Putting God's Design In Perspective

[shunyadragon]

I was wondering how the flood got in there.

It is part of the package that the writers and the Church Fathers considered literal history. The topic of the thread is the Biblical view of the history of the world and universe, and the description of the origins/ Right on topic.

 

[nPeace]

Check this out. Everything in our milky way galaxy is just right for life.

Just-Right Design of the Milky Way Galaxy

I've been seeing a few documentaries where they claim to have found many earth-like planet that fit the requirements.
I don't recall the one I saw, but it might be close to this... or it might be this, which is nearly an hour and half.

Here is a short one on "water planets".
Astronomers Say TRAPPIST-1 Planets May Hold More Water Than Earth

You can also look here for more.
earth sized planets found - YouTube

 

[nPeace]

It is part of the package that the writers and the Church Fathers considered literal history.

How do you know is the question. How do you know what the writers meant the reader to understand? How do you know what you just stated?

 

[shunyadragon]

Lets hit at the aritotilian description of the universe for now. Why dont that fit?

From: Biblical cosmology - Wikipedia

"Biblical cosmology is the biblical writers' conception of the cosmos as an organised, structured entity, including its origin, order, meaning and destiny.[1][2] The Bible was formed over many centuries, involving many authors, and reflects shifting patterns of religious belief; consequently, its cosmology is not always consistent.[3][4] Nor do the biblical texts necessarily represent the beliefs of all Jews or Christians at the time they were put into writing: the majority of those making up Hebrew Bible or Old Testament in particular represent the beliefs of only a small segment of the ancient Israelite community, the members of a late Judean religious tradition centered in Jerusalem and devoted to the exclusive worship of Yahweh.[5]

The ancient Israelites envisaged a universe made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6]Humans inhabited earth during life and the underworld after death, and the underworld was morally neutral;[7] only in Hellenistic times (after c.330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8] In this period too the older three-level cosmology in large measure gave way to the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the center of a number of concentric heavens.[6]

The opening words of the Genesis creation narrative (Genesis 1:1-26) sum up a view of how the cosmos originated: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"; Yahweh, the God of Israel, was solely responsible for creation and had no rivals.[9] Later Jewish thinkers, adopting ideas from Greek philosophy, concluded that God's Wisdom, Word and Spirit penetrated all things and gave them unity.[10] Christianity in turn adopted these ideas and identified Jesus with the Logos (Word): "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)."

 

[nPeace]

@Jollybear Distraction 12 o'clock.

 

[youknowme]

I'm pretty sure we were an unexpected consequence.

There is no such thing as an "unexpected consequence" with an all-knowing creator.

 

[youknowme]

.

​

So, the question is, "Why"? Why did god bother with it all?
.

He was bored. What would you do with unlimited power and time?

Ever play SimCity?

 

[David T]

.

Up until relatively recently people considered our solar system and the stars above (whatever they were) to be thee center of god's creation. Eventually some of the dots in the sky were recognized to be planets that revolved around our earth, as did the Sun, all of which made up our solar system. This was corrected when it was confirmed that the Earth and these other planets went around the Sun. Some time later it was discovered that the stars were just like our sun: our Sun was star. With better equipment, astronomers then found that some of the other "stars" were actually great "clouds" of light, which they called nebulae. Further investigation revealed that these nebulae were actually tremendous accumulations of stars, which they termed galaxies. (The term "nebula" has since been changed to denote great clouds of interstellar dust and other ionized gasses.) And there are trillions of these galaxies. So our "universe" went from being a solar system, to include the vast reaches of space, But the structure of our universe doesn't end there. The gravity between galaxies has drawn them into enormous clumps, which in turn form galaxy superclusters---our Milky Way galaxy is part of the Laniakea supercluster. Moreover, the distances between all these elements of the universe are enormous, usually denoted in light years; the distance light travels in one year. The closest spiral galaxy to us is the Andromeda Galaxy (M31), which is two million light years away.

To give you an idea of how immense the universe is,

"Right now, the observable universe is thought to consist of roughly:

10 million superclusters
25 billion galaxy groups
350 billion large galaxies
7 trillion dwarf galaxies
30 billion trillion (3×10^22) stars, with almost 30 stars going supernova every second"
source​

Within the Milky Way galaxy our star is 1 among 100-400 billion other stars.

​

And:

So, the question is, "Why"? Why did god bother with it all? While the existence of our plant and the life on it depend on the configuration of our solar system, they don't depend on the existence of neighboring stars, the Milky Way, other galaxies, galaxy superclusters or any other far reaching structures of the universe.

Of course, I don't expect any answer to be more than speculation, but I am looking to see how one squares the enormity of the universe, both in size and content, with the contention that it was all designed by god.

.

Until recently?

Lets see it was recorded in like 450bc that the stars are suns so who knows but that was probably understood 10,000 years ago at least off and on who knows exactly the data is lost.

 

[Salvador]

The building blocks of particles are like fuzzy clouds of probability waves, without any definite attributes, until they are observed by a conscious mind. In other words, the universe doesn't exist without any human consciousness; we humans are an essential part of our universe, because unlike anything else, our human consciousness is what collapses the wave functions of the cosmos. Our entire universe is indeed designed to exist only in conjunction with just the human mind.

 

[youknowme]

The building blocks of particles are like fuzzy clouds of probability waves, without any definite attributes, until they are observed by a conscious mind. In other words, the universe doesn't exist without any human consciousness; we humans are an essential part of our universe, because unlike anything else, our human consciousness is what collapses the wave functions of the cosmos. Our entire universe is indeed designed to exist in conjunction with the human mind.

What is a probability wave?

 

[wandering peacefully]

.

Up until relatively recently people considered our solar system and the stars above (whatever they were) to be thee center of god's creation. Eventually some of the dots in the sky were recognized to be planets that revolved around our earth, as did the Sun, all of which made up our solar system. This was corrected when it was confirmed that the Earth and these other planets went around the Sun. Some time later it was discovered that the stars were just like our sun: our Sun was star. With better equipment, astronomers then found that some of the other "stars" were actually great "clouds" of light, which they called nebulae. Further investigation revealed that these nebulae were actually tremendous accumulations of stars, which they termed galaxies. (The term "nebula" has since been changed to denote great clouds of interstellar dust and other ionized gasses.) And there are trillions of these galaxies. So our "universe" went from being a solar system, to include the vast reaches of space, But the structure of our universe doesn't end there. The gravity between galaxies has drawn them into enormous clumps, which in turn form galaxy superclusters---our Milky Way galaxy is part of the Laniakea supercluster. Moreover, the distances between all these elements of the universe are enormous, usually denoted in light years; the distance light travels in one year. The closest spiral galaxy to us is the Andromeda Galaxy (M31), which is two million light years away.

To give you an idea of how immense the universe is,

"Right now, the observable universe is thought to consist of roughly:

10 million superclusters
25 billion galaxy groups
350 billion large galaxies
7 trillion dwarf galaxies
30 billion trillion (3×10^22) stars, with almost 30 stars going supernova every second"
source​

Within the Milky Way galaxy our star is 1 among 100-400 billion other stars.

​

And:

So, the question is, "Why"? Why did god bother with it all? While the existence of our plant and the life on it depend on the configuration of our solar system, they don't depend on the existence of neighboring stars, the Milky Way, other galaxies, galaxy superclusters or any other far reaching structures of the universe.

Of course, I don't expect any answer to be more than speculation, but I am looking to see how one squares the enormity of the universe, both in size and content, with the contention that it was all designed by god.

.

That's an easy one! What else would an eternal living god do with all that time?

Certainly he could have a chance of becoming bored to dearth by creating one earth and galaxy. Especially with no one to talk to for all that time save a relative hand full of messengers?

So he does what all humans do: quess, experiment, fail and repeat. Except god has to do it for eternity. Poor guy.

 

[Salvador]

What is a probability wave?

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-probability-wave

"A wave function in quantum mechanics is a description of the quantum state of a system. The wave function is a complex-valued probability amplitude, and the probabilities for the possible results of measurements made on the system can be derived from it. .The state of such a particle is completely described by its wave function Ψ(x,t). So it’s the Solutions of Schrodinger Equation

and The solution is Ψ(x,t) = A e^i(kx-wt) + B e^-i(kx-wt)

where x is position and t is time. This is a complex-valued function of two real variables x and t. Following are the general forms of the wave function for systems in higher dimensions and more particles, as well as including other degrees of freedom than position coordinates or momentum components.

Since Ψ(x,t) is analogous to Amplitude of wave.

So for any kind of wave, we know I is directly proportional to A^2. The same is also for Quantum Mechanics .Here the Intensity means frequently observing the particle in a particular place in other words, Probability of finding the particle in a particular place .

Therefore chance or probability of finding the particle in place is obtained by |Ψ(x)|^2 = Ψ(x)Ψ(x)* which is Probability Amplitude Function.

Here given a graphical representation of Ψ(x) & Ψ(x)|^2 for an electron bounded in different orbits in an atom to visualize the fact

So, wave function is quantum state of any object how it behaves in a system etc but probability density is that function by which we determine the chances (probability)of finding that object in a certain time and space."

 

[InChrist]

.


So, the question is, "Why"? Why did god bother with it all?

.

I believe the answer is that God is awesome and His magnitude beyond our ability to imagine, therefore His creativity is very, very big, expansive, and incredible.

 

[youknowme]

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-probability-wave

"A wave function in quantum mechanics is a description of the quantum state of a system. The wave function is a complex-valued probability amplitude, and the probabilities for the possible results of measurements made on the system can be derived from it. .The state of such a particle is completely described by its wave function Ψ(x,t).


and The solution is Ψ(x,t) = A e^i(kx-wt) + B e^-i(kx-wt)

where x is position and t is time. This is a complex-valued function of two real variables x and t

I am not a physicist. I am gonna need that in layman's terms. What I see is a function were I assume A and B are slope coefficients, and I see we exponentiate from a base e, but I don't know what i is nor do I know what k and w are. So if you really understand what that means please break it down for someone who only knows the very basics of physics.

 

[Salvador]

I've been seeing a few documentaries where they claim to have found many earth-like planet that fit the requirements.
I don't recall the one I saw, but it might be close to this... or it might be this, which is nearly an hour and half.

Here is a short one on "water planets".
Astronomers Say TRAPPIST-1 Planets May Hold More Water Than Earth

You can also look here for more.
earth sized planets found - YouTube

These water worlds might bode well for the prospect of extraterrestrial microscopic life, but may not bode well for extraterrestrial life being highly evolved and especially intelligent like us Earthling humans.

 

[Salvador]

I am not a physicist. I am gonna need that in layman's terms. What I see is a function were I assume A and B are slope coefficients, and I see we exponentiate from a base e, but I don't know what i is nor do I know what k and w are. So if you really understand what that means please break it down for someone who only knows the very basics of physics.

the definition of probability wave

"A quantum state of a particle or system, as characterized by a wave propagating through space, in which the the square of the magnitude of the wave at any given point corresponds to the probability of finding the particle at that point. Mathematically, a probability wave is described by the wave function, which is a solution to the wave equation describing the system."

 

[youknowme]

the definition of probability wave

"A quantum state of a particle or system, as characterized by a wave propagating through space, in which the the square of the magnitude of the wave at any given point corresponds to the probability of finding the particle at that point. Mathematically, a probability wave is described by the wave function, which is a solution to the wave equation describing the system."

So the "building blocks" are not "probability waves". A probability wave is just an equation for the probability of finding the particle at that point and at that time.

 

[Glaurung]

Of course, I don't expect any answer to be more than speculation, but I am looking to see how one squares the enormity of the universe, both in size and content, with the contention that it was all designed by god.

Your argument from incredulity besides, I don't see any conflict. All we need to know by way of Divine Revelation is that there is a creator who sustains all things in being. The inner workings of this creation while a fascinating and worthy study are not salvific truths. Why is the universe so vast? I don't know.

I sometimes go outside at night and look at the stars. And far from a unconscious expanse, I see instead the creative magnitude of God.

 

[Skwim]

How is it that in your mind if God Creates, it's because of us?

It isn't, but a lot of Christians do think we are pretty darn special in god's eyes, some even believing we're the best thing he's ever created.

 

[Salvador]

So the "building blocks" are not "probability waves". A probability wave is just an equation for the probability of finding the particle at that point and at that time.

Particles or sub-particles don't exist at any particular point in space until they are consciously observed. The particles' wave function collapses into a particle with defined attributes only if somebody were consciously observing this. Our minds, unlike anything else, has the power to collapse the wave function. Why do you think this happens?