Quentin Tarantino's Star Trek

[Road Warrior]

The director is the one who directs the production and has final say. Theyre the one person who can potentially spin something more than the editors.

There are a lot of hands in the pie. The director obviously counts a lot but doesn't always have a say on casting. The actual movie editor can turn an average movie into a great one or vice versa. Directors may or may not have say in that part.

 

[Road Warrior]

Jar Jar Abrams got to butcher Star Trek before he was given the green light to take the knives to Star Wars and leave that a bloody carcass.

Why? How did Abrams butcher Star Trek? IIRC, you weren't even born when the ST OS was broadcast. I watched all of them as they were shown, the first year on a B&W 15 inch television. Same for when the first Star Wars came out. I saw it in the theater with college friends. Good stuff!

 

[Brickjectivity]

can bring fresh ideas to old material

I'm sure it will be a fun movie that I'll like if I get to see it.

a very competent director

Yes. He is notoriously competent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why? How did Abrams butcher Star Trek? IIRC, you weren't even born when the ST OS was broadcast. I watched all of them as they were shown, the first year on a B&W 15 inch television. Same for when the first Star Wars came out. I saw it in the theater with college friends. Good stuff!

I was around for TNG, and I have watched OS. Sgar Trek isnt dumbed down, made for the masses hollywood action rubbish. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" was a very serious thing, not a cheap throw away line. And I can, and have, watched interviews where Gene Roddenberry has discussed Star Trek, and how he describes it isnt at all what Abrams did with it.
And thats not even a valid criticism of my argument to begin with.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I was around for TNG, and I have watched OS. Sgar Trek isnt dumbed down, made for the masses hollywood action rubbish. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" was a very serious thing, not a cheap throw away line. And I can, and have, watched interviews where Gene Roddenberry has discussed Star Trek, and how he describes it isnt at all what Abrams did with it.
And thats not even a valid criticism of my argument to begin with.

You see this is exactly the vision that Tarantino says he wants for the film; that they all work together, that all the characters from OS are represented. He wants to expand on the vision of the OS.

"In all the films they’ve established it so much, that you need Uhura, you need a Scotty, you need Bones, you need all that stuff going on all the time — everybody has to be represented in some big story where they all have to deal. Where I actually think it could be cool — ’cause some of those episodes are fantastic, and the only thing that limited them was their sixties budget and eight days shooting schedule, and even having said that they did a magnificent job — but you could take some of the great, classic Star Trek episodes and just easily expand them to 90 minutes or more and really do some really amazing, amazing stuff.” - Quentin Tarantino

If he is like he said going to be faithful to the source material and utilize it, then I think he will be successful in producing a great Star Trek movie

 

[Road Warrior]

I was around for TNG, and I have watched OS. Sgar Trek isnt dumbed down, made for the masses hollywood action rubbish. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" was a very serious thing, not a cheap throw away line. And I can, and have, watched interviews where Gene Roddenberry has discussed Star Trek, and how he describes it isnt at all what Abrams did with it.
And thats not even a valid criticism of my argument to begin with.

While I agree with you that shooting for the higher bar is more notable and memorable, I'm not the one putting millions of dollars on the table betting the movie will be a hit. Movies are a for-profit business, like it or not. Same for television shows. Yes, again, I agree that I'd prefer something profound rather than just another popcorn movie but let's be honest; those popcorn movies are fun too. I liked Captain Marvel and the Avenger movies. FWIW, I liked both Kill Bill movies and have watched them on DVD several times.

I've read several interviews and articles about Roddenberry since the 1960s. I like the man and his vision. However let's not forget the reason Star Trek was canceled after 2 years was because it wasn't a commercial success. The only reason it got a third and final season, plus a move to late Friday night - a virtual death sentence, was because fans screamed at NBC to save the show. It took ten full years to make the first Star Trek movie and that was only made after the success of Star Wars and other SF movies like Close Encounters. It took another 3 years to make a second movie, Wrath of Khan (which was f'ing awesome!) and then it became so big it took a life of its own. My main point is that Star Trek wasn't an instant hit which became a national treasure. It literally took decades to take hold. Star Wars was an instant hit. The rivalry between Star Trek fans and Star Wars fans at the time was pure geekdom.

You are obviously free to believe as you wish just like I and anyone else is.

 

[Road Warrior]

You see this is exactly the vision that Tarantino says he wants for the film; that they all work together, that all the characters from OS are represented. He wants to expand on the vision of the OS.

"In all the films they’ve established it so much, that you need Uhura, you need a Scotty, you need Bones, you need all that stuff going on all the time — everybody has to be represented in some big story where they all have to deal. Where I actually think it could be cool — ’cause some of those episodes are fantastic, and the only thing that limited them was their sixties budget and eight days shooting schedule, and even having said that they did a magnificent job — but you could take some of the great, classic Star Trek episodes and just easily expand them to 90 minutes or more and really do some really amazing, amazing stuff.” - Quentin Tarantino

If he is like he said going to be faithful to the source material and utilize it, then I think he will be successful in producing a great Star Trek movie

He could do that. OTOH, he could take a side never seen before on television or film such as the viewpoint of the Klingons; their origin, their culture and their reactions when encountering the Federation.

I recall when Harlan Ellison, one of our great "speculative fiction" writers (and also a bit of a wacko. Yes, I met him and confirmed it.) wrote one of the greatest ST episodes ever: "The City on the Edge of Forever". In Ellison's version, McCoy not only goes mad but rapes a woman before diving into the past. There were a lot of other excesses too. The producers toned down his version, much to Ellison's ire, but the end result was a classic. I think the story was covered in one of the Star Trek history non-fiction books like David Gerrold's "The Trouble with Tribbles" the story behind the episode.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My main point is that Star Trek wasn't an instant hit which became a national treasure

I know. Over different issues, Star Trek wasnt a network favorite. But the fans transformed its legacy into something truly profound and far reaching. The network may have snubbed their nose at it, but his influence is so great that it can be argued were living in the age of science and technology that was strongly influenced by Roddenberry, perhaps even to a greater extent than Carl Sagan. The show may nkt have made much money, the little tablet-like devices however would go in to make millions decades later.

 

[Road Warrior]

I know. Over different issues, Star Trek wasnt a network favorite. But the fans transformed its legacy into something truly profound and far reaching. The network may have snubbed their nose at it, but his influence is so great that it can be argued were living in the age of science and technology that was strongly influenced by Roddenberry, perhaps even to a greater extent than Carl Sagan. The show may nkt have made much money, the little tablet-like devices however would go in to make millions decades later.

True, but it took over 20 years pushing 30 years. STNG met with criticism by the ST purists. It took several years for it to be accepted in its own right.

Only dweebs take fictional story writers over scientists.

Sagan had far greater impact on the intelligent people but Roddenberry certainly inspired millions. I use Roddenberry's Federation as an example when discussing Socialism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He could do that. OTOH, he could take a side never seen before on television or film such as the viewpoint of the Klingons; their origin, their culture and their reactions when encountering the Federation.

That would make for an interesting story. It'd be a Spartan meets Samurai type of show, but the Klingons have never really gotten to have their story told. They clearly aren't a cultural shroud of mystery, but they've never been allowed to do .ore than inch out of the shadows. And it's not like we have to pry into those genetic experiments that left some Klingons not looking like Klingons. And because I dint have the finesse and tact of Picard it looks like its starting a fight over it so theyll at least respect me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

True, but it took over 20 years pushing 30 years. STNG met with criticism by the ST purists. It took several years for it to be accepted in its own right.

Only dweebs take fictional story writers over scientists.

Sagan had far greater impact on the intelligent people but Roddenberry certainly inspired millions.

I'm not quite so sure. You can go through the list; scientists are very heavily, as a group, influenced by Star Trek.

 

[Road Warrior]

That would make for an interesting story. It'd be a Spartan meets Samurai type of show, but the Klingons have never really gotten to have their story told. They clearly aren't a cultural shroud of mystery, but they've never been allowed to do .ore than inch out of the shadows. And it's not like we have to pry into those genetic experiments that left some Klingons not looking like Klingons. And because I dint have the finesse and tact of Picard it looks like its starting a fight over it so theyll at least respect me.

Originally the Klingons were stand-ins for the Soviets. As the Soviet Union neared collapsed, so did the attitudes of ST writers which is why we got the great movie "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country" which came out, coincidentally enough, the same year as the fall of the Berlin War and the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Picard's STNG began when the cracks were showing in the "Evil Empire" and continued after the collapse of the USSR. Like STOS, the show reflected the times.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You see this is exactly the vision that Tarantino says he wants for the film; that they all work together, that all the characters from OS are represented. He wants to expand on the vision of the OS.

"In all the films they’ve established it so much, that you need Uhura, you need a Scotty, you need Bones, you need all that stuff going on all the time — everybody has to be represented in some big story where they all have to deal. Where I actually think it could be cool — ’cause some of those episodes are fantastic, and the only thing that limited them was their sixties budget and eight days shooting schedule, and even having said that they did a magnificent job — but you could take some of the great, classic Star Trek episodes and just easily expand them to 90 minutes or more and really do some really amazing, amazing stuff.” - Quentin Tarantino

If he is like he said going to be faithful to the source material and utilize it, then I think he will be successful in producing a great Star Trek movie

I love violent and gory entertainment. But thats pretty much all Tarantino does and thats just not Star Trek. I think he could do a better Alien movie than Star Trek. His flairs of sensless violence and showers of gore have no place. Its Star Trek, not a Rammstein video.

 

[Road Warrior]

I'm not quite so sure. You can go through the list; scientists are very heavily, as a group, influenced by Star Trek.

Agreed but I think it's silly to argue who had more influence. If I had to give an opinion, it'd be Sagan. OTOH, inspiration is a great thing.

This speech by Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson is one of the best I've ever seen in that vein:

Yes, it's 25 minutes long, but anyone who is participating in this thread is certain to appreciate it. Well worth the effort. 5 Likes of any posts they choose to anyone who honestly claims they aren't inspired by it.

 

[Road Warrior]

I love violent and gory entertainment. But thats pretty much all Tarantino does and thats just not Star Trek. I think he could do a better Alien movie than Star Trek. His flairs of sensless violence and showers of gore have no place. Its Star Trek, not a Rammstein video.

Yes, Tarantino is violent and gory but he also sends a message. Do you have any Tarantino movies you like? Any you strongly dislike? Kill Bill, Dusk to Dawn and The Hateful Eight were all great.

WARNING THIS CLIP IS NSFW. Tarantino's take on "Top Gun" in this movie clip is hilarious. I think it says something about his thinking:

The same scene in text: Sleep with Me (1994) - Quentin Tarantino as Sid - IMDb

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Originally the Klingons were stand-ins for the Soviets. As the Soviet Union neared collapsed, so did the attitudes of ST writers which is why we got the great movie "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country" which came out, coincidentally enough, the same year as the fall of the Berlin War and the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Picard's STNG began when the cracks were showing in the "Evil Empire" and continued after the collapse of the USSR. Like STOS, the show reflected the times.

Id has to argue it's very far ahead of the times. Most people it seems don't realize it, but the series even back in the 80s was very pro-LGBT. Not in name, of course, but Riker did fall in love with what we call a transwoman, and it was an outrage when she was surgically forced to live as she was assigned and expected to - the cast even felt the episode didn't go far enough and they wanted to push the issue further. Of course there are elements of the times, but there are also elements of times past. Where we've been, where we are, and where we're going. And now that replicators are just around the corner, with technology axing so many jobs, we may see 9our own "Bell Riots" before too much longer, and we achieve a post-money and post-poverty society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, Tarantino is violent and gory but he also sends a message. Do you have any Tarantino movies you like? Any you strongly dislike? Kill Bill, Dusk to Dawn and The Hateful Eight were all great.

WARNING THIS CLIP IS NSFW. Tarantino's take on "Top Gun" in this movie clip is hilarious. I think it says something about his thinking:

I can't say I've particularly liked his movies, but I don't dislike them, either. More like mindless fun to watch such gratuitous violence that is often sensless and has no real purpose other than being violent.

 

[Road Warrior]

Id has to argue it's very far ahead of the times. Most people it seems don't realize it, but the series even back in the 80s was very pro-LGBT. Not in name, of course, but Riker did fall in love with what we call a transwoman, and it was an outrage when she was surgically forced to live as she was assigned and expected to - the cast even felt the episode didn't go far enough and they wanted to push the issue further. Of course there are elements of the times, but there are also elements of times past. Where we've been, where we are, and where we're going. And now that replicators are just around the corner, with technology axing so many jobs, we may see 9our own "Bell Riots" before too much longer, and we achieve a post-money and post-poverty society.

You just nailed why ST was so great: it looked for the best in mankind.

 

[Road Warrior]

I can't say I've particularly liked his movies, but I don't dislike them, either. More like mindless fun to watch such gratuitous violence that is often sensless and has no real purpose other than being violent.

Human beings are a violent species. One of my favorite speeches by Kirk was from "A Taste of Armageddon":
The Premise:"On a mission to establish diplomatic relations at Star Cluster NGC321, Kirk and Spock beam down to planet Eminiar 7 to learn that its inhabitants have been at war with a neighboring planet for over 500 years. They can find no damage nor evidence of destruction but soon learn that their war is essentially a war game, where each planet attacks the other in a computer simulation with the tabulated victims voluntarily surrendering themselves for execution after the fact. When the Enterprise becomes a victim in the computer simulation and ordered destroyed, Kirk decides it's time to show them exactly what war means."

Kirk destroys their ability to kill people in accordance with their rules of war thus setting up the possibility of actual war.
Anan 7:You realise what you have done?

Captain James T. Kirk: Yes, I do. I've given you back the horrors of war. The Vendikans now assume that you've broken your agreement and that you're preparing to wage real war with real weapons. They'll want do the same. Only the next attack they launch will do a lot more than count up numbers in a computer. They'll destroy cities, devastate your planet. You of course will want to retaliate. If I were you, I'd start making bombs. Yes, Councilman, you have a real war on your hands. You can either wage it with real weapons, or you might consider an alternative. Put an end to it. Make peace.

Anan 7: There can be no peace. Don't you see? We've admitted it to ourselves. We're a killer species. It's instinctive. It's the same with you. Your General Order Twenty Four.

Captain James T. Kirk: All right. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today. Contact Vendikar. I think you'll find that they're just as terrified, appalled, horrified as you are, that they'll do anything to avoid the alternative I've given you. Peace or utter destruction. It's up to you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You just nailed why ST was so great: it looked for the best in mankind.

It did. Respect for others even when you don't agree or find things confusing and conflicting, that was great about the show because common ground and understanding was the goal to find the good and respect each other. And it really showed with the characters and cultures that are far more interested in and permissive with sex than our own culture.