prove me wrong on evolution

[Zeno]

i'm a kinda person that accepts what make sense to me.

Well wouldn't it "make more sense" to a non-specialist that the world is flat. Or that sperm cells are just really really tiny humans. Or that the earth is the center of the universe, etc, etc.

Anyway, I don't mean to nitpick but if everyone just accepted what is simple and makes sense, we would be in loads of trouble.

 

[worshiper]

Originally Posted by worshiper
i'm a kinda person that accepts what make sense to me.

Well wouldn't it "make more sense" to a non-specialist that the world is flat. Or that sperm cells are just really really tiny humans. Or that the earth is the center of the universe, etc, etc.

Anyway, I don't mean to nitpick but if everyone just accepted what is simple and makes sense, we would be in loads of trouble.

whats wrong with that? you do realize that people go thru process of thinking and reasoning before things make sense to them, dont you? or are you that kinda guy you are talking about?

Originally Posted by camanintx
Why do you think the concept of life evolving from a single cell over millions of years is impossible when you yourself grew from a single cell to an adult human in only 20 years? It sounds like you think of life as an increadibly delicate state when experience shows it is really quite resilient.

why do you think i think as you claim?

 

[camanintx]

why do you think i think as you claim?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe it was the line in you're post that said "Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable."

Why can't a 'simple' cell evolve over millions of years to contain billions of nucleotides if a single cell can grow into an adult human with 100 trillion cells in just a matter of years?

 

[worshiper]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe it was the line in you're post that said "Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is laughable."

Why can't a 'simple' cell evolve over millions of years to contain billions of nucleotides if a single cell can grow into an adult human with 100 trillion cells in just a matter of years?

that was a quote ... read what i wrote, not what i quote (wow sounds like rap ). i'm not siding any. i'm a pro of both. hamster : here we go hoo ... hoo yo yo yo!)

 

[camanintx]

that was a quote ... read what i wrote, not what i quote (wow sounds like rap ). i'm not siding any. i'm a pro of both. hamster : here we go hoo ... hoo yo yo yo!)

Sorry, the "*make sense dont it?" at the end led me to believe you agreed with the position you quoted. Do you still think it makes sense?

 

[worshiper]

Sorry, the "*make sense dont it?" at the end led me to believe you agreed with the position you quoted. Do you still think it makes sense?

does it matters to you so much?

 

[rojse]

To worshiper, I have heard before that some religious people combine the idea that God created all of the animals and also allowed them to evolve. Please explain how the two are compatible to you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... that is how i came to my conclusion that evolution did happened but to some extend. and certainly not without divine intervention. and may i add, God's science is much much much much more advance than our science.

Since you appear willing and eager to make wholly unstubstantiated statements, you may add whatever you wish, but perhaps you would start by clarifying to what extent evolution did not happen.

 

[worshiper]

To worshiper, I have heard before that some religious people combine the idea that God created all of the animals and also allowed them to evolve. Please explain how the two are compatible to you.

basically, the problem with science, tho its the definite truth. you only will confirm it when it is tested and proven. other than that its just theories.theories thru time, can change once new proofs are found.

my criteria of religion is, it must come hand in hand with science. because if god is the creator and the all knowing. then he should know science. surely at times the verse may sound ridiculous and against the law of nature. but just like the science theories, we have to keep an open mind on the subject. perhaps we need a little more time to understand them because maybe just maybe our scientific understanding on the matter is not adequate yet.


take this verse for instance ...

Quran 55:37
"And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide"


if you lived 1400 years ago, you can only imagine what God is talking about in this verse. but if you live in this time, you will probably understand better because you have the scientific means to confirm it.

picture from
http://images.google.com.my/imgres?...ula&um=1&start=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=1
"26 November 2003
Cats may have nine lives, but this star only has one and here it is caught in its death throes, causing this ejection of glowing gases into outer space over a thousand years ago. NGC 6543 is 3000 light-years away in the northern constellation Draco.

Taken by the Wide Field and Planetary Camera on board NASA/ESA's Hubble Space Telescope, this image shows one of the most complex planetary nebulae ever seen, NGC 6543, nicknamed the 'Cat's Eye Nebula'."

 

[painted wolf]

um... I hate to break it to you, but this is what is called a "falce color image".
Its designed to show the types of matter/energy being expelled, not the actual color.

wa:do

 

[rojse]

To dismiss everything in science as merely theories is a fallacy. Gravity is a theory - we have not actually directly measured gravitational waves, but there are no people that say "oh, gravity does not exist, it's only a theory".

The great thing about science is that people constantly test it's ideas and theories. I have read about scientists speculating about ideas that seem ludicrous and are the opposite of our current scientific knowledge and theories, and this is a good thing. Any thing that we disprove about our current scientific knowledge leads to an improved understanding of our world and the universe.

Conversely, I have never heard any religious people say: "hmm... I wonder if God really exists or not? How would I go about proving his existence?"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

um... I hate to break it to you, but this is what is called a "falce color image".
Its designed to show the types of matter/energy being expelled, not the actual color.

Don't confuse him with science ...

 

[blueinchains]

If anyone is still reading this thread, I have some questions for the originator of this post.

-do you believe in something higher than yourself?
-did you create yourself?
-where did you come from?
-where did your ancestors come from?
-where did human intelligence come from?
-where did the things of nature come from?
-why can we not reproduce the things of nature?
-if we evolved over countless billions of years, why are we not still evolving?
-why is there no record, no evidence, no fossil account of one type of animal evolving into another?
-how does the human heart start beating in the womb?
-if your answer to any of these questions is 'evolution', then where did evolution come from?
-where did science come from?
-where did your information come from?
-how is it that you believe it to be true?
-where did creation come from?
-how do you explain the formation of the single cell organism?
-do you know how complex even the single cell organism is?

If we can debate evolution and creationism, then we must believe that there was a beginning to everything, and that maybe there is an ending. But where did beginnings and endings come from? Why is it that humans measure everything in their existance by time? This belief in a beginning and ending is, I believe one of the biggest reasons why this debate even exists, and maybe why some athiests don't believe in God.
Let me start out by saying that I truly love everyone on this earth as children of our everlasting God and I am confident in saying that, even though I am sure someone will try and belittle that. I don't feel that this subject should be debated at all, but that we should all try and gain a higher understanding of our world. There is no way for anyone to prove either point accurately. Everything is perception, a matter of belief. Why is money valuable? Because we 'believe' it is. How do we know a yard is a yard of measurement? Because we 'believe' it is. How do we know the things of history ever happened? Because we believe they did. Noone can explain why we believe what we do, so I ask, where did belief come from?
Is it true that we use an average of 10% of our brains? Why can't we use the whole 100%? What would we believe if we could? This brings me to the question I get asked most by my brothers and sisters who do not believe in an awesome Creator-God.
WHERE DID GOD COME FROM?
I don't know. But I have a belief that may help some to understand why I staunchly believe in Him(notice how many times I use the word believe).
I believe that God has always existed and let me tell you why. Going back to a previous point, humans are limited by a thing we call 'time'. For some reason, scientists, humans, and every living creature on earth are bound by a natural, instinctual knowledge of time; in other words, a beginning and ending. But, again, where did these concepts come from? What I believe is that God existed before there was a such thing as 'time'. Before there was a such thing as 'beginnings and endings'.
I believe He was the one who created the very act of creation, which would include the creation of time. There is no explaination for the existance of God because humans cannot fathom anything ever existing outside the boundary of 'time'! Do you follow me? God was here before there was a beginning or ending, before there was a such thing as creation, or evolution for that matter. God does not exist in our boundaries of time, and I believe it is foolish to try to place him on the same plane as ourselves. There is no explaination of creation, or evolution, without the existance of a designer of creation or evolution. Neither can exist without it being designed to exist that way.
As far as our history can show, everything came from something. There simply had to be a designer for everything because to say that we just happened by chance is to say (and I don't know the original author of this saying) that you can throw a bomb into a junkyard and come out with a 747 airplane. A single cell organism is a purely physical being, so how does that explain our emotions, or intelligence, our ability to choose and reason?

I am truly looking for an expanded knowledge of these questions and will continue to search them out. I believe in God because I choose to believe in him. I am always told by athiests that I should respect the fact that they donot believe in God, but I ask that you give me the same respect in that I do believe in Him. Allow me to praise my God just as I allow you to denounce Him. That, I feel, is only fair.

Forgive me if I have repeated someone elses thoughts, but I didn't get a chance to read the many responses to this thread. :angel2:

 

[camanintx]

See the other thread for my reply.

 

[Shaz202]

I am a creationist and have proof that you are wrong.

1. Matter cannot be created or destroyed- law of conservation.

2.Evolutionists say that the dot in which the big bang happened was spinning faster and faster and then exploded.

Well would you agree with me if I said this:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]If you put four fourth graders on a merry go round and then you had a high school football team out pushing it the kids would enter 4 phases[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 1: First they would be screaming at the foot ball players to go faster[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 2: Then they would be silent concentrating on holding on[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 3: Then they would start screaming again but this time saying slow down[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 4: Then they would start flying of the merry go round thus flying in the same direction they were spinning[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]So if something is spinning really fast and the pieces fly off would they be flying the same direction they were spinning? duh yeah[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well if in fact that little dot with all the matter in the world was spinning faster faster and then exploded and all the planets and universes and galaxy's flew off ... everything every planet should be spinning in the same direction right? Well they are not![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]2 planets and 6 moons are spinning in a different direction than the other planets!!![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well that just proved that evolution is made up![/FONT]

I dont know how you can believe what you have been fed from a child, dont take any offense please

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am a creationist and have proof that you are wrong.

2.Evolutionists say that the dot in which the big bang happened was spinning faster and faster and then exploded.

"Evolutionists" don't say that. The theory of evolution has nothing at all to do with the Big Bang, the formation of the solar system, abiogenesis, or anything that happened before life came to be on Earth. The theory of evolution deals with the effects of natural selection and random mutation on populations of living organisms... and nothing else.

Well would you agree with me if I said this:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]If you put four fourth graders on a merry go round and then you had a high school football team out pushing it the kids would enter 4 phases[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 1: First they would be screaming at the foot ball players to go faster[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 2: Then they would be silent concentrating on holding on[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 3: Then they would start screaming again but this time saying slow down[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 4: Then they would start flying of the merry go round thus flying in the same direction they were spinning[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]So if something is spinning really fast and the pieces fly off would they be flying the same direction they were spinning? duh yeah[/FONT]

Duh, nope. Each kid would fly in a straight line directly away from the merry-go-round.

Rotation around a point is caused by centripetal acceleration. If you don't have anything imparting a centripetal force, you don't have a centripetal acceleration, which means you don't have circular motion.

When the kids are on the merry-go-round, this centripetal force is supplied by friction (where they rest on the platform of the merry-go-round) and normal force (where they hold onto the bars). When they're flying through the air, they don't have anything to supply this centripetal force. The individual kids might be spinning, they might not, but they certainly don't start orbiting the merry-go-round.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well if in fact that little dot with all the matter in the world was spinning faster faster and then exploded and all the planets and universes and galaxy's flew off ... everything every planet should be spinning in the same direction right? Well they are not![/FONT]

I don't know where you heard that the Big Bang was all matter in the universe being flung off a point spinning like a merry-go-round, but you may want to do a bit more research on what the theories around the origins of the universe actually say.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]2 planets and 6 moons are spinning in a different direction than the other planets!!![/FONT]

Seeing how these seem to be caused by impacts between planets, moons and large asteroids, what do you think this proves?

You might want to find a pool hall and play around a bit to see what happens when spheres hit other spheres... all sorts of weird spinning motions can happen.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well that just proved that evolution is made up![/FONT]

Nope. Not even close.

Tips for next time:

- base your claims of what science says on what science actually says.
- know what you're talking about. Your merry-go-round example showed a lack of knowledge of basic physics.
- if you set out to disprove evolution, try talking about evolution... or at least life.

I dont know how you can believe what you have been fed from a child, dont take any offense please

No offense taken. A bit of puzzlement, but no offense.

 

[yossarian22]

I dont know how you can believe what you have been fed from a child, dont take any offense please

Oh the irony.
Hooray for satire!

 

[vandervalley]

Well if in fact that little dot with all the matter in the world was spinning faster faster and then exploded and all the planets and universes and galaxy's flew off ... everything every planet should be spinning in the same direction right? Well they are not!

2 planets and 6 moons are spinning in a different direction than the other planets!!!

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well that just proved that evolution is made up![/FONT]

I dont know how you can believe what you have been fed from a child, dont take any offense please

But then again if you look at the bigger picture; all the stars in our milkyway galaxy are going in the same direction; around the centre core of the galaxy

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I am a creationist and have proof that you are wrong.

1. Matter cannot be created or destroyed- law of conservation.

2.Evolutionists say that the dot in which the big bang happened was spinning faster and faster and then exploded.

Well would you agree with me if I said this:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]If you put four fourth graders on a merry go round and then you had a high school football team out pushing it the kids would enter 4 phases[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 1: First they would be screaming at the foot ball players to go faster[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 2: Then they would be silent concentrating on holding on[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 3: Then they would start screaming again but this time saying slow down[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]PHASE 4: Then they would start flying of the merry go round thus flying in the same direction they were spinning[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]So if something is spinning really fast and the pieces fly off would they be flying the same direction they were spinning? duh yeah[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well if in fact that little dot with all the matter in the world was spinning faster faster and then exploded and all the planets and universes and galaxy's flew off ... everything every planet should be spinning in the same direction right? Well they are not![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]2 planets and 6 moons are spinning in a different direction than the other planets!!![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Well that just proved that evolution is made up![/FONT]

I dont know how you can believe what you have been fed from a child, dont take any offense please

OMG....Is this a joke? Honestly. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you were serious, that has to be the most ignorant and poorly thought-out thing I have ever heard....ever.

 

[UnTheist]

OMG....Is this a joke?

I refuse to interpret it as anything else.