Question about Homosexuality

[BruceDLimber]

[Part four of four]
Since 1947, the Baha'i International Community has had consultative status as a non-governmental organization with several agencies of the United Nations. We have seats on the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), UNICEF, WHO, UNIFEM (the women's development agency, and UNEP (the U.N. environmental program), and work closely with the U.N. Information Office. Baha'is have played major roles in various UN activities, such as the Earth Summit and the International Conference on Women.

In the past, ... spiritual teachings have been concerned primarily with individual actions--or with the harmony of relatively small groups of people. Moral concern has likewise focused mostly on individual behavior: do not steal; do not lie; love your neighbor.

Today, our understanding of spirituality must embrace not only personal and group life, but also the collective progress of humanity as a whole. Indeed, it is only because the human race has at last entered on its age of maturity that the age-old prophecies of an era of peace and justice can now be fulfilled.
from The Baha'is,
an overview published by the Baha'i International Community

From the Baha'i scriptures:

O SON OF MAN!
Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not, wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished, why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.
[The Hidden Words]


The above is just an overview. For more information, please visit:

www.bahai.org or www.usbnc.org or www.bahai.us
or www.info.bahai.org

To see our scriptures and related materials, including our Peace Statement, Prosperity Statement, Race Unity Statement, and Destiny of America Statement:
· www.ibiblio.org/Bahai (This site has includes a search engine.)
· www.bahai-library.org (Click "Baha'i Writings" for our scriptures.)
· www.reference.bahai.org (This site is multi-lingual.)
· www.bahaistudy.org (This also has videos and talking books.)

To use OCEAN, an online collection of the scriptures of many religions, with a searchable concordance:

www.BahaiResearch.com

There's an excellent group of informal discussion areas about the Baha'i Faith at:

www.planetbahai.org (click "Forums").

For information on how the Baha'i Faith has fulfilled prophecies:

http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled

To see an online video of the eight Baha'i temples (one per continent) around the world, including the still-under-construction Chile temple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2FQAQBI0fg

To enjoy Baha’i-oriented music:

www.RadioNur.com

To download and view other Baha'i videos:

http://www.us.bahai.org/media/index.html

You may often find "Baha'i Faith" listings in the White Pages of your phone book.

In the USA, you can also phone 1-800-22-UNITE for free information and literature, and—if you like—to find out where the nearest Baha'is are.

I hope this has been helpful and answered some of your questions.

And as always, further questions are most welcome!

Many regards!

Bruce

 

[applewuud]

To go back to the origination of this thread--a Baha'i group (a Local Spiritual Assembly, I assume) wanting to rent space in a Unitarian church--I'm surprised. Many years ago our church wanted to rent space to them, but after consulting with their national office, the Baha'is said they were discouraged from renting space from other religious institutions, lest there be some confusion as to their independence. They wound up renting space in the local elementary school. A friend of mine said they could rent from a church if there were no alternatives, however.

 

[kiwimac]

The Baha'i view on homosexuality is, IMO at least, quite wrong. It insists that homosexuals may not marry and then says that sex outside marriage is unacceptable which, of course, means life long celibacy for homosexual baha'is.

It is, IMO again, one more reason for asserting that the Baha'i faith is not a faith for the future of humankind but rather just more of the same old bad news that so many religions are.

 

[Bishka]

The Baha'i view on homosexuality is, IMO at least, quite wrong. It insists that homosexuals may not marry and then says that sex outside marriage is unacceptable which, of course, means life long celibacy for homosexual baha'is.

It is, IMO again, one more reason for asserting that the Baha'i faith is not a faith for the future of humankind but rather just more of the same old bad news that so many religions are.

This is the DIR Baha'i section, I would think a comment like that would better suit a debate or a discussion outside a DIR section.

 

[kiwimac]

Not at all, It is simply a comment. Now if anyone would like to discuss it further then perhaps it could be a debate topic but as it stands it is simply my opinion concerning a religion that I am well-informed on.

 

[James the Persian]

Not at all, It is simply a comment. Now if anyone would like to discuss it further then perhaps it could be a debate topic but as it stands it is simply my opinion concerning a religion that I am well-informed on.

But you are nopt permitted to post opposing opinions in another faith's DIR forum. Your comments would be acceptable elsewhere in the forum, but not here.

James

 

[Popeyesays]

Kiwi is an ex-Baha`i who has several issues with the faith. His concept that a law of the Aqdas can be questionable or modified is contrary to all the sacred writings of the faith is a poor argument.

Let's chase it all down:

"It is forbidden you to wed your fathers' wives. We
shrink, for very shame, from treating of the subject of
boys. Fear ye the Merciful, O peoples of the world!
Commit not that which is forbidden you in Our Holy
Tablet, and be not of those who rove distractedly in the
wilderness of their desires. 59 "
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 58)

"The word translated here as "boys" has, in this context, in
the Arabic original, the implication of paederasty. Shoghi
Effendi has interpreted this reference as a prohibition on all
homosexual relations.
The Bahá'í teachings on sexual morality centre on
marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole
structure of human society and are designed to protect and
strengthen that divine institution. Bahá'í law thus restricts
permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and
the woman to whom he is married.
In a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi it is
stated:
No matter how devoted and fine the love may be
between people of the same sex, to let it find expression
in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse.
Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá'u'lláh,
and homosexual relationships He looks upon as
such, besides being against nature. To be afflicted this
way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But
through the advice and help of doctors, through a strong
and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can
overcome this handicap."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 223)

"In the Gospel it is said that a man came to Christ and called Him "Good Master." Christ answered, "Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God."[1] This did not mean -- God forbid! -- that Christ was a sinner; but the intention was to teach submission, humility, meekness and modesty to the man to whom He spoke. These Holy Beings are lights, and light does not unite itself with darkness. They are life, and life and death are not confounded. They are for guidance, and guidance and error cannot be together. They are the essence of obedience, and obedience cannot exist with rebellion."
[1 Matt. 19:16, 17.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 170)

There have been two individuals in all existence who were authorized by Baha`u'llah to interpret His words: Abdu'l Baha, and Shoghi Effendi. No institution or individual has the power to amend, change, reconsider, alter, abrogate or deny those interpretations.

In the natural course of time another of "These Holy Beings" will come and He/She will have the authority to abrogate those commands. What that Manifestation has to say on the subject I certainly have no idea, neither does Kiwi.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Kiwi is an ex-Baha`i

Ah, I understand. I'm an ex-Southern Baptist and I sometimes cast an extra critical eye towards them. Yet they still pray for me, even though they believe me and all my friends are going straight to hell. At least I know I'll have plenty of company.

I'm looking forward to attending the workshops the Baha'i are going to give in our church and thanks again for all the info.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi again!

I'm looking forward to attending the workshops the Baha'i are going to give in our church and thanks again for all the info.

(As I'd mentioned, the correct plural is simply Baha'is <not Baha'i>.)

Glad to hear you're interested!

You may want to ask them if they're going to be holding Ruhi classes. (This is a standardized series of deepenings <study classes> used by Baha'is the world around.) You'd be most welcome to attend these and might find them especially interesting!

Best,

Bruce

 

[Mind_Zenith]

Hey Man
I'm sorry to dredge up an old thread (I found it while skimming the baha'i forum pages) but I think my viewpoint, and the viewpoint of my group, should be expressed.

The group that I am a member of (that I still remain a member of as I traverse Nichiren Buddhism) is known as the Tarbiyat Baha'i Community, known as the Regency Baha'is in academic circles. I won't go too much into it, but basically we believe there to be no proper Guardian at the moment (similar to the "occultation" of the Imaam). I won't post our site here, but a google search should do the trick.

Anyway, we have more or less progressed with the times. The sciences of psychology as meant that we now see homosexuality as a valid sexual expression. I personally believe that we need a guardian to rule on the subject of homosexuality, and that what the last guardian said does not apply in light of modern science. So, we believe one can have a monogamous, loving relationship with another individual of the same sex, and still be a Baha'i.

I don't speak for everyone, and my idea on the last guardian definately isn't shared with everyone. However, I can say that the people in my group all accept homosexuals, who are monogamous.

I hope this helps. If anyone has any questions about my group or whatever, please ask away, in personal email or on this thread.

Peace!

 

[arthra]

Welcome mind zenith to the Forum.

You may be aware that this is not a debate forum there are venues for that here at Interfaith Forums.

As to your post:

Anyway, we have more or less progressed with the times. The sciences of psychology as meant that we now see homosexuality as a valid sexual expression. I personally believe that we need a guardian to rule on the subject of homosexuality, and that what the last guardian said does not apply in light of modern science. So, we believe one can have a monogamous, loving relationship with another individual of the same sex, and still be a Baha'i.

For us Baha'is the only authority or you could say the supreme authority for us is the Kitab-i-Aqdas and the interpretation of Abdul-Baha... No Guardian who ever they are or claim to be can change the Most Holy Book or differ with the interpretation of Abdul-Baha..

See:

http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=compilation_reini_homosexuality

- Art

 

[Mind_Zenith]

Hi Art,
I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm simply stating my view, which seems to be in conflict with the views of some other Baha'i. That's all. I'm not trying to start an argument or a debate. I thought it would be pertinent information for the individual and other Baha'i to know my view.

Now, if you did not desire a debate, you would not have tried deterred my point with your post of the paper on homosexuality and the UHJ's standpoint on it. I respectfully disagree with your standpoint, and I do not believe that homosexuality is forbidden by the Kitaab-i-Aqdas. This is simply my opinion, based on study and on what the Council of Regents (the Tarbiyat Baha'i Community's 'leaders' or 'guiders') has mentioned on this.

You may believe what you wish to believe, Art. I simply believe differently, and I expressed so.

I hope this clear things up. Just to make crystal: this is not a post to start a debate, simply a hope to clear things up; and neither was my previous one, which was an expression of my belief (which I--silly me!--thought might be of use or interest to the poster of this thread or other Baha'i concerned on the issue).

Peace
-Zenith

 

[arthra]

Zenith,

The only authoritative interpretations of the Kitab-i-Aqdas are those of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.. not your interpretation or mine.. so for Baha'is at least I think the issue of same sex marriage has been resolved .. it's simply not recognized.

- Art

 

[Mind_Zenith]

That's quite the point I'm trying to get at, my friend. My group is different from your group in how we look on things like this. I'll leave this topic off-forum, art, as we're wondering from the actual thread topic. If you have any questions or would like to discuss this topic, please feel free to PM me. Unfortunately, my english isn't that good, so please bare with me if you decide to.

Peace!