Prophet Muhammad did not marry a child

[England my lionheart]

I to could never condone it but i was accused by the op of that very heinous crime for saying exactly what you said.

The thread disappeared soon after so i assume it was either taken down by mods or the OP saw the error of her accusation.

I await an apology with baited breath. Not that I'll read it, after that abuse she is on ignore so ... Bof

Some people just don’t get it do they,sounds like ignore is the best place for her.

 

[firedragon]

Here is Quranic verse for it, aswell as Ibn Kathir commentary

Quran 65:4
As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery.1 And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them.

Here is Ibn Kathir commentary on it
"(4. Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses. And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden; and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will make his matter easy for him.) (5. That is the command of Allah, which He has sent down to you; and whosoever has Taqwa of Allah, He will expiate from him his sins, and will increase his reward.)
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. (see 2:228) The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

QTafsir Tafsir Ibn Kathir Mobile
QTafsir Tafsir Ibn Kathir Mobile

Either case. That doesnt take away child marriage of Aisha, but just context here

When you cut and paste like this, you should know that there are different methods of Quran tafseer throughout history, and generally the mufassireen do not give a Fatawa, but an application of a method. And though a lot of non-muslims around the world who understand Islam through non-muslim apologists don't know that Ibn Kathir's thafseer is one of the most basic level tafseers. For you to understand the level, lets say in school kids study up to grade 17 or 18, and in England you will do an A Level exam. It is that level.

Anyway, there are 11 different tafsir methods while there are three governing methods. It's a large topic, but the bottomline is, it is not so simple like the internet anti islamic polemicists do their shallow preaching. There is much more to it.

This is not "context" like you said. Tafsir is not context. Tafsir is commentary. Context is Siyak, and only the method of Quran bi Quran tafseer uses siyak in the methodology. This is in the traditional sense.

This is why it's better to investigate further or ask someone prior to making such comments.

Hope you understand.

 

[firedragon]

Is it true a girl can reach puberty as early as 8 years old?.

Rather than age for sex isn’t the get go puberty and courses in Islam,pre pubescent a child bride will stay with her parents but once she reaches nine her husband doesn’t require permission to consummate the marriage if she has reached puberty,however if she is physically unable to perform intercourse then touching and stroking (I feel sick) are allowed,am I right?.

Hmm. I can see you are teaching Islam here. Correct? Let me ask you a question on what you said above.

Jawaaz is when the approval for marriage is taken from the to be bride. Okay? This is according to every single fikh in traditional Islam.

Can you tell me what is the age of "Shadad" for a girl to give permission for marriage in Islamic tradition?

I ask since you have just given a ruling above.

 

[LarsNorway]

When you cut and paste like this, you should know that there are different methods of Quran tafseer throughout history, and generally the mufassireen do not give a Fatawa, but an application of a method. And though a lot of non-muslims around the world who understand Islam through non-muslim apologists don't know that Ibn Kathir's thafseer is one of the most basic level tafseers. For you to understand the level, lets say in school kids study up to grade 17 or 18, and in England you will do an A Level exam. It is that level.

Anyway, there are 11 different tafsir methods while there are three governing methods. It's a large topic, but the bottomline is, it is not so simple like the internet anti islamic polemicists do their shallow preaching. There is much more to it.

This is not "context" like you said. Tafsir is not context. Tafsir is commentary. Context is Siyak, and only the method of Quran bi Quran tafseer uses siyak in the methodology. This is in the traditional sense.

This is why it's better to investigate further or ask someone prior to making such comments.

Hope you understand.

So simple answer to this study would be? Was muhammad a pedophile? Yes or no?

 

[firedragon]

So simple answer to this study would be? Was muhammad a pedophile? Yes or no?

That's irrelevant to this topic. But I know there are some people who love using that word because of some personal pleasure. It's irrelevant.

What I was telling you is about cut and paste scholarship of yours. I was respectful earlier, but now I don't think you deserve it.

The study should be on what I said about methods of tafsir, understanding what they do, not make bogus statements like this is the context when someone has no clue what that is, etc etc. I have already stated in my post.

If you read again, you will see what it says in plain English.

Hope you can try and understand.

 

[LarsNorway]

That's irrelevant to this topic. But I know there are some people who love using that word because of some personal pleasure. It's irrelevant.

What I was telling you is about cut and paste scholarship of yours. I was respectful earlier, but now I don't think you deserve it.

The study should be on what I said about methods of tafsir, understanding what they do, not make bogus statements like this is the context when someone has no clue what that is, etc etc. I have already stated in my post.

If you read again, you will see what it says in plain English.

Hope you can try and understand.

No it isnt. Answer it. Thats what the topic is about. If you dont plan to then dont waste my time

 

[firedragon]

No it isnt. Answer it. Thats what the topic is about. If you dont plan to then dont waste my time

No it's not.

 

[Starlight]

No it isnt. Answer it. Thats what the topic is about. If you dont plan to then dont waste my time

Prophet Muhammad was not a pedophile. I believe many hadiths is false. And the hadiths about Aisha's age when prophet Muhammad married her is false and fabricated. I believe some people fabricated false hadiths because they was enemies of islam. They wanted to attack prophet Muhammad and because of this they fabricated false hadiths about him.

 

[stevecanuck]

Not all women menstruate. I believe the verse is about woman who do not menstrate because of illness or other different reasons.

As I said, "I've seen someone try to wriggle out of the latter by saying there are some mature women who don't menstruate for whatever reason, and that verse 4 is referring to them. To me, that's an obvious dodge", and I see you've chosen that route.

One of the seven translators on corpus.quran.com, Mohsin Khan, includes this, "(i.e. they are still immature)". Do you have credentials to match his?

Most likely Allah did not make it clear because Allah gave us humans common sense and reason. Allah expects people to understand that one does not marry children.

That statement is wholly gratuitous, not to mention absurd. The whole point of Allah revealing the Qur'an is to make his wishes known. He spent 6,236 verses trying to do just that.

 

[stevecanuck]

Haha. Have you read the Qur'an at all? Here you go people. Cherry picking in action.

• Steve. Do you know what "Annisa" means? Is it female or women? How do you define a woman?
• What do you call a young girl of prepubescent age in arabic?
• How does the Qur'an define marital age in chapter two?

Since you are providing scholarly exegesis of a book, you must have read it thoroughly no? So please shed light on the question I asked.

Thanks in advance. .

Nope. I'm quoting it. Big difference.

 

[stevecanuck]

Now see how some ignorant haters do the "he said" fallacy. It's called "appealing to authority".

Peace.

Nope. It's called quoting scholars on the question at hand. That's not what "appealing to authority" means. Every single time a student sits in a classroom and listens to a teacher, is he committing a fallacy?? Your 'logic' is laughable.

 

[stevecanuck]

More and more muslims believe that prophet muhammad did not marry a 9year old girl. So no, God did not fail

Again, that was another wholly gratuitous statement. Please state the studies that prove that claim.

 

[stevecanuck]

I would offer most Baha'i would also know and accept Muhammad did not break God's Law.

Regards Tony

Based on what? Verse 65:4 is pretty clear that wives can be prepubescent.

 

[firedragon]

Nope. I'm quoting it. Big difference.

Still,

• Steve. Do you know what "Annisa" means? Is it female or women? How do you define a woman?

• What do you call a young girl of prepubescent age in arabic?

• How does the Qur'an define marital age in chapter two?\

Since you don't know, say you don't know.

Nope. It's called quoting scholars on the question at hand.

Hmm. So when I replied to another person, you jumped in because you put the hat on right?

Mate. When someone differs to scholars, they should know the methodology employed by that scholar. Otherwise, it's appealing to authority.

You are fallacious.

 

[stevecanuck]

You don't know anything do you mate? That's why you can't answer anything.



Appealing to authority. But pretends to know it all.

You have no clue what world renown scholars have said. Quick searching on the internet is not studying a subject. You cant address the argument because it goes against your hate preaching attempt.

Still waiting to hear your take on 65:4.

 

[firedragon]

Still waiting to hear your take on 65:4.

It's speaking to women, not babies. It's speaking to divorcees, and to marry one has to be of mature age, and fully grown, according to the Quran.

• Steve. Do you know what "Annisa" means? Is it female or women? How do you define a woman?

• What do you call a young girl of prepubescent age in arabic?

• How does the Qur'an define marital age in chapter two?

You don't know? Say you have no clue but you pretend.

 

[Link]

Salam

It is said everything in Quran about past chosen ones pertains to Mohammad (s) in some way. I believe his actions were similar to Khidr (a). Just as we can't kill kids we can't marry kids either. Khidr (a) killed a child and Mohammad (s) married a child, but for what reason? It is against the law, shariah, and Quran, but he still did it per command of God. If you recite Surah Tahrim, you can see the wisdom of doing this all along.

It's to give context of choice. Aisha and Hafsa were part of an elaborate plan and warned to not be like wives of Lut (a) and Nuh (a) who rebelled against their respective husbands, but God exposed it, and showed it was part of his plan all along, and this is because God's plan account other people plan all along and Satan and his forces plans are weak.

The harsh warning tone shows it was a big plan against the Prophet and there was no way he would know except God informed him.

Aisha and Hafsa after Surah Tahrim, chose the Prophet over hypocrites and disbelievers, but did that choice remain stable? The harsh warnings not to be like wives of Nuh (a) and Lut (a) show there can instability.

This is a delicate dance against Gog and Magog vs God and his Prophet. Aisha was married as a child because of this delicate hidden war between good and evil.

And God knows best.

 

[stevecanuck]

You don't know anything do you mate? That's why you can't answer anything.



Appealing to authority. But pretends to know it all.

First YOU call it "relying on the scholarship of others", then when it suits you, it becomes "appealing to authority".

You've been busted.

You have no clue what world renown scholars have said.

Yes I do. I can read the works of seven of them on corpus.quran.com.

Please go ahead and tell us that Yusuf Ali, whose English translation was purchased for me in the Al-Azhar University book shop, is not a world-renowned scholar. That should be fun.

Quick searching on the internet is not studying a subject.

That was yet another pathetic strawman attempt at a blanket dismissal.

 

[firedragon]

First YOU call it "relying on the scholarship of others",

When?

Yes I do. I can read the works of seven of them on corpus.quran.com.

Corpus Quran translates it as "despaired". Not as prepubescent girls.

Please go ahead and tell us that Yusuf Ali, whose English translation was purchased for me in the Al-Azhar University book shop, is not a world-renowned scholar. That should be fun.

Does Yusuf Ali translate it as "young girls"? Not a single person can translate it as young girls or prepubescent girls. No one can.

 

[stevecanuck]

Still,

• Steve. Do you know what "Annisa" means? Is it female or women? How do you define a woman?

• What do you call a young girl of prepubescent age in arabic?

• How does the Qur'an define marital age in chapter two?\

Since you don't know, say you don't know.

I don't have to know. I get to, wait for it, "Rely on the scholarship of others" (to quote you).

Hmm. So when I replied to another person, you jumped in because you put the hat on right?

Mate. When someone differs to scholars, they should know the methodology employed by that scholar. Otherwise, it's appealing to authority.

You are fallacious.

Who is "differing to scholars"? There are a couple of apologists here who are doing that, but I'm certainly not. On the contrary I'm quoting them and relying on them.