Putting the JW Stand on Evolution into Perspective

[Curious George]

Let me try and explain what i meant... i don't believe in evolution, i did look into it years ago and it's not something i can accept. That is why i said i won't go into a discussion about it in this thread.
So i am not sure how i am distorting anything. You are obviously welcome to your opinions and beliefs... i will not judge you on that.

I said that i believe God created everything, how He did it i don't know. If He felt that it was important for me to know the specific details then it would have been in the scriptures...

Am I hearing you correctly that you are saying, "I don't believe in evolution, but I'm not telling you why?"

And this is because you feel there is nothing to profit from pursuing truth?

 

[shawn001]

Let me try and explain what i meant... i don't believe in evolution, i did look into it years ago and it's not something i can accept. That is why i said i won't go into a discussion about it in this thread.
So i am not sure how i am distorting anything. You are obviously welcome to your opinions and beliefs... i will not judge you on that.

I said that i believe God created everything, how He did it i don't know. If He felt that it was important for me to know the specific details then it would have been in the scriptures...

Why be in a thread on religion and evolution debate then?

How to build a lot of things aren't in the bible. So why bother, in how anything works?

 

[Curious George]

Let me try and explain what i meant... i don't believe in evolution, i did look into it years ago and it's not something i can accept. That is why i said i won't go into a discussion about it in this thread.
So i am not sure how i am distorting anything. You are obviously welcome to your opinions and beliefs... i will not judge you on that.

I said that i believe God created everything, how He did it i don't know. If He felt that it was important for me to know the specific details then it would have been in the scriptures...

You are not distorting anything by refraining from discussion. Nor are you distorting anything by simply stating you don't understand or something specific doesn't make sense to you.

The distorting comes into play when people say "evolution says this, and they are wrong" or "evolutionists can't explain this" There is a lot that I can't explain but that does not mean there are no explanations.

 

[newone]

I really have no interest in discussing evolution. Reason i posted here was to give my opinion on the percentage of JW's that believe in it. I was under the impression that none of them believe in it and not 8% as the study indicated. There are many threads on this forum dealing with evolution...

 

[Sapiens]

the 8% are likely under cover, fearing retribution and shunning.

 

[newone]

the 8% are likely under cover, fearing retribution and shunning.

Have you ever spent time with JW's??

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Personally i don't believe in evolution. I am not going to spend/waste any time going into it. What will it add to my life/existance if i do? NOTHING. Will it change anything for me? NO...
Can i say exactly what process God used to create life? NO. Again i am not going to go into it. I will however give Him the credit for creation.

How can i become a better person and hopefully receive God's favour? By finding out what God's purposes are. Putting on the new personality that He requires of me. Then MAYBE at some point He will approve of my life/worship and grant me a better life. This gift is all i am seeking... if/when at the end it's all just make believe then so be it. At least my worship would have made me a better person.

The JW's spend most of their time putting on the "new personality" and trying to live the life that God requires of them. Also going out and telling people about God's promises and plans for the future...(which he commanded them to do).

Just my opinion... The JW's may correct me if i am wrong!

Why do you reject evolution? If you think its possible or simply don't know about it thats fine but to reject it would mean you have some reason to disbelieve it. That is a part that makes me curious. Also would you teach your children it is false? Surely you wouldn't teach your children or anyone else that a theory was false if you have never put in the effort to understand the theory.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I don't think there are holes per se, however I do know that there are unresolved questions with several competing viable theories. Such as is the case with the evolution of DNA.

But I hope everyone here realizes that science is supposed to lead to more questions. This is a characteristic of knowledge: the more we know, the more we realize we do not know. However, the knowledge we gain answers some very important questions along the way.

I can agree there will always be unresolved questions. But what are the other "competing theories" you speak of?

 

[Curious George]

I can agree there will always be unresolved questions. But what are the other "competing theories" you speak of?

Whether DNA evolved from RNA, whether it developed parallel, whether pna, tna, or gna existed instead or alongside rna, which replicators developed first, which proteins were present, how long the protein chains were, whether viruses involved, why DNA replaced RNA whether viruses were involved, why is there a difference in the replication process of DNA in bacterial vs. Archaea and eukarya...you name it there are theories...these theories are being tested and narrowed and refined and all that jazz. But I am no expert on the subject, but I do recognize there are plenty of unanswered, but will eventually be answered, questions.

One day I will get around to catching up on all the latest and greatest of evolutionary theory, and then I will come here and have more developed posts. Apologies if this is not enough. I again throw out the disclaimer that I am no expert in this field.

 

[Bunyip]

Whether DNA evolved from RNA, whether it developed parallel, whether pna, tna, or gna existed instead or alongside rna, which replicators developed first, which proteins were present, how long the protein chains were, whether viruses involved, why DNA replaced RNA whether viruses were involved, why is there a difference in the replication process of DNA in bacterial vs. Archaea and eukarya...you name it there are theories...these theories are being tested and narrowed and refined and all that jazz. But I am no expert on the subject, but I do recognize there are plenty of unanswered, but will eventually be answered, questions.

One day I will get around to catching up on all the latest and greatest of evolutionary theory, and then I will come here and have more developed posts. Apologies if this is not enough. I again throw out the disclaimer that I am no expert in this field.

As far as I know, none of those hypothesis regarding rna synthesis and so on conflict with the theory of evolution - do you have an example?

 

[Curious George]

As far as I know, none of those hypothesis regarding rna synthesis and so on conflict with the theory of evolution - do you have an example?

What?

 

[Bunyip]

What?

Well you infer that there are competing theories, I don't know of any - do you have an example? In the fields you identify the current hypothesis do not conflict with evolution.

 

[Curious George]

As far as I know, none of those hypothesis regarding rna synthesis and so on conflict with the theory of evolution - do you have an example?

I can't really understand your question as it is missing a key verb. But if you are asking how these conflict with evolution you are barking up the wrong tree. These are all theories in molecular evolution, which is under the umbrella of general evolution. So every one of these theories support evolution. I don't think you will find any theories outside of evolution as going against the substantial evidence already accumulated would be akin to trying to prove that everything is made of earth, fire, wind and water instead of the substances in the periodic table.

 

[Curious George]

Well you infer that there are competing theories, I don't know of any - do you have an example? In the fields you identify the current hypothesis do not conflict with evolution.

They are competing amongst themselves to answer the unanswered questions in molecular evolution.

 

[Shak34]

I posted this on another thread but here as well. I can't find any charity work JW's do other then for JW's. Do they do any?

I guess that would depend on a persons idea of charity. They could view going out in service ( also called door to door and preaching work) as charity but I could be wrong. I found this on their website about charitable planning.

WAYS IN WHICH SOME CHOOSE TO GIVE

CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WORLDWIDE WORK

Many set aside, or budget, an amount that they place in the contribution boxes labeled “Worldwide Work.”

Each month, congregations forward these amounts to the office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves their respective countries. Voluntary donations of money may also be sent directly to Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., or to the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves your country. (Voluntary donations specified in the sections below can also be sent to the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves your country.) Checks sent to the above address should be made payable to “Watchtower.” Jewelry or other valuables may be donated as well. A brief letter stating that such items are an outright gift should accompany these contributions.

CONDITIONAL-DONATION TRUST ARRANGEMENT

Money may be placed in trust with Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania for use worldwide. However, upon request the funds will be returned. For more information, please contact the Treasurer’s Office by writing to the address noted above or by telephoning.

CHARITABLE PLANNING

In addition to outright gifts of money, there are other methods of giving to benefit Kingdom service worldwide. These include:

Insurance: Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania may be named as the beneficiary of a life insurance policy or a retirement/pension plan.

Bank Accounts: Bank accounts, certificates of deposit, or individual retirement accounts may be placed in trust for or made payable on death to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, in accord with local bank requirements.

Stocks and Bonds: Stocks and bonds may be donated to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania as an outright gift or Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania may be named as a Transfer on Death beneficiary.

Real Estate: Salable real estate may be donated either by making an outright gift or, in the case of residential property, by reserving a life estate to the donor, who can continue to live therein during his or her lifetime. Contact the branch office in your country before deeding any real estate.

Gift Annuity: A gift annuity is an arrangement whereby one transfers money or securities to a designated corporation that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses. In exchange, the donor, or someone designated by the donor, receives a specified annuity payment every year for life. The donor receives an income-tax deduction for the year in which the gift annuity is established.

Wills and Trusts: Property or money may be bequeathed to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania by means of a legally executed will, or Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania may be named as beneficiary of a trust agreement. A trust benefiting a religious organization may provide certain tax advantages.

As the term “charitable planning” implies, these types of donations typically require some planning on the part of the donor. To assist individuals desiring to benefit the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses through some form of charitable planning, a brochure has been prepared in English and Spanish entitled Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide. The brochure was written to provide information on a variety of ways that gifts may be made either now or through a bequest at death. After reading the brochure and conferring with their own legal or tax advisers, many have been able to help support our religious and humanitarian activities worldwide and maximize their tax benefits while doing so. This brochure may be obtained by requesting a copy directly from the Charitable Planning Office.

For more information, you may contact the Charitable Planning Office, either in writing or by telephone, at the address listed below, or you may contact the branch office that serves your country.
Cheerful Giving From the Heart — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Looks like you are right and they are their own charity work.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Whether DNA evolved from RNA, whether it developed parallel, whether pna, tna, or gna existed instead or alongside rna, which replicators developed first, which proteins were present, how long the protein chains were, whether viruses involved, why DNA replaced RNA whether viruses were involved, why is there a difference in the replication process of DNA in bacterial vs. Archaea and eukarya...you name it there are theories...these theories are being tested and narrowed and refined and all that jazz. But I am no expert on the subject, but I do recognize there are plenty of unanswered, but will eventually be answered, questions.

One day I will get around to catching up on all the latest and greatest of evolutionary theory, and then I will come here and have more developed posts. Apologies if this is not enough. I again throw out the disclaimer that I am no expert in this field.

That is a fair answer. I was afraid you were going to consider ID and evolution as competing theories.

 

[rusra02]

First of all if that chart is right I don't know why all those people even have a religion (which generally means they believe in God) and also believe in evolution. I think there are a lot of confused people out there.
Second, evolution has more holes than a swiss cheese. I've studied it for a long time and the more I learn, the more problems and less answers I find. I don't believe in evolution not because of religion but because it doesn't make sense to me.
From the origin of life - never properly explained much less proved - to the millions ans millions of happy coincidences, not ignoring the many cases where "evidence" was fabricated to prove evolution, there are so many things wrong with it that it makes me sad to see how easy it is to fool so many.
Given everything I've learned so far, I don't think JW are the ones being brainwashed.

I agree and so do scientists who haven't been brainwashed or bullied into toeing the evolution doctrine orthodoxy.

 

[rusra02]

Not at all because the origin of life is not germane to evolution. Evolution has to do with how life evolves from one form to another, and not how it initially arose. Life could have arisen from some primordial muck eons ago, arrived from outer space, or was snapped into being by a couple of gods three thousand years ago. It Just-Doesn't-Matter. And your insistence that the origin of life is germane to evolution plainly shows that you haven't "studied the issues of those people who support evolution" as you claim. *sigh*

Thinking people would disagree that the ToE and how life began are unrelated. That is the ToE response to an embarrassing question. "Uh, it doesn't matter...let's move on"

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I agree and so do scientists who haven't been brainwashed or bullied into toeing the evolution doctrine orthodoxy.

The crazy thing is that the only scientists that actually actively oppose evolution are from these organizations that are built specifically with the objective in mind to discredit evolution. You can't blame a near universal acceptance of evolution on bullying. The fact of the matter is that evolution evidence is undeniable. Do you think that people are bullied into accepting that the earth is round and that we orbit the sun and the moon is made of rock?

 

[McBell]

Over the years I've had this same conversation many times and it always ends up the same way.
I did consider spending a few hours of time I don't have answering all your questions but I would be wasting my time. In your mind you already decided that because I refuse evolution as a fact I am ignorant and stupid. Nothing I can say will make you see me or others who don't believe in evolution differently.

I did see this article on BBC this morning that I found fitting, probably to all of us: BBC - Capital - How we wrongly convince ourselves we’re right

So far all you have done is make a bunch of bold empty claims.
If you are wanting to have any credibility at all on the topic of evolution, you might want to do something other than make bold empty claims.

Just a suggestion, but so far you are all talk and no substance.