Psychics and Mediums should be tried for Fraud.

[Mycroft]

Now before we begin. This only applies to those who present themselves as genuine psychics and mediums and make money from it. Someone such as Derren Brown, for example, does not put forth the notion that there is any 'supernatural' ability he possesses.

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

 

[dawny0826]

Now before we begin. This only applies to those who present themselves as genuine psychics and mediums and make money from it. Someone such as Derren Brown, for example, does not put forth the notion that there is any 'supernatural' ability he possesses.

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

I don't watch a lot of television, but, I genuinely enjoy the show, Long Island Medium.

I've noticed that the majority of people who seek her support are looking for help with closure. It doesn't, in my opinion matter whether or not she has the genuine ability to speak with the dead. She's perceptive enough and is capable of delivering "messaging" compassionately enough that what she offers is a valuable service, regardless.

I'm not familiar with others who claim to be psychic or medium. And I think most in this day and age present their services as an "entertainment" to protect themselves. It's up to the consumer, really, as to how useful such services translate.

 

[Skwim]

Now before we begin. This only applies to those who present themselves as genuine psychics and mediums and make money from it. Someone such as Derren Brown, for example, does not put forth the notion that there is any 'supernatural' ability he possesses.

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

So what of preachers who make money by claiming that by following their directives a person will have a better afterlife than if they don't? To slightly paraphrase the remark of another poster here: They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have information for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

Of course, in both cases "no evidence" is open to interpretation, so what may be "no evidence" to you may well qualify as sufficient evidence to someone else. Gotta do better than just cast stones here, Quatermass. Gotta substantiate your assertion that there's no evidence.

 

[Thana]

They don't make money from the vulnerable, They make money off the stupid. Or the true-believers, It's up to you to decide whether or not to differentiate the two.

I don't think it's fraud,
And like Skwim said, Might as well call preachers frauds, maybe throw in actors too just for fun.

Please provide evidence for your no evidence claim

 

[Mycroft]

They don't make money from the vulnerable, They make money off the stupid. Or the true-believers, It's up to you to decide whether or not to differentiate the two.

I don't think it's fraud,
And like Skwim said, Might as well call preachers frauds, maybe throw in actors too just for fun.

Please provide evidence for your no evidence claim

A lot of people who go to seek mediums are genuinely distraught from the loss of a loved one. I call that vulnerability, not stupidity.

Presenting something as having any basis in reality without there being any evidence and making money off it is fraud. You are defrauding someone by providing non-existent goods for their money.

It would be like me sending you an empty Xbox box through the mail and claiming that you just have to believe to see it.

 

[Skwim]

A lot of people who go to seek mediums are genuinely distraught from the loss of a loved one. I call that vulnerability, not stupidity.

As are those who seek solace through the promises of religion.

Presenting something as having any basis in reality without there being any evidence and making money off it is fraud.

And all the supernatural elements of religion do have a basis in reality? By the very definition of "supernatural" such elements lie outside reality.

You are defrauding someone by providing non-existent goods for their money.

You do realize, do you not, that there are people who are satisfied with the help they get from mediums.

It would be like me sending you an empty Xbox box through the mail and claiming that you just have to believe to see it.

Not unlike many of the claims of religion: "believe and you shall be saved" (Acts Acts 16:31) to cite one.

 

[Awoon]

Now before we begin. This only applies to those who present themselves as genuine psychics and mediums and make money from it. Someone such as Derren Brown, for example, does not put forth the notion that there is any 'supernatural' ability he possesses.

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

Psychics and Mediums are soul readers. They pick up on the energies of the souls of people and make determinations. Same as Psychiatrists and Psychologists. For less pay.

 

[Amechania]

I wonder what percentage of psychics actually believe they have supernatural abilities? That would seem to be the key in a fraud indictment, wouldn't it?

 

[psychoslice]

But how could you police that, like is there really such thing as someone who can see the future, how would you even prove that, maybe their all frauds, one knowing they are and the other not realizing they are.

 

[Sha'irullah]

If psychics are to be tried for fraud then so should all religious preaches as well. God knows they are trying to scam everyone in a 10 mile radius.

By making this assertion you are opening multiple cans of worms that would demand the conviction of religious ministers.

 

[Erebus]

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

Going to be a bit pedantic here, but this is a bugbear of mine. Loads of people say that there is "no evidence whatsoever" for anything from psychics to gods to cryptids and so on. What they mean is "there's no proof" or "I find the evidence unconvincing." The simple fact that people insist they have personally witnessed psychic ability etc is in itself evidence of the existence of psychic power... it's just really, really rubbish evidence.

Anyway on topic. I don't think psychics should be convicted of fraud unless it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that they prey on the vulnerable, manipulate people for financial gain and have no belief in the powers they claim to have. Some psychics certainly do fulfill these criteria, others don't.

 

[oldbadger]

Now before we begin. This only applies to those who present themselves as genuine psychics and mediums and make money from it. Someone such as Derren Brown, for example, does not put forth the notion that there is any 'supernatural' ability he possesses.

But people who do should be convicted of fraud. They make money (often from the vulnerable) by claiming to have powers for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Which is, in short, fraud.

Hello Quatermass..... if you do celebrate it....Merry Christmas!

I think that you are quite wrong about this.

Many professional people claim to have skills, and can show degrees etc, but who are absolutely useless, and just charge exorbitant fees. Many Tradespersons cause more damage than repairs, and often service engineers charge for spare-parts and time when all that they needed to do was tighten a bolt, or repair a connection.

I do accept that some mediums and spiritual healers are not able to help people, but others are truly amazing, and deserve the donations and other monies that they receive. There is clear evidence that they are very valuable to humanity. Many healers can actually heal, do have the most powerful placebo effect, etc. The spiritualists can offer much relief to some people who have lost loved ones and cannot cope.

Is it rude to ask you ,'What do you do for a living?' ? You may be able to admit that there are many incompetents, rogues and bad people within your own trade or profession, possibly?

If we banned all trades and professions that were filled with rogues, we would have none at all.....

 

[Mycroft]

Going to be a bit pedantic here, but this is a bugbear of mine. Loads of people say that there is "no evidence whatsoever" for anything from psychics to gods to cryptids and so on. What they mean is "there's no proof" or "I find the evidence unconvincing." The simple fact that people insist they have personally witnessed psychic ability etc is in itself evidence of the existence of psychic power... it's just really, really rubbish evidence.

I find your definition of 'evidence' to be a little off. 'Evidence' is not 'Here is a mould of bigfoot's footprint'. That is not evidence.

Evidence is

1) Someone claims to have bigfoot's actual foot.
2) tests are run.
3) Result is that DNA is from unknown organism.
4) Someone replicates this test.
5) The results are verified.
6) You may now say 'This is evidence of bigfoot' (but still not proof).

So in other words, something is only evidence once it has been reproduced and verified in controlled conditions. To date no psychic ability has undergone this with success.

 

[Mycroft]

Hello Quatermass..... if you do celebrate it....Merry Christmas!

I think that you are quite wrong about this.

Many professional people claim to have skills, and can show degrees etc, but who are absolutely useless, and just charge exorbitant fees. Many Tradespersons cause more damage than repairs, and often service engineers charge for spare-parts and time when all that they needed to do was tighten a bolt, or repair a connection.

And if you report such professionals to trading standards (at least in England), they will be investigated and possibly charged as a result.

I do accept that some mediums and spiritual healers are not able to help people, but others are truly amazing, and deserve the donations and other monies that they receive. There is clear evidence that they are very valuable to humanity. Many healers can actually heal, do have the most powerful placebo effect, etc. The spiritualists can offer much relief to some people who have lost loved ones and cannot cope.

So can counselling. Which has verifiable and reproducible results.

Is it rude to ask you ,'What do you do for a living?' ? You may be able to admit that there are many incompetents, rogues and bad people within your own trade or profession, possibly?

I'm a scientist. And a counsellor.

If we banned all trades and professions that were filled with rogues, we would have none at all.....

Untrue.

 

[Mycroft]

Thankfully some people see the light: Psychics charged in alleged scam held to answer in Superior Court

 

[Reverend Rick]

These things should be dealt with on a case by case basis. I must also say some of these posts make me suspect anti-religious bigotry.

 

[Slorri]

Yes, it is quite suspicious why you come here to the paranormal forum and aggressively convict the mediums and the psychic, Quartermass.

Surely we should not accuse and convict people based on our own ignorance in the subject matter or our own scepticism.

 

[Erebus]

So in other words, something is only evidence once it has been reproduced and verified in controlled conditions.

I think most courts would disagree with you there. Eye witnesses are considered unreliable, but evidence nonetheless.

But hey, it's a minor quibble just one that comes up a lot.

 

[Reverend Rick]

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