Prophecy of Nuclear Holocaust in Surah Homaza

[rojse]

What the hell (no pun intended) are you two on about? I am lost. I know muffled sees the prophecy, rojse I pointed you to the 4 evidences present in the word proving that it was, indeed, a prophecy. What is your opinion on that?

My problem with these so-called prophecies is that these people are apparently gifted enough to see these events occur, but not gifted enough to know the modern words for the event itself, whether it be in English, or in any other language.

And I do remember your attempt to convince us that this was a prophecy of a nuclear holocaust.

Woe to every backbiter, slanderer,
Who amasses wealth and counts it over and over.
He imagines that his wealth will make him immortal.
Nay! he shall surely be cast into the "hotamah".
And what should make thee know what the "hotamah" is?
Allah's fire as preserved fuel,
Which will leap suddenly on to the hearts.
It is locked up in outstretched pillars to be used against them.

How do you interpret "Allah's fire as preserved fuel" to mean a nuclear weapon, when there are many interpretations that are just as valid and do not require as much suspension of disbelief as yours does? I have said before that coal is an interpretation that is just as valid in a physical sense, and hell is a valid metaphysical interpretation of this.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Didn't you get my response to that post. It is not "Allah's fire as preserved fuel" alone. It is

1. "Hotamah" which sounds very much like Atom and means the same
2. The "Hotamah" being mentioned as a special fire that leaps on the hearts.
3. The "Hotamah" being stored in extended columns.
4. The "Hotamah" coming to a people who think money will save them (moreso the property of our times than any other.

Please do read all my evidences on this. Combined thy become difficult to reject by the honest mind.

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

As the concept of the atom had not been born fourteen hundred years ago

You are absolutely right!

The concept of the atom is not 1400 years old.

It is 2400 years old. The earliest atomist were Democritus and Leucippus.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

We are not discussing the concept of the atom ... rather the atomic bomb ... that breaking things at the limits of their divisible potential releases great amounts of energy that "leaps upon hearts" and kills (that also gives us a lot of electricity, of course).

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

As the concept of the atom had not been born fourteen hundred years ago, the nearest substitute to it could only be hotamah which also sounds intriguingly close to atom (note the latin word for atom was Hatom).​

I could swear that you were talking about the concept of the atom in this paragraph. I should learn how to read then.

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

Strange is it not, to read that the sinful people of a certain description would be cast into the hotamah,

How does a nuclear bomb discriminate between good and sinful people when it goes off. In other words, how will it know who to kill and who not to kill?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Okay I will give you that Women of Reason. The concept of an atom existed 2400 years ago when Aristotle (I believe) proposed it. Somehow lets say Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) living among an illiterate nation and being illiterate himself heard about it.

But what about the concept of a "fire stored in an atom" that "leaps onto the hearts" and is "stored in extended columns" that will come at a time when "people think that their money will protect them"?

 

[rojse]

Okay I will give you that Women of Reason. The concept of an atom existed 2400 years ago when Aristotle (I believe) proposed it. Somehow lets say Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) living among an illiterate nation and being illiterate himself heard about it.

But what about the concept of a "fire stored in an atom"

Correction: Fire stored as preserved fuel.

that "leaps onto the hearts" and is "stored in extended columns" that will come at a time when "people think that their money will protect them"?

If you are talking about an atom bomb blast, how does an atomic blast leap onto the hearts? Saying that it will come at a time when people think that their money will protect them means nothing, as people have believed this far before Allah was even putting quill to parchment.

As for the extended columns that you discuss, how many atom bomb schematics have you examined in order to determine that the atomic material is stored in rods?

 

[Muffled]

My problem with these so-called prophecies is that these people are apparently gifted enough to see these events occur, but not gifted enough to know the modern words for the event itself, whether it be in English, or in any other language.

And I do remember your attempt to convince us that this was a prophecy of a nuclear holocaust.



How do you interpret "Allah's fire as preserved fuel" to mean a nuclear weapon, when there are many interpretations that are just as valid and do not require as much suspension of disbelief as yours does? I have said before that coal is an interpretation that is just as valid in a physical sense, and hell is a valid metaphysical interpretation of this.

Since the words in the Qu'ran were provided by God through the angel Gabriel to Mohammed "These people" doesn't apply.

God is describing something that people have not seen and have no word for. He could provide better information for our generation but He may have reasons not to.

 

[rojse]

Since the words in the Qu'ran were provided by God through the angel Gabriel to Mohammed "These people" doesn't apply.

God is describing something that people have not seen and have no word for. He could provide better information for our generation but He may have reasons not to.

And it was beyond the capabilities of God to spell out the phrase "atomic bomb", or it's equivalent in Hebrew?

If we are going to try and view any holy work in the view that it is a predictive book, we need to question why God, if he apparently wants to present the future to his followers, would present his the future in an obscure way, and the details of the prediction not matching the actual situation that is apparently being predicted.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

rojse thanks for pointing out the "preserved fuel" mistake. And yes, nuclear reactions can and are used as fuel too.

You did not read my previous posts as I requested you to. It is not the fire emerging from the atomic or nuclear bomb that kills people immediately. The immediate death is caused by the electromagnetic shockwave that precedes and travels faster than the fire or any other particles coming out after an explosion. It is this shockwave that kills (leaps onto the heart, so to speak).

People have believed money will protect them moreso in capitalism of today than any other time. Today, money is truly believed by a far more humans to be the real power.

As for the extended columns ... from the schematics I looked at they are mostly extended columns whereby the nuetrons are on one side of the column and "gun-pointing" towards the U-235 (or whatever fission/fusion material).

 

[rojse]

rojse thanks for pointing out the "preserved fuel" mistake. And yes, nuclear reactions can and are used as fuel too.

You did not read my previous posts as I requested you to. It is not the fire emerging from the atomic or nuclear bomb that kills people immediately. The immediate death is caused by the electromagnetic shockwave that precedes and travels faster than the fire or any other particles coming out after an explosion. It is this shockwave that kills (leaps onto the heart, so to speak).

People have believed money will protect them moreso in capitalism of today than any other time. Today, money is truly believed by a far more humans to be the real power.

As for the extended columns ... from the schematics I looked at they are mostly extended columns whereby the nuetrons are on one side of the column and "gun-pointing" towards the U-235 (or whatever fission/fusion material).

I have read your posts, and disagree with them. As I have said previously, the text is not precise enough in it's vocabularly, which leads us to interpret it in any way we see adequate. Although your analysis of the atomic bomb is valid in some regards, I think that other, more naturalistic events are just as applicable.

For example, I do not see how you could not shoehorn in, say, a volcano, either. The huge plume of smoke would be the column, the heat could be the lava itself, and people might think they could spend money to divert the course of the lava, and so forth.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Fine. We agree to disagree. Thanks for taking the time to read the posts.

 

[Muffled]

And it was beyond the capabilities of God to spell out the phrase "atomic bomb", or it's equivalent in Hebrew?

If we are going to try and view any holy work in the view that it is a predictive book, we need to question why God, if he apparently wants to present the future to his followers, would present his the future in an obscure way, and the details of the prediction not matching the actual situation that is apparently being predicted.

The Qu'ran is written in Arabic. In either case, it is up to the translator to pick the correct English words and many translators would prefer a literal rendering to "atomic bomb and rockets." I don't think you can fault the original language for not being English enough.

The objective is to keep things from those unworthy of hearing them but to provide them to those who are chosen.

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

Okay I will give you that Women of Reason. The concept of an atom existed 2400 years ago when Aristotle (I believe) proposed it. Somehow lets say Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) living among an illiterate nation and being illiterate himself heard about it.

Not Aristotle but Democritus and Leucippus. Anyways...
The Greek empire once spread from Greece to somewhere around Pakistan I would not be surprised if some of it's culture would have leaked down into Saudi Arabia... But you are right, Allah probably just told them... That's a much more plausible argument.

 

[Muffled]

Not Aristotle but Democritus and Leucippus. Anyways...
The Greek empire once spread from Greece to somewhere around Pakistan I would not be surprised if some of it's culture would have leaked down into Saudi Arabia... But you are right, Allah probably just told them... That's a much more plausible argument.

Of course from an atheists view any concept of God is implausible but that is a prejuidice not an objective viewpoint. The Bible and the Qu'ran tell of a God who knows all things and the future. One has to really work the imagination to believe that Greek science travelled to Mecca. As I recollect no one was beating a path to that city at that time.

If you want implausible the Hadith is filled with it. There is nothing to indicate that the suppliers of Mohammed's sayings were inspired in their assessment of those sayings. I would doubt that everything that Mohammed said was inspired by God. Not everything I say is inspired by God. I am still capable of my own egotistical thinking. So if this were a verse from the Hadith instead of the Qu'ran I would agree with you that it is implausible that it came from Mohammed but not implausible that Islam had travelled far enough to incorporate Greek science.