Quebec moves to prohibit veiled women from receiving public services

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From today's Toronto Star:

MONTREAL–Quebec Premier Jean Charest and his cabinet have introduced sweeping legislation that effectively bars Muslim women from receiving or delivering public services while wearing a niqab.

According to the draft law, they would not be able to consult a doctor in a hospital, for example, or even attend classes in a university.

"Two words: Uncovered face," Charest told reporters during a press conference in Quebec City.

"The principle is clear."

However, Charest reaffirmed the right to wear other religious symbols, such as crosses, skullcaps or headscarves, which was met by some as evidence of hypocrisy and discrimination.

Some critics say the legislation could prevent women from integrating into Quebec society. "Mr. Charest is talking about welcoming people from different backgrounds and that this is going to unite us," said Shama Naz, a niqab-wearing woman who lives in the municipality of Kirkland on the island of Montreal.

"This is actually going to isolate people."

The 33-year-old mother of two young girls, a native of Pakistan, predicts women will be discouraged from going to a doctor, to school or work.

"It will isolate them from basic rights as human beings," said Naz.

Personally, I disagree with the move. There may be isolated cases where obscuring a person's face may cause a problem, but I think this law bans veils in circumstances where it can't be justified. IMO, the motivation for this law was simple dislike of the burqa and niqab, not any legitimate public policy concern.

Also, I think that Ms. Naz is correct in her assessment: this bill won't convince veiled women to remove their veils; it'll just push them out of mainstream society. I especially don't like the idea that people might be dissuaded from seeing their doctors.

What do you think?

 

[Sunstone]

I agree. This is a bad law.

 

[England my lionheart]

I agree its a bad law for obvious reasons especially health but to quote Shama Naz "This is actually going to isolate people." does'nt the Niqab do this anyway?

 

[Mister Emu]

I have a visceral dislike of it...

There are cases where I think it would be fair to require the facial portion of a niqab be removed for a time... when stopped by the police, whenever a photo ID is necessary or a tally of your presence is required(teacher taking roll, when you check into work)...

 

[Panda]

I don't think religious dress should receive any special treatment.

 

[IndieVisible]

I commend Quebec for following France's lead on this. Face veils is an obstruction to public safety and a stumbling block to identify people.

Practicing one's religion should be free and is but there should be some common sense limits and this is one of them.

 

[England my lionheart]

I agree,the face is an important communication tool,say for instance in a courtroom under examination and in regards to School Children what kind of effect does it have on them.

 

[linwood]

"It will isolate them from basic rights as human beings," said Naz.

The irony.

The entire purpose of Muslim head coverings is to isolate women.

I disagree with the law but this claim of isolation and failure of cultural integration are the tenants of Islam anyway.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree its a bad law for obvious reasons especially health but to quote Shama Naz "This is actually going to isolate people." does'nt the Niqab do this anyway?

Not to the same extent. If these women feel that they can't remove their veils, then this law would effectively cut them off from government services, which in Quebec includes health care and education.

Also, I wonder whether it also includes things like domestic violence shelters. The article didn't address them specifically, but they're public services.

I have a visceral dislike of it...

There are cases where I think it would be fair to require the facial portion of a niqab be removed for a time... when stopped by the police, whenever a photo ID is necessary or a tally of your presence is required(teacher taking roll, when you check into work)...

Right... but I don't think that it's needed when the woman is attending a university lecture, getting a job skills assessment, or standing in line at the Ministry of Transportation.

 

[England my lionheart]

This Guy was thrown out of a Government building in the UK,he took them to Court and won because he said he was a Jedi Knight, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1258365/Jedi-believer-wins-apology-Jobcentre-kicked-wearing-hood.html#ixzz0iMyMCMPG
__________________
Would allowing for one group to wear a face covering open up the door for others to exploit this rule ie Bank Robbers

 

[Alceste]

As much as I love Quebec and count many Francophone seperatists in my circle of friends, I found the provincial government to be extremely hostile to "foreigners" when I was there, including English-speaking Canadians. I can't say I'm surprised. They're pandering to some pretty deep cultural insecurities over there. I don't agree with it. People should be able to wear (or not wear) whatever the hell they want, wherever the hell they choose. Pressuring a woman to take off her niqab is no different from pressuring her to put it on. I will never understand how people don't see that. It's exactly the same - a violation of her personal freedom of choice and self-expression.

 

[England my lionheart]

If it was ok for Women to wear the Niqab,bearing in mind it isn't a religious requirement,would it be ok for a Man to wear this

 

[Alceste]

If it was ok for Women to wear the Niqab,bearing in mind it isn't a religious requirement,would it be ok for a Man to wear this

In Canada, that would not be unusual.

 

[IndieVisible]

Well I go to Canada a lot and the cold blistery weather is like that where I live too. I never seen any one wearing ski masks inside tho or at banks. Usually they take them off inside.

 

[YmirGF]

Quebec does enjoy special considerations as a "distinct society" within Canada. If they allow that society to be watered down they would necessarily have to kiss goodbye to that which makes them distinct. I don't see that happening.

Go, Quebec, eh!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Face veils is an obstruction to public safety and a stumbling block to identify people.

Few things obstruct public safety quite like xenophobia.

Parenthetically, I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of female terrorists did not and do not where the niqab. The argument against the veil is transparently ignorant and/or disingenuous.

 

[Alceste]

Quebec does enjoy special considerations as a "distinct society" within Canada. If they allow that society to be watered down they would necessarily have to kiss goodbye to that which makes them distinct. I don't see that happening.

Go, Quebec, eh!

Yeh - a lot of Quebecois seem to believe that. I've yet to hear any one of them give me a satisfactory explanation as to how having a Pakistani family living next door makes them less "Quebecois". Are they worried that if they let Pakistani women dress however they want, Quebecois women are going to suddenly decide it's "tres chic" to wear a bourqa?

Their concerns are ridiculous and the law is ridiculous. People of other cultural heritages do not pose any threat to ours. It's not as if minorities are culturally contagious. And if it's the "character of the community" they hope to preserve, well then they're just being racists. "Don't like your kind around here". That sort of thing.

 

[.lava]

The irony.

The entire purpose of Muslim head coverings is to isolate women.

I disagree with the law but this claim of isolation and failure of cultural integration are the tenants of Islam anyway.

would you dare to say i wear modest to be isolated? "the entire purpose"...you know nothing about my purpose..geez this is one thing that makes me go crazy, people telling why i and all the other Muslim women do things

.

 

[.lava]

If it was ok for Women to wear the Niqab,bearing in mind it isn't a religious requirement,would it be ok for a Man to wear this

this is what you compare Muslim women with? well, thank you. i see that you rather perceive Muslim women like a funny clown. you don't really have to respect our choices in life and you can keep on mocking religious stand of Muslims but please don't complaint when you are treated with the same manner

.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Quebec does enjoy special considerations as a "distinct society" within Canada. If they allow that society to be watered down they would necessarily have to kiss goodbye to that which makes them distinct. I don't see that happening.

OTOH, encouraging women not to mix with the rest of Quebecois society and instead stick to their homes or their small communities of ex-pats won't exactly encourage them to adopt their precious French language or teach it to their kids.