Proofs for God/Religion. Got a good one?

[cablescavenger]

I never mentioned names.




Obviously you do.




Saying you're willing to act like a reasonable human being doesn't mean much if you consistently act like something else. If you say "I have integrity" while you're stealing someone's wallet, what do you think is going to make a bigger impression on that person, what you say or what you do?



I think everyone who's read through this thread already knows what happened: you made a false claim, I called you on it, and you've spent the last several posts desperately trying to change the subject and whining about being picked on.

When are you going to learn that you can't get your foot out of your mouth by trying to pry it out with the other one?

Now, if you're done talking about yourself, lets get back to the topic: you said there are plenty of people in the Bible who claim to have seen God. I said "name one".

Still waiting.



Just how many times am I going to have to do that before you see it (or cop to it)?

Or we could just keep going like we have been: I prove you wrong, and you go on to prove all sorts of other interesting things about yourself.

Is that what you think
I think when I try to block you, and can't because you are admin, then I can choose to ignore your insults. Jog on sunshine. Who walked with God in Genesis?

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Genesis 32)


To Conquer Fritzl...You Must Become Fritzl... - Reginald D Hunter
​

 

[Wakeup]

The fact that we are here on this earth and that the universe exists, logically tells us that there is a divine Creator who is much greater than us.

Quite the opposite is true I think. The fact of human existence carries a huge illusion of intelligent design. Over 4.5 billion years atoms filtered through the process of evolution by natural selection, where on other planets produced nothing more than sand and rocks, to give rise to many complex "things." Eventually this process gave rise to a species that was smart enough to comprehend the very process that brought it into existence. The fact that we look around today and see many complex species who can communicate complex ideas, where else in the universe there is only empty planets, carries with it an enormous illusion that someone created earth. People fail to realize it took 4.5 billion years to get to where we are. thats: 4,500,000,000 years!

 

[Quagmire]

Is that what you think
I think when I try to block you, and can't because you are admin, then I can choose to ignore your insults. Jog on sunshine. Who walked with God in Genesis?

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Genesis 32)


To Conquer Fritzl...You Must Become Fritzl... - Reginald D Hunter
​

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually got you to look something up!! I'm thouroughly moved. (and yeah, I already knew at least one of those was there. I mentioned it to BottomlessThought a cpl posts back. Just wanted to see if you were actually capable of doing your own homework all by yourself. Btw: you're quoting Exodus in those first 4 verses, not Genesis. I'll go ahead and give you a B anyway since it was your first attempt ).

There may be hope for you yet. Probably not, but maybe is already more than anyone had any right to expect.

Now if you could learn to include the chapter number along with the verse # (one doesn't do much good without the other) you'll be well on your way to debating with only nominal or occasional embarrassment (rather than constant and chronic).

Oh well, baby steps.

 

[Looncall]

Welcome to the world of theology.

Here's the real problem (as I have assessed it). We post-moderns have been conditioned to think critically, scientifically and reasonably ever since the 16th century. But the concept of Deity is much, much older than that. Modernism presented theology with a tremendous challenge and opportunity for growth. What it did, in effect, was to shatter suppositions of God's anthropomorphic qualities. In other words, as the physical world became bigger, God had to get bigger, too. God could no longer "ride a chariot across the sky." We now have to learn to discuss God's creation in scientific, not poetic, terms. As modernity demands a downward, tightening focus to get at the empirical facts, it also demands an outward, broadening focus to get at truth.

We have to understand that to talk about God is not to talk about a particularity, as was the case in classic times. It is to talk more generally and metaphorically than particularly and specifically.

Since most of us are better trained from school in the scientific method than we are the theological method, it becomes very difficult for us to think theologically and have it mean anything.

My advice is to learn to live with awe and mystery.

Please expand on the bolded portion of your message. As it stands, it conveys nothing to me.

 

[cablescavenger]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually got you to look something up!! I'm thouroughly moved. (and yeah, I already knew at least one of those was there. I mentioned it to BottomlessThought a cpl posts back. Just wanted to see if you were actually capable of doing your own homework all by yourself. Btw: you're quoting Exodus in those first 4 verses, not Genesis. I'll go ahead and give you a B anyway since it was your first attempt ).

There may be hope for you yet. Probably not, but maybe is already more than anyone had any right to expect.

Now if you could learn to include the chapter number along with the verse # (one doesn't do much good without the other) you'll be well on your way to debating with only nominal or occasional embarrassment (rather than constant and chronic).

Oh well, baby steps.

When I mentioned Genesis I was referring to Adam and Eve.

 

[BottomlessThought]

(and yeah, I already knew at least one of those was there. I mentioned it to BottomlessThought a cpl posts back.

Firstly, there are a lot of times in the Bible when God makes himself immanent to people - it may not explicitly specify "face to face", which is why the quote from Exodus may be the best in the whole book, but there are a lot of parts which imply one person talking to or seeing God directly and getting a response. I will be willing to fetch you one (no more, I can't be bothered) quote if you wish.

Now, this may be a bit off-topic, but you actually said what is, in several ways, the absolute opposite to me. You insisted that cablescavenger did not know of any quotes specifying that God had made himself immanent to a person. Here:

Thank you. I'm thinking the lack of response on the claimants part is just as self-explanatory.

Not to mention:

Well, we have yet to reach certainty whether or not he actually knows of any such quotes from the Bible,

I'm certain.

Which, in the context, can only be taken one way.

 

[waitasec]

The fact that we are here on this earth and that the universe exists, logically tells us that there is a divine Creator who is much greater than us.

maybe a divine creator who was incompetent and know what the hell it was doing...
for example the knee is a bad design
using one main passage for our food and air intake...
and what of our adrenal glands? ...too big for our bodies...
stress is the #1 cause of death...

yeah, suffice to say this designer was very incompetent :yes:

 

[muffin8or]

maybe a divine creator who was incompetent and know what the hell it was doing...
for example the knee is a bad design
using one main passage for our food and air intake...
and what of our adrenal glands? ...too big for our bodies...
stress is the #1 cause of death...

yeah, suffice to say this designer was very incompetent :yes:

The blind spot is always a good one to go with. The test on wikipedia is easy to perform and the results are borderline scary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_(vision)

Don't forget the recurrent laryngeal nerve Recurrent laryngeal nerve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It loops inefficiently round the heart to give function to the old larynx. This is because the heart of our fish like ancestors was above the nerve but as it dropped with evolution so to did the nerve. Ah, God is like a quack who botches up surgery. Who knows how much tequila he ingested before designing us

 

[Quagmire]

Firstly, there are a lot of times in the Bible when God makes himself immanent to people - it may not explicitly specify "face to face", which is why the quote from Exodus may be the best in the whole book, but there are a lot of parts which imply one person talking to or seeing God directly and getting a response. I will be willing to fetch you one (no more, I can't be bothered) quote if you wish.

Now, this may be a bit off-topic, but you actually said what is, in several ways, the absolute opposite to me. You insisted that cablescavenger did not know of any quotes specifying that God had made himself immanent to a person. Here:



Not to mention:





Which, in the context, can only be taken one way.

Your point?

 

[GA777]

So, let's try this again. How could the bible predict the future?

 

[waitasec]

So, let's try this again. How could the bible predict the future?

what are you talking about?

 

[GA777]

You didnt answer my question.

 

[waitasec]

You didnt answer my question.

if you can elaborate.... your question is rather ambiguous....

if you mean how? then i am to think...yes how...it isn't possible....

or if you have any predictions that have come to pass then post it...

it's a straightforward way of entering a discussion rather than potentially wasting time.


so again, what are you talking about?

 

[Quagmire]

Firstly, there are a lot of times in the Bible when God makes himself immanent to people - it may not explicitly specify "face to face", which is why the quote from Exodus may be the best in the whole book, but there are a lot of parts which imply one person talking to or seeing God directly and getting a response. I will be willing to fetch you one (no more, I can't be bothered) quote if you wish.

No thanks. But just for future reference: when someone says something like "I know of at least one", that person is acknowledging that there is "at least one", not that it's the only one. Other wise they would say something like "the one".

Now, this may be a bit off-topic, but you actually said what is, in several ways, the absolute opposite to me. You insisted that cablescavenger did not know of any quotes specifying that God had made himself immanent to a person. Here:

And you were insisting that he did? What were you basing that on? And if someone knows that something exists and where it is, why would it take them several days, pages, posts, and requests to produce those?

Not to mention:





Which, in the context, can only be taken one way.

Uh huh, glad you got that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So the floor opens. Do you have any proofs for religion or God? If they are or are part of the arguments above don't hesitate to make your points. I'm all ears and would love more light to shine on these arguments I'm not looking for strictly logical proofs but rather persuasive proofs. Feel free to bring in why you believe in God or personal experiences.

Sure, I have a proof that god exists: people believe god exists. This proves that god exists as a construct of the human mind, and being that god as a mind-construct is the only coherent or consistent description of god, I'd say the only meaningfully defined god clearly exists.

 

[cablescavenger]

And you were insisting that he did? What were you basing that on? And if someone knows that something exists and where it is, why would it take them several days, pages, posts, and requests to produce those?

heheh! my position never changed, it was the same before you got involved as it was when you started attacking me, as it was when I delivered your tongue on a stick.

It is the consistency and integrity that people have, that you choose to ignore and insult.

It took me days to respond because it was against my better judgment that I did, I was quite happy to let you go and research it yourself, rather than call people names for your shortcomings.

 

[McBell]

So, let's try this again. How could the bible predict the future?

It doesn't.
It never has.
It never will.


Unless you are fan of the Forer Effect.

 

[savethedreams]

It doesn't.
It never has.
It never will.


Unless you are fan of the Forer Effect.

Thank you finally somone says it.

 

[waitasec]

You didnt answer my question.

how impressive....
:run:

 

[Quagmire]

heheh! my position never changed, it was the same before you got involved as it was when you started attacking me,

Once again: asking someone to back up their claims is not an attack.

as it was when I delivered your tongue on a stick.

LOL! Your methods for interpreting reality are fascinating, and a little disturbing (and I'd just as soon not hear about any fantasies you may be having about my tongue, thanks).

It is the consistency and integrity that people have, that you choose to ignore and insult.

If you consider any requests that you actually validate your claims as an attack on or an insult to your "integrity", what are you doing in a debate forum?

It took me days to respond because it was against my better judgment that I did,

I was quite happy to let you go and research it yourself,

That's not the way this works. You make a claim, you supply the evidence for that claim.

rather than call people names for your shortcomings.

I never called you a name. I may have made you feel like you deserved to be called a few things, but I never actually voiced any of those myself.

Like I said: if I got you to actually make some attempt to back up one of your claims (for once), I'm satisfied. Feel free to make whatever shallow and ridiculously transparent rationalizations and accusations about imaginary abuse you need to in order to regain some modicum of your self-respect.