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Prove that humans aren't blind to God's existence
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I'm guessing that you rely on your senses, and your ability to predict reality based on the information that they've given you in the past, such as gravity will help you stick to the floor, that there is a floor, that it's not made of taffy or fog, and the like? What I'm saying, toms, is that in every area of your life except one, you use the exact same reasoning as I do. Then you take one area: religion, and wall it off, and suddenly empricism doesn't work any more, and you should be skeptical of whether gravity will still operate or not. You can't function that way. What works for you every day of your life is that you trust your senses--provisionally. You believe things that are based on evidence, subject to learning new evidence. I apply the same method you use for everything else to God as well. Otherwise it's special pleading. Which is, of course, a fallacy.
keith_Thornton
New Member
What do belief, ideation, or sentiment have to do with objective fact? These are all obstacles to the clear perception of a fact. Those who believe in God are unwittingly cutting themselves off from it; their beliefs are entirely subjective and therefore not real.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Aren't all beliefs entirely subjective? Does that make them unreal?
tomspug
Absorbant
What's ironic is that you're trying to demonstrate how boxed in my religion is, but it seems like it is YOUR beliefs that are boxed in. Gravity could operate entirely differently than we assume it is. Everything we know about genetics could get thrown out the window with a new discovery. THIS is the NATURE OF SCIENCE, funny that you don't understand that. A real scientist EMBRACES CHANGE. A scientist is completely open to the existence of "new" evidence and "new" discoveries. It is ideologists, not skeptics and scientists, that cling to our current understanding of the world.
You seem under the impression that my religion is somehow stagnant and doesn't change. How would you know, sir? Obviously, you wouldn't. My relationship with God is constantly changing, as are my views of the world and the people in it, it is called "growth", and I embrace it wholeheartedly, in my religion, and everywhere else. The only reason MY religion seems boxed in to you is because it isn't the same as yours!
tomspug
Absorbant
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that everything we do is inherently flawed. If God were a clock-maker God, this would be the case, I'm sure. There would be nothing but destruction and chaos in our world.
We like to think that it is the mind that protects us from war and chaos, but have you read The Prince? It is our mind that tends to CAUSE war and chaos! What is it, then? Our feelings? No... those tend to fan the flames of conflict, caused by the mind. What then?
This is the purpose of religion, to believe that there are words and ideas that were not originated from the mind or heart of a man, but from an unflawed source. I'm not just talking about Christianity, I'm talking about religion, in general. Not all religions believe that mankind is flawed, but they nonetheless believe that a certain text is more right than other texts, usually through divinity, but many have not stopped to think about WHY we believe in religion in the first place.
Religion helps us to become better than we currently are, not in a Darwinistic sense, but a moral sense, whether through enlightenment, godliness, or a battle against sin. It is a recognition of a problem, within ourselves, and a struggle to fix it.
THIS is why there is so much religion in the world, because people want to make themselves better people, which leads us to the real question: WHY DO THEY WANT TO DO THAT?
You're not disagreeing with Autodidact, here. The post you're replying to spoke of the ability to predict reality.
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Are you saying that Autodidact (who, by the way, is a "ma'am" - not a "sir"), doesn't know what is in your heart and mind? Like you tried to do to me in the thread "Palin Religious Affiliation" (regarding my views on Huckabee)?
By the way - I'm still waiting for your retraction and apology in that thread.
tomspug
Absorbant
Why would I ever want to predict reality? That just sounds like a smartsy way of saying "experiencing reality", which is affected by your preconceived notions, but not defined by them. And I responded properly. My life, nor my religion, is defined by preconceived notions. You live in the moment, you learn from the past, and you look to the future.
*raises eyebrows* Why? I don't follow. God's works (us) would be entirely imperfect if we had a clock-work world (which usually means one in which everything is controlled)?
But not from us; not our ideas and words. So if our understanding too is inherently flawed --if God has the only unflawed being --then our idea that we are flawed must also necessarily be flawed. It's a feedback loop that creates a dilemma, which in logic usually indicates an error in reasoning.
Do you have an answer to that?
No, it's more like a smartsy way of saying, "we don't know what really-real reality is because then we'd be God". We don't have that perfect understanding.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Because that's how you get through life. You predict that if you're 30 minutes late to work, you'll need a good excuse or you might be in trouble. You predict that driving 25 MPH over the speed limit will get you a ticket if you are caught by a cop. You predict that if you don't put your shoes on, your feet will be cold/hurting/calloused. These are just a few examples of the predictions we all make every moment of our lives.
Everything is defined by pre-conceived notions. By learning from the past, you're using those pre-conceived notions to make predictions.
little_monkey
atheist
Those who have attained perfection will die of boredom.
Not in my belief.
little_monkey
atheist
This would suggest that your beliefs are boring. Hope this is not what you intended?!?
Rolling_Stone
Well-Known Member
Hindu saying: "God was one and being one he became lonely, so he became many."
From the UB: "[We] can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness." This is perfection without loneliness, without boredom.
little_monkey
atheist
:sleep:
Not in my belief.
little_monkey
atheist
Great, so anything I throw back at you will be met with the same response. That makes me think of the concept, everything is an illusion. To any objection, all one has to do is to reply, "But that's an illusion".
Yep, after a while, it gets boring..........:sleep: