Do these sentences seem a little short for an act of literal terrorism and treason?
How was Trump involved directly to get a sentencing?
How was Trump involved directly to get a sentencing?
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Proud Boys leader sentenced to 22 years for January 6
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
Well it is important to understand that all of these guys who are getting these long sentences are telling the court that they were just following Trump's orders.
Pretty sad, really. Presidents, Prime Ministers, Shahs, Kings and Queens, rulers from all around the world have been imprisoned and some even executed for their crimes -- but the U.S. can't do it? (Actually, I believe Jefferson Davis was technically a President -- of the Confederate States of America. But I suppose that doesn't count.)
I wouldn't consider all of these cases to be legitimate, such as the execution of Patrice Lumumba. Many of them appear to be the victims of right-wing military coups.
Jefferson Davis was imprisoned for a short time, but was never actually tried and was later freed as a result of a general amnesty issued to all former Confederates.
Well, at least in the case of Tarrio, the article I linked earlier explained that he had asked for leniency.
That seemed to be the general trend with a lot of these defendants, where they showed remorse, expressed profound regret, turned on the water works, and said "I didn't mean to do it!" If defendants show some contrition and throw themselves at the mercy of the court, judges might be inclined to give them a break.
For a group that calls itself "Proud Boys," their leader folded up and capitulated rather easily. I guess they really weren't quite so tough or dangerous after all.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Have you read the DoJ complaints of the people convicted? Were their trials unfair or just the sentences? In most cases the sentences were LESS that prosecution asked for.
What do you have to say about those who pleaded guilty to the charges?
Colt
Well-Known Member
Sentences were excessive and seems to be a double standard in prosecuting political protestors.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then you have no clue. First thing there were no legitimate "Jan 6 protesters". You should know that by now. You do not get to attempt an insurrection just because your side lost a fair election.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wow! You are under a very serious delusion.
Colt
Well-Known Member
After 4 years of attempting to overturn Trumps election with the fake Russian dossier paid for by the DNC, lies to the FISA courts, FBI lawyer altering emails, corrupt FBI, the Jan 6 protestors were angry and had reason to distrust a corrupt electoral system and the Fed.gov! But still, a little jail time for the leaders and more importantly paying for the vandalism is reasonable.
All sentences in the US are excessive, averaging the highest in the western world. In fact, Hungary, the next highest, has average sentences of half those in the US.
Colt
Well-Known Member
True, I think our entire justice system should be reformed.
Restoring my faith in the rule of law - one conviction at a time.....
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, but you are terribly confused. And now a conspiracy theorist as well. Trump may have been colluding with the Russians. We simply do not know. Trump was guilty of acts meriting impeachment and conviction. He merely got off because of Republican disrespect for the rule of law. In his first impeachment the Republicans knew that the evidence would be deadly for him and the party. So they did not allow for the presentation of any at his trial. For his second trial they knew how delusional their base was so they just used thr ostrich defense.
Don't worry, they will have Trump's trial soon enough and some of them, if not all, will be aired on TV.
Funny how they do a martyr-like act for their political beliefs and this is their reaction to a 20 year sentence.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Im aware that outside of your bias bubble you don't really know much about the truth!
The DNC "conspired" to hide funding of the dossier:
FEC fines Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC over Trump-Russia dossier research
Federal election regulators fined Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee earlier this month for not properly disclosing the money they spent on controversial opposition research that led to the infamous Trump-Russia dossier.
The DNC was fined $105,000 and the Clinton campaign was fined $8,000, according to a letter sent by the Federal Election Commission to a conservative group that requested an inquiry.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/29/politics/trump-putin-hunter-biden/index.html
Political candidates and groups are required to publicly disclose their spending to the FEC, and they must explain the purpose of any specific expenditure more than $200. The FEC concluded that the Clinton campaign and DNC misreported the money that funded the dossier, masking it as “legal services” and “legal and compliance consulting” instead of opposition research.
Former FBI lawyer pleads guilty in first criminal charge from Durham probe
Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith pleaded guilty to one count of making a false statement on Wednesday, admitting he doctored an email that was submitted to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court as part of a FISA application used to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page during the FBI's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.
Clinesmith, 38, worked for four years as an assistant general counsel in the National Security and Cyber Law branch at the FBI. In December 2019, Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz concluded that Clinesmith had altered a CIA email cited in the fourth application to the FISA court to surveil Page in 2017.
Ex-FBI lawyer agrees to one-year bar sanction after conviction
(Reuters) - Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith has agreed to a one-year suspension of his attorney license in Washington, D.C., following his conviction in August 2020 on a felony false-statement charge arising from the internal review of the special counsel's Russia investigation, new bar records show.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You never dig deep enough. I know, you believe what you want to believe. Clinesmith was found guilty of a minor infraction:
"The judge at his plea hearing asked Clinesmith if, when he added "and not a source" to the email, that he knew it was "in fact not true". Clinesmith told the court: "At the time I thought the information I was providing was accurate, but I am agreeing the information I inserted was not originally there, and I inserted the information."[25][26] Judge James Boasberg said that Clinesmith "'likely believed' that the information he inserted into the email was true, and that he was just 'taking an inappropriate shortcut' to save himself some work....[and that] Clinesmith obtained no personal benefit from his actions, and that the Justice Department's inspector general had found no evidence that Clinesmith acted out of political bias."[27]"
Colt
Well-Known Member
Of course, when an FBI lawyer on your side alters an email between the CIA and FBI that's a "minor infraction". If Trump did that you would clearly see the infraction!You never dig deep enough. I know, you believe what you want to believe. Clinesmith was found guilty of a minor infraction:
"The judge at his plea hearing asked Clinesmith if, when he added "and not a source" to the email, that he knew it was "in fact not true". Clinesmith told the court: "At the time I thought the information I was providing was accurate, but I am agreeing the information I inserted was not originally there, and I inserted the information."[25][26] Judge James Boasberg said that Clinesmith "'likely believed' that the information he inserted into the email was true, and that he was just 'taking an inappropriate shortcut' to save himself some work....[and that] Clinesmith obtained no personal benefit from his actions, and that the Justice Department's inspector general had found no evidence that Clinesmith acted out of political bias."[27]"
BTW, just what did the Russians do to cause Hillary to lose???
tytlyf
Not Religious
Here you go. I'm sure you've never heard any of this information before.
The Propaganda Tools Used by Russians to Influence the 2016 Election (Published 2018)
Thirteen Russian nationals have been charged with illegally trying to disrupt the American political process through inflammatory social media posts and organized political rallies.
Here's What We Know So Far About Russia's 2016 Meddling
It included hacking, spreading propaganda on social media and even staging rallies.
I remember when I was growing up, there were people who had very staunch political views, and there were even some songs, TV shows, and a lot of general (but often vague) talk about "revolution." Of course, we're a country founded in revolution, so we can't dismiss it entirely as a concept, and throughout history, there have been other revolutions and revolts which have had mixed results. The causes are varied, and I think the merits of a given revolt might be evaluated on the worthiness of the cause they're fighting for.
But when considering this bunch, this might be considered "revolt of the crazies."
I mean, over the decades that I've been alive, I've seen a lot of righteous dissent against the system. People have had grievances over police brutality, military policy, foreign policy, civil rights, racism, gun violence, an unfair/incompetent justice system, economic disparities, policies which make the rich richer and the poor poorer, outsourcing, the deterioration of our infrastructure - and so many other issues and reasons for complaint against the government. Perhaps not enough to justify insurrection, but in recent times, I've noticed what seems to rile up some people to fight.
But in this case, we hear about "Proud Boys" and "Q-Anon Shaman," as if it's a badly-written movie plot.