Question about Noah's ark

[JoshuaTree]

Actually I have. A local flood clearly is not what the story claims in Genesis. A local flood makes the story pointless. No need to gather up animals. It would not kill off mankind. You appear to want to limit it to the Nephelim but you cannot explain why they would not simple leave for high ground.

So what kept the the sons of God from breeding with the daughters of men after the flood?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So what kept the the sons of God from breeding with the daughters of men after the flood?

The story contradicts itself so one can make up any explanation that one wants. One is just as good as another. It is simply a myth that never happened.

 

[JoshuaTree]

I disagree. The Nephilim were a small group of beings in a very specific area. A devastating localized flood easily suffices.

It makes perfect sense imo. He only gathered breeding pairs of local wildlife to prevent their extinction. This means less animals than most people would think, and more room for food storage for the animals.

The flood was never intended to kill of the all of mankind. It was only intended to kill off the Nephilim and a handful of humans that brought about the Nephilim.


As for why they did not head to higher ground question.

How would the Nephilim know to head to higher ground in time?

They couldn't have known to head to higher ground in time to avoid it. Travel was measured in days or weeks in that time.
They would have needed notice several weeks if not months ahead of time to head to higher ground, before the flood hit. Especially considering they would have had to hike up a deadly mountain range like in Ararat. Keep in mind it was not successfully peaked until 1829 which is fairly recent in history. Thats how tough it is to traverse that mountain range.

I would have thought the nephilim would have become suspicious somewhere in the 120 years Noah was building the ark. Surely people talked about the ark and word got around about the flood that was coming.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There's no point in worrying over the question since the whole affair never happened. Noah and the global flood is a myth, not literal history. It's not meant to be read as literal history, it's a moral narrative. It's like how Job never existed; it's a poem pondering the meaning of suffering.

 

[JoshuaTree]

You think they believed a crazy old man who said God told him a flood was coming?

Would you believe him today?

Nephilim were demigods, I'd think they better than anyone would take God seriously.

 

[JoshuaTree]

There's no point in worrying over the question since the whole affair never happened. Noah and the global flood is a myth, not literal history. It's not meant to be read as literal history, it's a moral narrative. It's like how Job never existed; it's a poem pondering the meaning of suffering.

So the point of the flood myth was that... God is in control?

 

[JoshuaTree]

If that were true they would have known better than to challenge God in the first place eh?

Which calls into question how the unholy union of heaven and earth happened in the first place.

 

[Enoch07]

Which calls into question how the unholy union of heaven and earth happened in the first place.

Indeed

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So the point of the flood myth was that... God is in control?

I think it's more about human yearnings for justice against perceived corruption, interpreting local floods through a superstitious lense and so forth.

 

[Truthseeker]

Did Noah rescue polar bears and animals not native to the middle East? How did he feed all these animals? It's far fetched enough to think he had a boat that could fit them all... to feed them all would be even more Impossible!

The story of Noah's Ark is just a story. It didn't really happen literally. It has symbolical significance. Noah was a Prophet and those who didn't believe in Him drowned in a spiritual way. All the different animals symbolizes all of the different kinds of men. This is just my opinion, it isn't taught by the Baha'i Faith. Some of it is, but some of it I interpreted myself, like the part about the animals.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A theocracy that lasts only a thousand years isn't permanent..................

Please note it is "Jesus' rule" , as King of God's Kingdom, that lasts one-thousand years.
So, Jesus' 1,000-year rule is what is Not permanent. God's theocratic kingdom government is: permanent.
At 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 at the end of Jesus' reign over Earth, then Jesus hands back God's Kingdom to his God.
In other words, the thousand years serves the purpose of resurrection and people gaining human perfection as Adam originally had before his downfall. After the 1,000 years are up we won't need that service any more.
Those alive on Earth at that time have gained everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical permanent Earth forever.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Which calls into question how the unholy union of heaven and earth happened in the first place.

Before God created visible material realm of existence, first God created the invisible world for spirit life (angels).
Then, God expanded his creation business to include our material / physical realm of existence.
I find that was Not an 'un-holy' endeavor but "Very Good" - Genesis 1:10,18,21,25,31
What was 'un-holy' was it was Not natural, Not normal, Not God's purpose for angels to mix with humans.
Angelic Satan wants humans to worship him, so he worked on humans Adam and Eve to accomplish his end.
The angelic demons who followed Satan they materialized in human bodies so as to mix with earth's women.
In other words, what those rebellious heavenly ' sons of God ' did is what is 'un-holy' and perverted.

 

[Enoch07]

More evidence to support my claim of heavy fog could have caused low visibility for months after the flood. Keep in mind Ararat is a volcano.

Dangers/Problems | Search for Noah's Ark

Weather

Fog is created by the venting of hot gases from the mountain to the cool mountain air. This fog often starts out as a small wisp and grows to cover large areas of the mountain. As the fog envelops climbers, it is best to stop moving for fear of falling over a precipice, into a crevasse or through thin ice which may be hiding a fissure in the glacier.

Unexpected rainstorms can cause flash floods and devastate unexpecting climbers.

This is a known fact that when even without extreme weather conditions the mount Ararat region is known for it's dense fog created by the venting of hot gases into the cool mountain air. Combined with lake effect fog which is known to be in combination with other types of fog.

Advection fog occurs when moist air passes over a cool surface by advection (wind) and is cooled.[19] It is common as a warm frontpasses over an area with significant snow-pack. It is most common at sea when moist air encounters cooler waters, including areas of cold water upwelling.

And/Or:

Evaporation fog or steam fog forms over bodies of water overlain by much colder air; this situation can also lead to steam devilsforming. Lake effect fog is of this type, sometimes in combination with other causes like radiation fog. It tends to differ from most advective fog formed over land in that it is, like lake-effect snow, a convective phenomenon, resulting in fog which can be quite a bit denser, deeper, and looks fluffy from above. Most other fog is stratiform; steam devils, which look like their dust counterparts, are often seen in this situation.

And/Or:

Upslope fog forms when moist air is going up the slope of a mountain or hill which condenses into fog on account of adiabatic cooling, and to a lesser extent the drop in pressure with altitude.

That being said, it is possible with extreme weather (the flood) to create fog that could last for a very long time. It would have to be be a once in a millennia type storm which is supportable by the claim of 40 days of constant rain. Like this: Colorado's Flood Was Once-In-A-Millennia Event

Scientifically speaking Noah's flood was possible as a heavy localized flood.

Here is a topographical map of Turkey. As further supporting evidence.

The Ararat mountain range is in the area of the the Turkey/Armenian border. Note how many lakes (typically low laying areas, known as basins) are in the general vicinity. A localized flood is very possible in that area.

 

[Aldrnari]

I can see that you are at point zero where it comes to the Bible. I am not interested in taking you through a 20 year course on this. Some questions are OK, but a big involvement is not what I want to get into.

Sorry for the late reply. Between the heavy work week, and dentists drilling around in my mouth, I haven't felt like doing much more than vegging out when I get the rare chance.

Interesting you would come to that conclusion. I grew up with very scripture heavy southern baptist home schooling, and a life long serious involvement in Christianity. I've read the bible through- some books many times (the ones I enjoyed most). Much of my life has been rather bible centric.

It's true that the questions I ask (or points I make) are the most basic (yet, most difficult, it seems), but there's a reason I have for that. Whenever I had asked them in the past, I was always referred to something else (a book, or a sermon, or another passage in the bible that was so vague that it could mean anything), but no one would ever give me THEIR reason- what was so compelling for them. No one would ever talk one on one with me about those simple questions (not even in a bible study setting), so I honestly have gotten to the point where I've lost interest in anything less than in depth discussion.

That said, I've come to realise that such a thing is impossible not only for others, but for myself (what with all of our time constraints). I don't expect you to write a tome for me to read through, and I hardly think I'd have the time or energy for a truly introspective (and well thought) reply. Still, thank you for posting this. I will go into it as much as I can.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil had little to do with knowledge. The point about it was the right of man to determine for himself what was good and evil. It was about obedience and rulership. Did Adam recognize the need to obey God in all things, or did he think that he could determine for himself (self rule) what was good for him and what was evil. In other words, did Adam want to obey God's theocracy.

Aye, a test. Still, god knew what man would choose, so since he already knew, the whole enactment was for god to prove a point to man, it would seem.

Still, it seems odd that god would punish man so heavily for something he knew that they would do. Seems a little to me like putting a cake on the floor and lacing it with rat poison to teach your dog a lesson, but it seems even worse since their (a&e's) children's children (up until modern day and beyond) were punished as well. We (people in general) don't punish the children for the crimes of their fathers because it is unjust. I wonder why a "just" god would.

When the being that became satan (meaning: adversary 'to God obviously') rebelled against God and got A&E to disobey, they chose his rule, do what you want rule.

In some christian contexts, yes. In Judaism (as far as I know), Satan is a completely different character when compared. Not only that, but the serpent was never directly shown to be Satan in the bible (from what I remember)- it was always a conclusion drawn by Christians based on vague verses that never directly stated such.

By the way, why would god punish all serpents to crawl on their bellies and eat dust if Satan was either just tricking a&e via serpent illusion, or by possessing a serpent. Snakes had nothing to do with the actions of Satan that day...

Satan never challenged the power of God. He challenged the right of God to rule man, the need of God to rule man.

Need? I'm not seeing the evidence for that in the world, honestly...

Since this was a question not of power, but of legalities, of what is just and right, the issue was a legal heavenly one.

Wait, it's a question of legalities?! These are god's rules! He could have made them whatever he wanted- had been as harsh or lenient as possible. Instead, he made a rule that he knew a&e would break without wasting much time, and then he cursed them and their descendants forever (until the day of judgement) for doing it! Not very reasonable...

In legal issues, you don't go blasting your opponent to pieces in a physical war, you go to court. In such a court evidence is presented and after the court is adjourned, a judgment is handed down. Since satan never challenged God's power, but only his legal right to rule man who was in God's image, God did not kill him. Instead, time was allotted to solve the court challenge.

What?... Why?

Again, these are god's rules. He made them this way- but you say he made them in such a way where his right to rule could be challenged? What? There's none of this in the bible...

This is the first time I've heard the "legal" approach for why god does these things, and it's really not making any sense. Why would god make an obvious loophole in his own laws that Satan would exploit which would alter all of existence up until present day? What was god's original plans to begin with, since the world has so drastically gone off the rails under Satan's rule?

For this reason, satan was also allowed what he needed to prove his point in this challenge to God. This is why he is called the ruler of this world. He is being permitted the time to prove that his rule, the rule of mankind according to their likes and dislikes, the personal choosing of what is good and evil, is going to benefit mankind, or not.

Why did god make the rules in such a way that everything he made, all of the plans he had, could be held hostage by some schmuck who disagreed? This doesn't seem like an effective way to rule, and it must not be, considering the fact that Satan has the keys...

Curious, but if we are now in a world run by Satan, and he can do whatever he wants- why has he not just revealed himself directly (much like god chooses not to)?

The issue has only been put to rest in our times of high tech. Even with our modern science, we are driving the earth into destruction, destroying the habitats and ecosystems, threatening to destroy all things with atomic warfare, with pollution, etc. And, we surely have proven ourselves incapable of handling our social problems, of assisting places, nations, on earth that suffer from famine, etc.

Errrr....

Would you really want to give up modern medicine? Your car and phone? Want to go back to tribal life when people killed each other all the time for stupid little things?

Its true that human history is a bumpy ride, but it's progressively getting better, and in recent years has skyrocketed in quality of life.

Clean water and basic medical care (such as vaccines, which save countless lives) are more available than they ever have been, wars are at an all time low, and with the crazy progress (and implementation) renewable energy has been making, things are only going to get more clean.

Ultimately, the only thing these answers serve to do is to raise more questions for me. Reminds me of when I was a christian, and was struggling to make all these things match up to reality. It's a bit like building a foundation on sand, and when part of it erodes away, placing a temporary post to keep the foundation from collapsing. Eventually the only thing holding up that foundation are posts that constantly need to be replaced when they become damaged and useless. In retrospect, I was more than a little dishonest with myself...

As for the video, it is a conspiracy theory video by some guy on youtube. It holds as much validity with me as flat earth theory and lizard people from space (so, not much).

As I was saying before, I don't expect for you to reply with much of anything since I can see this turning into a time sync. I've cut my losses and moved on from christianity long ago, so I'm not sure what else could be said to convince me otherwise without some kind of irrefutable evidence. Thanks for taking the time to reply, though!

 

[metis]

Geologists generally agree that the highest flood level during the warmest of spells was on;y about 300 foot above current levels. There is 0 evidence that all land masses were ever completely covered.

 

[SalixIncendium]

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