatomy books straight out at a 90 degree angle. Needless to say I wasn't that popular in high school, but everyone knew my martial arts background. So I decided to really focus and use my chi to hold up this book, especially since it was a competition. (I think the winner got like 35 bonus points on the final or something weird like that). Needless to say, after about 7 minutes, all of the big huge football players were out, as well as the wrestlers, swimmers, etc... And there was little 150lb me, still goin strong. I held that book for 13 minutes (and like 5 seconds, the bell wrang). I had one, and beaten everyone else in the school, past and present by 5 minutes. Sadly, it didn't make me popular, just more of a freak.

:clap Well done, M_V!



Did you get the bonus points on your test?




Peace,
Mystic

 

[the_Unknown]

That is apparent, however coordinated individuals should be able to do a front walk over/handspring quite easily. One does not need gymnastic or martial arts experience. Now, try using Tao and do a corkscrew, or a back 180 tuck, or a B-twist, etc... That's a little different.

Alot.

Most can.

I must also point out that even those who are able to perform these feats without any proper training, always end up hurting themselves. Either by falling wrong, or just screwing up their back. Take Steve Terada for example, probably one of the most gifted, and amazing extreme martial artists today... but he has no real gymnastics training so he spends ALOT of time at the chiropractor. I'm not sure if that is "with Tao."

'Well it depends on what story you hear. If you accept the story that martial arts was developed in china, then "just going out and doing things" is a bit short on the explanation. Their martial arts were developed by watching animals fight, and mimicking the animals movement.

The striking martial arts of Korea and Japan were most likely started in Korea as Tae Kyon, which was an intensive study of body mechanics, hip placements, pressure points, and getting proper waist position for kicks above the waist.

As for the Nin (ninja), their martial arts are considerably less "stylized" than the other martial arts being that they did more of what you said. They were farmers, and had to use whatever means they could to defend themselves and their farms. Bujinkan Ninjutsu now is much different, and more stylized than say... the koga ryu clan's taijutsu which is a more "get it done, get it done fast, and get it done quietly" concept.

Nevertheless, nicely done! And with more practice and training you may make a good gymnast or martial artist.

Yeah, it was just this ongoing joke with my friends that i'm this ninja. So, we decided to go out and try to emulate my friend's cheezy martial arts videos.

I was pretty surprised how it came afterwards.

I might make some more, but ppl are always going to be like... yeah let's see you fly, or jump off a building, or how about walk through fire, etc etc.

My point was just that you can do something natural and on the first try by being spontaneous as the Tao, not so much to show off.

 

[Master Vigil]

:clap Well done, M_V!

Did you get the bonus points on your test?

Why yes I did.

My point was just that you can do something natural and on the first try by being spontaneous as the Tao, not so much to show off.

I understand, and since alot of coordinated people can do this, it shows that it is very natural.

I just disagreed that that was how martial arts came to be, and that many people can just get up and do it without practice or training. Front walkovers/handsprings are quite easy. That's all.

 

[Master Vigil]

If anyone is interested in seeing some really amazing martial artists, this site is chock full of video's and links.

http://www.bilang.com

 

[the_Unknown]

^^^ What he said. ^^^^

Promising, but pretty basic stuff. Harnessing "chi" or "energy" is another thing altogether.

With practice anybody can do choreographed moves, or lift something heavy, be good at a video game, or whatever, but what about without practice?

One of the aspects people overlook is the first line of the Tao Te Ching which clearly states that the Tao cannot be followed.

This means you cannot train or 'practice' the Tao.

You can also not have a teacher or someone show you how to use the Tao either.

When you train or practice something you're specializing yourself.

You're giving up a part of yourself in exchange for something else. The Tao doesn't change, it's eternal.

There is no need to balance or train to use the Tao.

Training and practice is also not spontaneous or natural - that's also key.

In short, the only way you can test the Tao is to demonstrate it through faith in something you have no expertise or skill in -it either comes or it doesn't.

The Tao isn't something fancy either, it simply is.

 

[Master Vigil]

With practice anybody can do choreographed moves, or lift something heavy, be good at a video game, or whatever, but what about without practice?

One of the aspects people overlook is the first line of the Tao Te Ching which clearly states that the Tao cannot be followed.

This means you cannot train or 'practice' the Tao.

You can also not have a teacher or someone show you how to use the Tao either.

When you train or practice something you're specializing yourself.

You're giving up a part of yourself in exchange for something else. The Tao doesn't change, it's eternal.

There is no need to balance or train to use the Tao.

Training and practice is also not spontaneous or natural - that's also key.

In short, the only way you can test the Tao is to demonstrate it through faith in something you have no expertise or skill in -it either comes or it doesn't.

The Tao isn't something fancy either, it simply is.

This is one of the few things that makes Taoism as a philosophy and a religion complicated. Tao and "Tao" are two different things. When Lao Tzu starts his Tao Te Ching, he makes it very clear that what he talks about as Tao, is not the eternal "Tao". But he does discuss ways of knowing the eternal "Tao", and he calls that Tao. So when he discusses following Tao (he does), he is not talking about the eternal "Tao", but Tao.

Thus, ways of specializing ourselves (becoming simpler, following wu wei, embracing P'u, etc... are followed and taught.

Also, Taoist see the only constant in the universe is change, that is why the yin yang symbol is supposed to be constantly spinning. And is the reason for the Taoist concept of sponteneity and "going with the flow" ideas. Because as my Taoist master says... "The Tao doesn't stop for a second, why then should a Taoist?"

I believe you are mistakingly using Tao, when you want to be using the eternal "Tao". Because as you say, it is impossible for us to practice "Tao" for we can not know, or even understand "Tao". However we can eventually come to know "Tao" by following Tao. It's not easy, but it takes much practice, training, and discipline. And above all, humility.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

A 230 pound man was literally hanging from our teacher's arm. And all the while our teacher wasn't sweating it at all. He had his eyes closed, with a calm and serene presence. It was very impressive!

I was shown a similar thing at a class. We were to hold our arms out and try to get people to bend them by force. Mostly people managed to bend the arms. Then we were told to repeat the exercise but to imagine rushing 'energy' going through the arm. It was much more difficult to bend the arm after that.

I'm not sure if that was Chi, the power of belief, or both! I don't think it really matters, especially after you've been doing Chi Kung for a while (because its built up the mind-body associations so well it might as well be magic!)

Drawing on the above there is a trick I've found for arm wrestling. Taking the right posture (quite important, since the position of your whole body will change the power to your arm) I do something similar to that exercise above to 'lock' my arm in place. I wait until the person has expended a lot of energy trying to break it, then I stop the lock and push down doing the visualising thing again. This has worked against people who just shouldn't lose to someone like me. I gotta say though, once it only just worked. The guy in question was furious that I'd beaten him and I played it up teasing him. What I hid up was the fact I couldn't move my arm afterwards! It was stiff for nearly a week in fact.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Training and practice is also not spontaneous or natural - that's also key.

In short, the only way you can test the Tao is to demonstrate it through faith in something you have no expertise or skill in -it either comes or it doesn't.

The Tao isn't something fancy either, it simply is.

TU, I was about to say that you are a young person so have a young person's innocence and pride (no harm in that!), but there is something in what you say that strikes a chord too.

Obviously trying to drive a car without any practice or fighting someone with martial arts experience without training would trip anyone up. The relaxed, detached, open/humble and mindful/focused approach of a (hypothetical) Taoist is often a huge advantage in all sorts of situations however.

 

[Ciscokid]

I must add that I am not a gymnast or a martial artist.

Actually, you needn't inform us of that.

 

[the_Unknown]

I think it's funny when people say change is the only constant.

They often do not see the significance of what they are saying.

If one did
then all things
would cease to be...

---------------------------------------------------

For instance, the Ying Yang Symbol:

The circle represents the universe.

The black and white represent all of the differences within the universe.

For many
it is the same
when they look outside
and see
all the myriad things.

Differences = polarities.

Ying and yang.

Emptiness and fullness.
Big and small.
Man and woman.

and... constant and change.

The mutable and the immutable.

So when people say change is constant...

They are saying change = constant.

Or... Ying = Yang.

Yet the commoner says, "This is ridiculous."

"How can ying = yang?"

"The symbol is white and black."

"White does not equal black."

But in fact, it does.

Through change the constant is revealed...

The true Tao emerges:

================================

So it is
with all things
in this universe.

When you train you are looking to balance ying and yang.

But as you may see, Ying is Yang.

There is nothing to balance!

The only point of training
is to realize
that training
is pointless.

You exhaust yourself
until you see that all you have done
means nothing.

You are then purified
of desire
and become humble.

 

[finalfrogo]

Page not found. : (

 

[ChrisP]

Yeah me too Final Frogo... seeing as we're on the topic of coordinated people... check this out!!!!

"Chinlone, the national sport of Myanmar, is sort of a cross between soccer and hacky-sack. The movie "Mystic Ball" showcases some of the sport's players' skillz."
http://www.chinlone.com/reel.html
Honestly... the pin point precision

 

[MysticSang'ha]

M_V, I got your link to the really cool martial arts tricks, and I was mesmerized. It was simply beautiful to watch.



The music was rather an odd choice for the first one, though, did you think?


I'm so sick of love songs
I'm so tired of tears....




I could go with the rhythm and the melody, but the lyrics had me .











Peace,
Mystic

 

[Master Vigil]

When you train you are looking to balance ying and yang.

But as you may see, Ying is Yang.

There is nothing to balance!

The only point of training
is to realize
that training
is pointless.

You exhaust yourself
until you see that all you have done
means nothing.

You are then purified
of desire
and become humble.

Are you sure you aren't speaking of Zen more than Taoism? Perhaps a good discernment between Dogen Zenji and Lao Tzu is necessary.

 

[the_Unknown]

" The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same--
When they appear they are named differently.

Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;

The door to all marvels."- Lao Tzu, section 1 of Tao Te Ching
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things."

This illustrates that naming things is part of your sense of distinction that seperates objects in reality from being whole.

Essentially, you create the differences through your perception and reinforce them with superficial things like names.

All things spring forth from yin. So all manifestations are considered yang.
The blueprint is yin - the actual construction is yang.

"Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations."

If you desire nothing, the mystery reveals itself.

The true Tao can only be realized by those that have no desires.

When you practice something there is a desire. That desire is what drives you. Without desire there is no drive and then there is no practice.

So you see the manifestations of your desires (and failures, as both are one of the same).

"These two are the same--
When they appear they are named differently."

They are in fact two halves of the same because yang is a reflection of ying. A reflection, but not the actual substance of it. Like a shadow casted from an object.

Just as truth and lies are interwoven with one another, such is the nature of reality.

Once again, Yin = Yang. They are one of the same.

"Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;

The door to all marvels."

The true mystery of life which is obvious to those without desires, becomes an enigma to anyone who desires power, skill, ability, influence, health, etc..

In their simplest form, everything is the same.

The more you simplify something, the more apparent this becomes.

All marvels, miracles, and seemingly unexplainable events are now revealed in simplicity through this linkage.

As when one is the same as the other, then all things do not simply become possible or plausible, they simply ARE.

Lao Tzu says nothing about "Taoism" or "Zen".

Those are both constructs of men in their failure to understand the simplicity that is the Tao.

If you pride yourself on the expertise of 'Tao Masters', then perhaps you should try consuming Mercury. When the Emperor of China sought the power of the Tao, this was one of the many rituals and exercises advised by such masters.

 

[Master Vigil]

" The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things.
Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations.
These two are the same--
When they appear they are named differently.

Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;

The door to all marvels."- Lao Tzu, section 1 of Tao Te Ching
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth
While naming is the origin of the myriad things."

This illustrates that naming things is part of your sense of distinction that seperates objects in reality from being whole.

Essentially, you create the differences through your perception and reinforce them with superficial things like names.

All things spring forth from yin. So all manifestations are considered yang.
The blueprint is yin - the actual construction is yang.

"Therefore, always desireless, you see the mystery
Ever desiring, you see the manifestations."

If you desire nothing, the mystery reveals itself.

The true Tao can only be realized by those that have no desires.

When you practice something there is a desire. That desire is what drives you. Without desire there is no drive and then there is no practice.

So you see the manifestations of your desires (and failures, as both are one of the same).

"These two are the same--
When they appear they are named differently."

They are in fact two halves of the same because yang is a reflection of ying. A reflection, but not the actual substance of it. Like a shadow casted from an object.

Just as truth and lies are interwoven with one another, such is the nature of reality.

Once again, Yin = Yang. They are one of the same.

"Their sameness is the mystery,
Mystery within mystery;

The door to all marvels."

The true mystery of life which is obvious to those without desires, becomes an enigma to anyone who desires power, skill, ability, influence, health, etc..

In their simplest form, everything is the same.

The more you simplify something, the more apparent this becomes.

All marvels, miracles, and seemingly unexplainable events are now revealed in simplicity through this linkage.

As when one is the same as the other, then all things do not simply become possible or plausible, they simply ARE.

You're preaching to the choir Unknown.

Lao Tzu says nothing about "Taoism" or "Zen".

Why would he? The terms didn't exist at the time. That isn't the point.

Those are both constructs of men in their failure to understand the simplicity that is the Tao.

I agree, however, your choice in words run along the same lines as the word choice in Zen, more than classical philosophical Taoism.

If you pride yourself on the expertise of 'Tao Masters', then perhaps you should try consuming Mercury. When the Emperor of China sought the power of the Tao, this was one of the many rituals and exercises advised by such masters.

I take no pride in any Taoist Masters. Why would you say such a thing? I find Tao more in my cats than I do in my Taoist Master. But what my cat teaches me and what my Taoist master teaches me are 2 different things. And are NOT meant to be the same.