Quantum physics can account for miracles

[Surya Deva]

Fortunately, unlike Vedic "physics", actual physics is quite keen on this quantization thing.

The equation for the pressure generated by the Casimir force on two neutral, parallel surfaces a distance a apart is:

Now, since the only actual variable there is the distance, we can reduce all the other symbols into one constant. Thus, we have 8.14 × 10^-27 × a^-4. This is very, very, very small.

However, since it's not quite bleedingly obvious how bad this is for your levitating mystics, I did the algebra, and worked out how close the mystics must be to the floor to simply counteract the air pressure pushing them down. The answer is 16 billionths of a meter. This is a length smaller than that of visible light, or any sort of biological cell. It is over 1,000 smaller than the width of human hair. The mystic could not achieve this separation if they had a laser range finder.

And this is the maximum distance that the mystic could use. Anything larger, i.e. macroscopic, and the force is overwhelmed by mere air pressure. Gravity is a lot stronger than air pressure.


While technically true, (apart from the nonsense about "quantum channels") look again at the explanation above. In quantum terms, nanometres are considered long distance. Similarly, protons and neutrons are considered very heavy.

You're trying to tunnel an entire carbon atom, all dozen heavy nucleons, across a distance of meters? Forget it. Don't just forget doing it inside the current universe - forget doing it inside a universe that lives a trillion times longer than this one.

Wait, hang on, I misheard you? You don't want to transport a carbon atom? You want to transport 602,214,100,000,000,000,000,000 of them? OK, I don't have enough memory to work out how long that'd take.

(Not to mention that the mystic's body would sooner dissolve into goop than coherently tunnel through a wall. )

Haha, thank you for the mathematical equations and the comic commentary! However, you are assuming here quantum effects only happen at the atomic and subatomic scale, but we know for a fact that quantum effects happen at the macro scale too, in fact the actual real reality of any macro object is quantum and it can indeed be described by quantum physics.

Notice, the actual scientist I cited in the levitation article, himself admitted the casimir force could be used to theoretically levitate larger objects such as a human, only that currently we don't have the technology to do it.

If a macro object like a particle can teleport, then why can't a larger macro object like a body also teleport? To say a particle can, but a larger body cannot is an arbitrary assumption.

Also, one last thing...
I hope nobody actually tries to do this. "Collapsing the body into light," normally referred to as "annihilation", converts 100% of the body's mass into energy. With a 50kg mystic, this results in 50kg*c^2 = 1 gigaton of TNT of energy. You're detonating 200 copies of the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated, and you want to re-materialize at the other end? Seriously?

You misinterpret. It does not mean converting the body literally into light energy(which in the Vedic equivalent is tejas particles) it means collapsing the body into the quantum(vedic equivalent is akasha) It describes it through the metaphor of "light as cotton" to denote a completely non physical object. It is indeed describing the quantum tunnelling of the human body. The body enters into the akasha and then exits it to get to another point in space without travelling through real space.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Your linked article supports what I said, since all is a function of scale. Moreover, I doubt that even scaling
quantum effects up by cooling them to near absolute zero would yield a practical human teleportation device.

Humansicles anyone?

 

[Surya Deva]

Your linked article supports what I said, since all is a function of scale. Moreover, I doubt that even scaling
quantum effects up by cooling them to near absolute zero would yield a practical human teleportation device.

It is not even a case of us doing it, we already have strong reason to believe that natural larger objects already exhibit quantum effects like the human brain, plants, a flock of birds and how they navigate.

Again why wouldn't they? They are actually really quantum.

The fact that we do not have the technology to perform human teleportation or human levitation is a technological problem not a theoretical problem in quantum physics. Theoretically a larger object could indeed teleport and levitate.

 

[Quiddity]

It's just probabilities. It accounts for much, but not all.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's just probabilities. It accounts for much, but not all.

We we see the much vaunted infinite improbability drive on the next spaceship?

 

[Surya Deva]

It's just probabilities. It accounts for much, but not all.

Absolutely and in quantum physics there is a probability for many things:

Walking through walls
A broken glass reforming back into a glass
Levitation
Teleportation

According to quantum physics none of these things are impossible, just highly improbable to happen. Improbable does not mean impossible.

 

[PolyHedral]

Haha, thank you for the mathematical equations and the comic commentary! However, you are assuming here quantum effects only happen at the atomic and subatomic scale, but we know for a fact that quantum effects happen at the macro scale too, in fact the actual real reality of any macro object is quantum and it can indeed be described by quantum physics.

I assumed nothing. I cited the equations, which apply to macroscopic objects just as much as they do to microscopic ones. That is why I quoted them. Just because they aren't noticeable at macroscopic scales doesn't mean they don't work there.

Notice, the actual scientist I cited in the levitation article, himself admitted the casimir force could be used to theoretically levitate larger objects such as a human, only that currently we don't have the technology to do it.

I suspect he didn't do the algebra. Also, it is theoretically possible for the mystic to levitate themselves. But only if they can be more precise than their own body's construction is.

If a macro object like a particle can teleport, then why can't a larger macro object like a body also teleport? To say a particle can, but a larger body cannot is an arbitrary assumption.

I didn't say that it can not. I said it will (probably) not - not on timescales smaller than the universe's lifespan.

You misinterpret. It does not mean converting the body literally into light energy(which in the Vedic equivalent is tejas particles) it means collapsing the body into the quantum(vedic equivalent is akasha) It describes it through the metaphor of "light as cotton" to denote a completely non physical object. It is indeed describing the quantum tunnelling of the human body.

One cannot collapse the body into a quantum. A quantum of what? How would you conserve charge? And baryon number? And angular momentum?

And not conserving those things makes you wrong. Sorry.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Science progresses through falsification of previous bad and unproven theories. So why the double standards now? Why are we refusing to accept that physical and objective reality has been falsified, when it clearly has, fair and square.

Actually, it has been accepted as falsified by many scientists and physicists who are growing in number now. Materialism has even been pronounced as dead already by physicists such as Goswami. The fact of the matter is future physics is going to be quantum physics. Materialists can pretend all they want that their previous objective and physical reality exists, that is not going to change the fact that the inferences we can draw from our experimental results clearly shows it doesn't.

And what's with all the suppression of mind-matter interactions we have found in the field of parapsychology? Why are materialists deliberately blinding themselves to all the parasychological, NDE and OBE research we have? Talk about fundamentalism!

So how are quantum mechanics not physical? As far as I know, it's all about physics.

NDE and OBE both have physical explanations, so there is no need for a supernatural explanation. Parapsychology is pseudoscience. There is no scientific evidence that suggests that the concepts we find in parapsychology are real as far as I know. If you can actually provide peer-reviewed scientific studies that support that things like telepathy and psychokinesis are real, then I will reconsider my stance.

 

[Kerr]

Absolutely and in quantum physics there is a probability for many things:

Walking through walls
A broken glass reforming back into a glass
Levitation
Teleportation

According to quantum physics none of these things are impossible, just highly improbable to happen. Improbable does not mean impossible.

That something is true at the quantom level doesnt make it true on the macro level.

 

[Surya Deva]

I suspect he didn't do the algebra. Also, it is theoretically possible for the mystic to levitate themselves. But only if they can be more precise than their own body's construction is.

The casimir force is generated by one particular way of using pressure between plates. However what is it being generated from? From the zero point energy field which is theoretically teeming with infinite energy. The zero point energy fluctuations generate the casimir force at the macroscale. Hence, if we can channel these virtual quantum forces we could theoretically cause them to lift a larger object.

The scientist obviously knows about this possibility, hence why he admits of it. I find it funny how materialists discredit scientists whenever they say something they don't like lol

One cannot collapse the body into a quantum. A quantum of what? How would you conserve charge? And baryon number? And angular momentum?

And not conserving those things makes you wrong. Sorry.

How do particles then routinely collapse themselves in the quantum and come out undamaged?

 

[PolyHedral]

The casimir force is generated by one particular way of using pressure between plates. However what is it being generated from? From the zero point energy field which is theoretically teeming with infinite energy.

Finite, bounded energy. Sorry.

The zero point energy fluctuations generate the casimir force at the macroscale. Hence, if we can channel these virtual quantum forces we could theoretically cause them to lift a larger object.

The vacuum energy content is static, and most likely a constant of the universe. Also, the equation I quoted above describes the Casimir force. There are no other mechanisms for it. For someone who insists that there is no separation between quantum and macro, you do seem to be rejecting the conclusions QM draws.

The scientist obviously knows about this possibility, hence why he admits of it. I find it funny how materialists discredit scientists whenever they say something they don't like lol

The scientist is probably correct. You merely misinterpreted "possible" as "feasible."

How do particles then routinely collapse themselves in the quantum and come out undamaged?

Quantum mechanical particles do not have size.

 

[Surya Deva]

That something is true at the quantom level doesnt make it true on the macro level.

Again there is no such thing as levels
I find it funny how so many people have just accepted this assumption of "levels"

There are no levels in the quantum. Everything really is a wavefunction. Nothing every ceases being a wavefunction. Quantum coherence continues onto macro objects, there is never a real "decoherence" or "collapse" Quantum physics applies to larger body as much as it applies to a subatomic particle.
Hence, why I said there is a possibility in quantum physics for you to go straight through a wall, only that it is extremely improbable. As for subatomic particles, it not just improbable, it happens all the time. Electrons are constantly jumping in and out of space through quantum tunneling. There is a probability you too could just fall out of space into the quantum, its just really improbable. However, through manipulation it could indeed become possible to make really improbable into probable and certain i.e., we could find a way to teleport you too.

 

[PolyHedral]

Again there is no such thing as levels
I find it funny how so many people have just accepted this assumption of "levels"

There are no levels in the quantum. Everything really is a wavefunction. Nothing every ceases being a wavefunction. Quantum coherence continues onto macro objects, there is never a real "decoherence" or "collapse" Quantum physics applies to larger body as much as it applies to a subatomic particle.
Hence, why I said there is a possibility in quantum physics for you to go straight through a wall, only that it is extremely improbable. As for subatomic particles, it not just improbable, it happens all the time. Electrons are constantly jumping in and out of space through quantum tunneling. There is a probability you too could just fall out of space into the quantum, its just really improbable. However, through manipulation it could indeed become possible to make really improbable into probable and certain i.e., we could find a way to teleport you too.

No, it is not possible to build an improbability drive under known physics. (As disappointing as that is.)

 

[Surya Deva]

We are actually on the verge of sending larger objects and humans through walls through quantum tunnelling:

If you've ever tried the experiment, you know you can't walk through a wall. But subatomic particles can pull off similar feats through a weird process called quantum tunneling. Now, a team of physicists says that it might just be possible to observe such tunneling with a larger, humanmade object, though others say the proposal faces major challenges.

If successful, the experiment would be a striking advance toward fashioning mechanical systems that behave quantum mechanically. In 2010, physicists took a key first step in that direction by coaxing a tiny object into states of motion that can be described only by quantum mechanics. Tunneling would be an even bigger achievement.​

Walk-Through-Wall Effect Might Be Possible With Humanmade Object, Physicists Predict - ScienceNOW

The actual possibility of quantum tunneling a human sized object is REAL. Therefore the actual act of a human walking through a wall is not physically impossible.

 

[PolyHedral]

We are actually on the verge of sending larger objects and humans through walls through quantum tunnelling:

If you've ever tried the experiment, you know you can't walk through a wall. But subatomic particles can pull off similar feats through a weird process called quantum tunneling. Now, a team of physicists says that it might just be possible to observe such tunneling with a larger, humanmade object, though others say the proposal faces major challenges.

If successful, the experiment would be a striking advance toward fashioning mechanical systems that behave quantum mechanically. In 2010, physicists took a key first step in that direction by coaxing a tiny object into states of motion that can be described only by quantum mechanics. Tunneling would be an even bigger achievement.​

Walk-Through-Wall Effect Might Be Possible With Humanmade Object, Physicists Predict - ScienceNOW

The actual possibility of quantum tunneling a human sized object is REAL. Therefore the actual act of a human walking through a wall is not physically impossible.

Since when were humans micrometers across and unthinkably cold?

Researchers would fashion the micrometer-wide trampoline out of graphene, a superstrong, superflexible sheet of carbon only one atom thick. [...] If researchers could lower the membrane's energy by cooling it to a temperature of less than a thousandth of a degree above absolute zero, then the only way it could get between the two positions is quantum tunneling.

 

[Surya Deva]

Since when was "micro-meters wide" "human-sized?"

Again, you are referencing here a technological problem. Just because we have only been able to quantumize an object that is micro-meters wide, only means that so far our technology is only advanced enough to do it with this size objects, but it definitely does not preclude the very real possibility we can do it with objects much larger. A lot of experimental evidence is now building up which shows that we can quantumize objects much much larger than subatomic particles.

More and more evidence is emerging that already many large scale natural objects are quantum.

The fact is these scientists are not at all denying the real possibility that human sized objects can be quantumized and then teleported and levitated, so why are you?

 

[PolyHedral]

Compare that grating-thing and a human.

The human is at least

• 1 million times larger.
• 10^12, if not 10^13 times heavier.
• 300,000 times hotter. (And thus 300k times more chaotic.)

All of these combined mean that a human, at a rough guess, is going to be 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 harder to quantum tunnel than their experiment.

You're basically claiming that, because we can launch a firework, the same principles will let us blow up Jupiter.

 

[Surya Deva]

Another article admitting the very real possibility of human teleportation through quantum tunneling:

Well, actually, something bigger can transport through Quantum Tunneling. Since Quantum Tunneling is based on probabilities, then the only thing preventing larger objects from tunneling from one place in the Universe to another is the very small probability that all the subatomic particles making up that object will to decide tunnel simultaneously to the same location, all at once. In other words, since I'm made entirely of subatomic particles, all of which are subject to the rules of quantum mechanics, there is a non-zero probability that I will spontaneously disappear and reappear somewhere else in the Universe. That probability, however, for all practical purposes, is zero. It would be like every single subatomic particle in my body getting lucky and winning the lottery all at the same time. It's possible, but it's just not very likely to happen.

So all we need to do is to figure out how to rig the quantum lottery.

The good news is that we are learning how to affect the outcomes of many quantum events. Amazingly, simply arranging things so that, for instance, a photon can be observed to take one path or another after passing through a splitter, we are able to affect the path the photon decides to take, or whether it decides to exhibit wave-like or particle-like properties. Other experiments have shown that we can similarly manipulate the outcome of tunneling events for many particles, particularly electrons. The ultimate goal, then, is to be able to command subatomic particles to tunnel at will. If we could do this, and if we could do this on a large enough scale, then we could command enough subatomic particles to transport objects, people, space ships, or even entire planets. All it takes is rigging the quantum lottery so that all the particles in the object we want to transport get lucky and win the lottery on a quantum level all at the same time.

So instead of killing yourself in a meat grinder only to have a copy of yourself assume your identity somewhere else, you would simply disappear and then reappear at a remote location. It doesn't get much better than that.​

Earl's Science Essay: How to Transport Matter Better Than They Do on TV, and Stuff


If we could find a technological way of quantumizing the entire human body, then the human body could be made to perform quantum acts like teleportation. This would involve making all of the atomic in the human body coherent and behaving together.
Now it makes sense why this would be possible by the mind, because the mind already coordinates the entire body as one single functional unit and maintains coherence. So if the mind were able to quantumize the body it would be able to maintain quantum coherence to teleport the body.

 

[Kerr]

Again there is no such thing as levels
I find it funny how so many people have just accepted this assumption of "levels"

There are no levels in the quantum. Everything really is a wavefunction. Nothing every ceases being a wavefunction. Quantum coherence continues onto macro objects, there is never a real "decoherence" or "collapse" Quantum physics applies to larger body as much as it applies to a subatomic particle.
Hence, why I said there is a possibility in quantum physics for you to go straight through a wall, only that it is extremely improbable. As for subatomic particles, it not just improbable, it happens all the time. Electrons are constantly jumping in and out of space through quantum tunneling. There is a probability you too could just fall out of space into the quantum, its just really improbable. However, through manipulation it could indeed become possible to make really improbable into probable and certain i.e., we could find a way to teleport you too.

If you prefer a different term, use it. But the fact is things doesnt behave the same way "up here" as "down there". Down there you can never say something will happen, only how likely it is to happen. Do you think the same applies to us?

EDIT:

A correction. Everything is a wavefunction and a particle. Not one or the other, but both. It possible its neither as well and a wave-particle duality is just the best way we can describe it at the moment.

About quantom tunneling, I am aware of it. But it doesnt change that there is a difference in how things behave here and on the quantom level.

 

[idav]

If we could find a technological way of quantumizing the entire human body, then the human body could be made to perform quantum acts like teleportation.

Technology can be viewed as miracles except for their naturalistic physical explanations. Far from a human being able to do it all from the mind.