Proper Use of the Archaic Second Person Singular (Thou)

[Glaurung]

Every time I see people use thou and thee incorrectly it genuinely hurts me. So I am going to explain its correct usage and in turn increase thy knowledge of Early Modern English.

Thou is the second person singular. It is equivalent to the French tu or the German du. Thou itself is the normative form of the pronoun much like I is the normative form of the first person singular and he, she and it are the normative forms of the third person singular. The normative form marks the subject of the sentence.

Thee is the oblique form of the pronoun. Oblique means that the form cannot be used to mark a subject and in English this form is used to mark objects and indirect objects. Just as I becomes me and he and she become him and her, thou becomes thee whenever thou is an object.

Thy is the genitive. E.g. Thy hair, thy bed, thy soul. Again it is the same in function as my, his, hers, its, ect. However, if the noun being modified starts with a vowel sound then thou shouldst use the possessive form thine. E.g. Thine eyes are beautiful. Thine apples are expensive. Thine altar on high.

Finally we get to the possessive form which is thine. It is the same in function as mine, ours, yours, theirs, ect. E.g. The money is thine to spend as thou seest fit.

Now much like the French use of tu and the German use of du it is improper to address strangers and superiors with the singular. When speaking with someone with whom thou art not close thou shouldst use the second person plural ye or you. Counterintuitively, God is traditionally addressed in the singular.

When it comes to verb conjugation the second person singular takes the -st/-est ending. (Not including irregular verbs). The -th ending belongs to the third person singular and never to the second person. E.g. Thou takest, he taketh.

Irregular verbs conjugate in irregular ways (obviously) and there's no way around it except to memorize the forms. E.g. Thou art, thou hast, thou shalt, ect.

Now that I have explained how to decline and conjugate the second person singular I will hunt down anyone who gets it wrong henceforth.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Every time I see people use thou and thee incorrectly it genuinely hurts me.

And how often (and with whom) do you find yourself so afflicted?

 

[Glaurung]

And how often (and with whom) do you find yourself so afflicted?

I saw a video being suggested on YouTube entitled: Is Thou Girlfriend Single? Not that I would watch such ungrammatical rubbish but I when I see people on the internet attempt to use old forms they often get it wrong.

 

[Rival]

And how often (and with whom) do you find yourself so afflicted?

It's more common than you'd think.

Some translations from foreign languages with singular and plural second person is nearly always butchered by people who, despite being linguists, for some reason nearly always mess this up. They miss case endings, miss the differences between vowels and consonants that work the same way as a/an (thy bed/thine arm), forget use of 'thee' etc. It really grates if you're invested in older forms of English, which is butchered enough by layfolks without being reinforced by so called scholars.

 

[Glaurung]

And yes, I realize that addressing my readers in the singular is also bad usage, but I did so intentionally for demonstrative purposes.

 

[Revoltingest]

And how often (and with whom) do you find yourself so afflicted?

I'm the major offender here on RF.
I admit to ignorant usage.

 

[PureX]

I have to say that explained exactly nothing, for me. In fact, I'm far more likely to use those terms ... never, ... or if ever; correctly, via intuition than by applying that "explanation". Sorry.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I saw a video being suggested on YouTube entitled: Is Thou Girlfriend Single? Not that I would watch such ungrammatical rubbish but I when I see people on the internet attempt to use old forms they often get it wrong.

WOW - it seems pretty easy to get a rise out of thy.

 

[Glaurung]

I have to say that explained exactly nothing, for me. In fact, I'm far more likely to use those terms ... never, ... or if ever; correctly, via intuition than by applying that "explanation". Sorry.

Another way to get the feel for it is to just read a lot of Early Modern English. You'll learn to simply feel what is correct and incorrect. There's a reason most people don't confuse he and she with him and her. They've intuited the rules by exposure.

 

[PureX]

Another way to get the feel for it is to just read a lot of Early Modern English. You'll learn to simply feel what is correct and incorrect. There's a reason most people don't confuse he and she with him and her. They've intuited the rules by exposure.

The interesting thing about language is the supposed rules that govern it, don't. As they never hold true for long, or without exception.

 

[exchemist]

Every time I see people use thou and thee incorrectly it genuinely hurts me. So I am going to explain its correct usage and in turn increase thy knowledge of Early Modern English.

Thou is the second person singular. It is equivalent to the French tu or the German du. Thou itself is the normative form of the pronoun much like I is the normative form of the first person singular and he, she and it are the normative forms of the third person singular. The normative form marks the subject of the sentence.

Thee is the oblique form of the pronoun. Oblique means that the form cannot be used to mark a subject and in English this form is used to mark objects and indirect objects. Just as I becomes me and he and she becomes him and her, thou becomes thee whenever thou is an object.

Thy is the genitive. E.g. Thy hair, thy bed, thy soul. Again it is the same in function as my, his, hers, its, ect. However, if the noun being modified starts with a vowel sound then thou shouldst use the possessive form thine. E.g. Thine eyes are beautiful. Thine apples are expensive. Thine altar on high.

Finally we get to the possessive form which is thine. It is the same in function as mine, ours, yours, theirs, ect. E.g. The money is thine to spend as thou seest fit.

Now much like the French use of tu and the German use of du it is improper to address strangers and superiors with the singular. When speaking with someone with whom thou art not close thou shouldst use the second person plural ye or you. Counterintuitively, God is traditionally addressed in the singular.

When it comes to verb conjugation the second person singular takes the -st/-est ending. (Not including irregular verbs). The -th ending belongs to the third person singular and never to the second person. E.g. Thou takest, he taketh.

Irregular verbs conjugate in irregular ways (obviously) and there's no way around it except to memorize the forms. E.g. Thou art, thou hast, thou shalt, ect.

Now that I have explained how to decline and conjugate the second person singular I will hunt down anyone who gets it wrong henceforth.

God is referred to with thou because one is supposed to have a close relationship with God, presumably.

 

[Glaurung]

God is referred to with thou because one is supposed to have a close relationship with God, presumably.

Yes, and in the Christian case you could see it as also emphasizing the unity of the Trinity.

 

[Sirona]

Every time I see people use thou and thee incorrectly it genuinely hurts me. So I am going to explain its correct usage and in turn increase thy knowledge of Early Modern English.

Thou is the second person singular. It is equivalent to the French tu or the German du. Thou itself is the normative form of the pronoun much like I is the normative form of the first person singular and he, she and it are the normative forms of the third person singular. The normative form marks the subject of the sentence.

Thee is the oblique form of the pronoun. Oblique means that the form cannot be used to mark a subject and in English this form is used to mark objects and indirect objects. Just as I becomes me and he and she becomes him and her, thou becomes thee whenever thou is an object.

Thy is the genitive. E.g. Thy hair, thy bed, thy soul. Again it is the same in function as my, his, hers, its, ect. However, if the noun being modified starts with a vowel sound then thou shouldst use the possessive form thine. E.g. Thine eyes are beautiful. Thine apples are expensive. Thine altar on high.

Finally we get to the possessive form which is thine. It is the same in function as mine, ours, yours, theirs, ect. E.g. The money is thine to spend as thou seest fit.

Now much like the French use of tu and the German use of du it is improper to address strangers and superiors with the singular. When speaking with someone with whom thou art not close thou shouldst use the second person plural ye or you. Counterintuitively, God is traditionally addressed in the singular.

When it comes to verb conjugation the second person singular takes the -st/-est ending. (Not including irregular verbs). The -th ending belongs to the third person singular and never to the second person. E.g. Thou takest, he taketh.

Irregular verbs conjugate in irregular ways (obviously) and there's no way around it except to memorize the forms. E.g. Thou art, thou hast, thou shalt, ect.

Now that I have explained how to decline and conjugate the second person singular I will hunt down anyone who gets it wrong henceforth.

In German it's obvious.

thou - du
thy (hair) - dein (Haar)
thee - dir or dich (dative or accusative)
the altar thine - der Altar dein (historical or poetic use)

thou hast - du hast

I am always amused when I stumble across reports of U. S. parlament decisions. It's always yea or nay - Ja or Nein (colloquially Nee - pronounced nay in German).

 

[RestlessSoul]

A friend from Yorkshire, where thee and thou is still in fairly common vernacular use, used to trot out this little guide to proper usage;

"Don't thee thou me, thee thou tha'sen, and see how thou likes it."

To which my response as a Londoner was, "Keep your ecky-thump gobbledegook to yourself you whippet-botherer."

 

[Revoltingest]

In German it's obvious.

thou - du
thy (hair) - dein (Haar)
thee - dir or dich (dative or accusative)
the altar thine - der Altar dein (historical or poetic use)

thou hast - du hast

I am always amused when I stumble across reports of U. S. parlament decisions. It's always yea or nay - Ja or Nein (colloquially Nee - pronounced nay in German).

My German is even worse than my olde tymie English.
See...I even messed that up.

 

[sun rise]

My German is even worse than my olde tymie English.
See...I even messed that up.

'tis time thou gotest linguistic religion.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well it seems to me that 'thou' and 'thee' are the better fit for the end of a sentence than thy. I bet if I used these words, I would intuitively get it right most of the time, I just have a feeling that I would

 

[Glaurung]

The interesting thing about language is the supposed rules that govern it, don't. As they never hold true for long, or without exception.

Actually, all language is governed by rules even if those rules are not consciously understood by the speakers. Without grammar complex communication would be impossible. The details of correct usage do change over time and eventually these changes cumulate until the language becomes something entirely different. A Modern English speaker cannot understand Old English (Anglo-Saxon) without significant study as the differences between the two are vast. So you're right in that there's no such thing is incorrect grammar in any intrinsic sense but in a relative sense there absolutely is such a thing as correct and incorrect usage, especially if we're talking about a standardized language.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is all beyond me, I am still trying to figure out how to use "yous" properly. Do any of yous guys have an idea?

Oh! Wait, never mind. I think that I have it now.

 

[PureX]

It is all beyond me, I am still trying to figure out how to use "yous" properly. Do any of yous guys have an idea?

Oh! Wait, never mind. I think that I have it now.

Just skip the problem by saying "you'ns" or "ya'll". To hell with grammar.