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Prophets and Mystics (Mysticism DIR)
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
I'm having trouble with the OP. The words "prophet" and "mystic" are from a Western perspective and I spend most of my time in an Eastern one. From that frame-of-reference, I don't see the distinction you are drawing.
Also, could you cite mystics who have become atheists? Because to me to have an experience that causes one to deny the experience seems unlikely at best.
Also, could you cite mystics who have become atheists? Because to me to have an experience that causes one to deny the experience seems unlikely at best.
So, basically, you're saying you see little or no difference between prophets and mystics. Thanks for your input.
That finding was from the work of Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist. He did not identify individuals, but noted that about 22% of people who claim to have had mystical experiences are atheists*, and that some who have claimed to have had mystical experiences also claim that the experiences led them to become atheists.
I would suggest that notion that a mystical experience is always interpreted by the person who has one as an experience of god is simply not true.
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*Please note that the figure -- 22% -- is not offered as the percentage of atheists who have had mystical experiences, but rather as the percentage of atheists among those who claim to have had mystical experiences.
I did a quick search because this interests me and found 135. Dr. Andrew Newberg on God of the Fundamentalist Atheist | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point which is more about how people view "God" whether atheist or doctrinal Christian. So I have to wonder if what someone who says he's become an atheist is speaking more about not believing in an anthropomorphic God any longer.
I see a difference between what they do. From a traditional Eastern perspective I would say that not all yogis are gurus. And I see a difference in how people conceptualize divinity and their experience of divinity. But I don't compare/contrast them into two categories.
I have read several of Dr. Newberg's books and I would strongly caution you against forming conclusions about what is in those books based on your having read a single, short article/interview of Dr. Newberg. In his book, How Enlightenment Changes Your Brain, he notes -- but does not make a big deal about -- that some people who have mystical experiences become atheists because of those experiences.
Contrary to what many people expect, the mystical experience need not automatically or inevitably be interpreted as an experience of god. The Buddha certainly did not interpret what he called "nirvana" to be an experience of deity. Nor did Lao-Tzu interpret what he called "the Tao" to be an experience of deity.
The vast majority of people, however, interpret the mystical experience as an experience of god.
Not necessarily. As I see it, while a prophet may be a mystic dependent on his/her experience, a mystic's practices are geared toward self realization and understanding of that realization, while a prophet's practices are geared more toward being an intermediary between a divine being and humankind. The prophet's practice may or may not be inspired by a mystical experience.
Surely it depends on the descriptive and associative habits you've built up?
As for the OP - really depends what you call a prophet. One woman I saw once described a prophet as 'someone who speaks from the spirit', so yeah that's a mystic. But if it someone who is a channel for prophecy, then maybe not necessarily.
As for the OP - really depends what you call a prophet. One woman I saw once described a prophet as 'someone who speaks from the spirit', so yeah that's a mystic. But if it someone who is a channel for prophecy, then maybe not necessarily.
Yes, it can be very cultural or political, or ideological in some way. Those wouldn't be considered mystical as mystical experience transcends all of these. The prophet telling someone they need to go to war, has nothing to do with mystical realizations.
My experiences of 'oneness' I would not say was 'with God.' I was still the same size and shape, I just saw and/or felt connected to everything around me...neither superior nor inferior, neither separate nor 'totalness'...but in no wise did I feel like I was connected to "God."
Baladas
An Págánach
I think that it depends on the prophet and their personal experiences.
I would personally define a prophet as someone who claims a clear divine calling (usually from a specific deity), which usually involves delivering a message or performing a task of some kind.
I define a mystic as someone who has had a profound mystic experience that has led them to conclude that they are a part of the web of life, the Earth and/or the Universe. Most describe this as a union with (or a total immersion in the presence of) a god or gods, many do not.
People can obviously be mystics without claiming a divine calling or feeling that they are compelled to perform certain tasks or deliver messages.
I would personally define a prophet as someone who claims a clear divine calling (usually from a specific deity), which usually involves delivering a message or performing a task of some kind.
I define a mystic as someone who has had a profound mystic experience that has led them to conclude that they are a part of the web of life, the Earth and/or the Universe. Most describe this as a union with (or a total immersion in the presence of) a god or gods, many do not.
People can obviously be mystics without claiming a divine calling or feeling that they are compelled to perform certain tasks or deliver messages.
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Prophecy itself has mystical or mysterious qualities.
I know this is an older thread, but I like the topic. I find in my readings and studies, that a prophet is just a mystic who proselytizes. They receive a vision, word, or feeling of God(s) and then try to bring what they feel is the Truth, to as many as possible, through good or ill, because men are fallible.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Someone can pass a message because he/she is in close relationship with the author or someone is just a delivery person. I think prophets are also mystics unless they just offer their voice in trance like a medium.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Meister Eckhart distinguished between experience of God and experience of Godhead (active contemplation and deep contemplation).
"While I yet stood in my first cause I had no God and I was my own; I willed nothing and wanted nothing, for I was conditionless being, the knower of myself in divine truth. Then I wanted myself and nothing else. What I willed I was and what I was I willed. I was free from God and all things. But when I escaped from my free will to take on my created nature, then I acquired a God, for before creatures came into existence, God was not God. He was what he was. When creatures came into existence, God was not God in himself, but he was God in creatures."