Question About Prayer

[VoidCat]

Now let me be clear...this is mostly directed towards Abrahamics but anyone is welcomed to answer...if you arent an abrahamics and worship many gods replace God with gods...If I were to pray to your God and I don't follow your religion how would your God feel about that? Would he listen or would he be offended? Would his feelings change depending on what religion I do follow? Example: say I was at a friend's house. They ask me to bless the food. They all are of an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity...I do not worship the Christian God. I don't want to make a scene by praying to a pagan deity. So I pray to the Christian God. Would the Christian God be offended that I a pagan who worships many gods prayed to him? Would he feel differently if I was an atheist? Just something I thought about and got curious.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I look at it this way...

As a father, it's my role to provide help advice to my daughter when she petitions it. Would I be offended if a friend of hers petitioned help or advice even though I'm not her father? Probably not. I would be happy to give it, and appreciate her friend affording me such an honor.

I don't see why any god wouldn't extend a similar courtesy and share in such appreciation.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

Hey @RayofLight

Would the Christian God be offended that I a pagan who worships many gods prayed to him? Would he feel differently if I was an atheist?

I'm guessing you have been in this situation recently? . Here is my answer, which will be from a Christian's perspective.

First of all, I believe that the Creator doesn't listen to even some believers prayers. Depending on the state of their heart, they might pray and pray but not reach His throne. The Creator deals with His people in honesty and wants complete honesty back - in our words, deeds and motives. There are instances in the Bible where God explains that He will not pay heed to the prayers of Israel if their heart is not right before Him.

Therefore, if you, a pagan, were to put on a show for your Christian friends and pray towards Him, I wouldn't expect that your prayer would avail much I'm afraid. However, this matter might be a little more involved than a yes or no. I foresee 3 potential outcomes

1. You pray boldly and act pompous/pious and speak many words in your prayer: I would be concerned that this might backfire on you on Judgement Day. Now, I realise you don't believe in Judgement Day but IF, just IF, you are wrong and God is real, then you'd have to give account for your words. Therefore, let your words in this "prayer of necessity" be few, just in case you are wrong

2. You pray respectfully and honourably: This may catch the attention of the Creator, even if you are uncertain of His realness but your words and heart are open, respectful and honest. You might just find that He would turn His attention to you in general even after this prayer. Although I guess this one isn't an option if you are solidly a pagan in your heart.

3. You pray either way above or another way: The Creator may not turn His ear to you at all, as I first mentioned. If He knows you don't recognise, acknowledge or respect Him - why should He give His ear to your ceremonial prayer.

So I guess in summary I could say: Don't expect an listening ear, but be careful with your words lest you have to answer for them.

I hope that helps.

 

[PureX]

Now let me be clear...this is mostly directed towards Abrahamics but anyone is welcomed to answer...if you arent an abrahamics and worship many gods replace God with gods...If I were to pray to your God and I don't follow your religion how would your God feel about that? Would he listen or would he be offended? Would his feelings change depending on what religion I do follow? Example: say I was at a friend's house. They ask me to bless the food. They all are of an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity...I do not worship the Christian God. I don't want to make a scene by praying to a pagan deity. So I pray to the Christian God. Would the Christian God be offended that I a pagan who worships many gods prayed to him? Would he feel differently if I was an atheist? Just something I thought about and got curious.

Prayer is not for or about 'the gods'. It's for and about us. We humans pray for lots of reasons, and depending on how reasonable the prayers are, we gain from it, accordingly. If I pray for peace in my heart, the simple act of praying (clarifying, verbalizing, and focusing on it) may very well bring peace to my heart. If I pray to win the lottery, the result will likely not be so forthcoming. We pray for strength, for forgiveness, for wisdom, for courage, for reprieve, for selflessness, and for a great many other things. And because we pray, we often find ourselves a little bit closer to those goals. But it really depends on us, not the gods we're praying to.

So I think your questions are misplaced. The prayers aren't for or about the gods. The gods simply give is an ideological object to pray to, and a reason to hope for a resolution. The rest is up to us,

 

[pearl]

I don't want to make a scene by praying to a pagan deity. So I pray to the Christian God.

Since it would not be prayer from the heart I think its moot, offered to a generic God. If we believe there is but one God, it not a Christian God, but the God of Israel.

 

[VoidCat]

I'm guessing you have been in this situation recently?

A similar situation. But I chose not to pray to the Christian God as I felt it would be rude. Instead I prayed to Loki and told everyone else if they wanted to pray to a different god they could.
@Tzephanyahu if I were to pray to the christian God I wouldn't be rude about it...I would be honest about not being sure he exists and about being a pagan. I don't believe in disrespecting any deity by not being honest with them.
But the situation had me curious about how other people view their gods and how their god or gods would respond if a nonbelievers prayed to said deity or deities.

 

[Vinayaka]

Now let me be clear...this is mostly directed towards Abrahamics but anyone is welcomed to answer...if you arent an abrahamics and worship many gods replace God with gods...If I were to pray to your God and I don't follow your religion how would your God feel about that? Would he listen or would he be offended? Would his feelings change depending on what religion I do follow? Example: say I was at a friend's house. They ask me to bless the food. They all are of an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity...I do not worship the Christian God. I don't want to make a scene by praying to a pagan deity. So I pray to the Christian God. Would the Christian God be offended that I a pagan who worships many gods prayed to him? Would he feel differently if I was an atheist? Just something I thought about and got curious.

Good question. In interfaith dinners I hosted, we'd allow for a couple of food blessings. That worked the couple of times I did it.
In my faith, or rather particular Hindu sampradaya, God would recognise that you're of a different religion, and choose not to interfere. There is no need to be causing confusion. It's not actually God that answers the prayers, but His devonic helpers.
However, once you're initiated into the sampradaya, that's another matter altogether. In that case, you've been assigned devonic helpers who are familiar with your karmas, your desires, your spiritual needs, etc. In short, there is a whole lot going on that most people are totally oblivious to.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

@Tzephanyahu if I were to pray to the christian God I wouldn't be rude about it...I would be honest about not being sure he exists and about being a pagan. I don't believe in disrespecting any deity by not being honest with them.

I see. It's good you would remain respectful.

May I ask a "technical question" about your faith and what you said?

I chose not to pray to the Christian God as I felt it would be rude.

Would the Christian God be offended

Now, I don't wish to catch you in your words or anything, I'm just genuinely interested in your thoughts on this matter...

You recognise the existence of a deity you call the "Christian God", not wanting to be rude to or offend Him. This Christian God (YHWH) says He is the only one and there is no other god. But (as I understand it) Loki doesn't say this, but rather he fits into a structure of many as his story is entwined into other deities. So if YHWH says that there is no structure that He fits into, but rather He is above all and created all, in your opinion - is He just factually incorrect or lying?

 

[VoidCat]

I see. It's good you would remain respectful.

May I ask a "technical question" about your faith and what you said?



Now, I don't wish to catch you in your words or anything, I'm just genuinely interested in your thoughts on this matter...

You recognise the existence of a deity you call the "Christian God", not wanting to be rude to or offend Him. This Christian God (YHWH) says He is the only one and there is no other god. But (as I understand it) Loki doesn't say this, but rather he fits into a structure of many as his story is entwined into other deities. So if YHWH says that there is no structure that He fits into, but rather He is above all and created all, in your opinion - is He just factually incorrect or lying?

I don't know what I believe in regards to the Christian God. I doubt he exists

 

[Tzephanyahu]

I don't know what I believe in regards to the Christian God. I doubt he exists

Fair enough. It was just a partly hypothetical question really.

So it that case, may I ask why you doubt that specific deity exists compared to Loki who you prayed to on that occasion? No worries if you want to leave the conversation here. Just wondering.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I sum up my opinion thus: When you make a request you are praying to a god lowercase g. When you align yourself with what is and improve yourself rather than make requests this is praying to God.

What follows is some explanation.

Now let me be clear...this is mostly directed towards Abrahamics but anyone is welcomed to answer...if you arent an abrahamics and worship many gods replace God with gods...If I were to pray to your God and I don't follow your religion how would your God feel about that?

Mystically speaking it would be redundant if you prayed to yours and then to God, since God means 'Theos' or the essence of divinity. Within monotheism there are people who think there are facets of God and people who don't. It is the kind of thing you have to decide. Strict monotheism considers your request to be ignorant of the nature of God and denies other gods exist, because it is strict.

What I think personally is that requests to gods make more sense than requests to God, but who really are you requesting from if God is in fact omnipresent and omnipotent?

Would he listen or would he be offended?

The original idea of God has been enriched with philosophical debate and formalism. In the West it has been determined by this method that a monotheistic God must be theoretically beyond time, beyond the physical world, encompassing all, all existing within God with God not limited to that. It is spoken like this: "God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and transcendent." For that reason many in India associate the western idea of God with their Brahman concept; but they have variations in which there are gods within Brahman but also simultaneously part of Brahman. Not many strict monotheists exist compared to partial monotheists. I think if God listens to prayers it must be considered partial monotheism. A strict monotheism would require that prayer be more of a meditation and aligning ones self with God rather than trying to change God.


Would God listen? I think God would just know what you said without having to listen, as well as what you were thinking and might have thought if any of a number of things happened. Would God be moved or changed in any way by it? That is uncertain. Some people say yes. Other people say no. The prayer could change something in the past as easily as changing something in the present or future. It would be all the same to God. You could pray never to have existed. You may as well pray for the poor dinosaurs who died millions of years ago as to pray for something alive today. It is like we are all God's dream or something like that, such is the implication of "Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and transcendent."

xample: say I was at a friend's house. They ask me to bless the food. They all are of an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity...I do not worship the Christian God. I don't want to make a scene by praying to a pagan deity. So I pray to the Christian God. Would the Christian God be offended that I a pagan who worships many gods prayed to him? Would he feel differently if I was an atheist? Just something I thought about and got curious.

In my opinion, no. What would matter was how you treated your friends not what you said to God.

Chickens are somewhat less sentient than us, so we eat chickens. God is infinitely more sentient than we are. How important can we be to an infinitely intelligent being? Would you want a mean ol' stupid rooster wandering around as you slept? How would an infinitely sentient being care for your presence, then? Where I think humanity interacts with God is in the moral choices we make, and that is probably the only way to do so being otherwise irrelevant to God's existence, to God's thought.

 

[VoidCat]

Fair enough. It was just a partly hypothetical question really.

So it that case, may I ask why you doubt that specific deity exists compared to Loki who you prayed to on that occasion? No worries if you want to leave the conversation here. Just wondering.

Id rather leave it here thanks.

 

[Windwalker]

So if YHWH says that there is no structure that He fits into, but rather He is above all and created all, in your opinion - is He just factually incorrect or lying?

A third alternative might be that that is a theological conclusion of some in the Christian faith, and there are other ways to understand God. In which case, the person might simply understand the nature of God differently, and that would be considered spiritually acceptable. In that case then, if that is what their own conscious tells them about God is true, and they are true to that, then God honors that. This of course, is supported scripturally in several places, but this one is pretty clear here,

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord...

I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean...

~Romans 14
​

This reminds me in tone of what Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9:26, "If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit a water, I will accept it." In other words, if you are sincere, if you believe truly in your heart, no matter how humble that request is, God will hear it. Compare this with the pagan Roman centurion, whom Jesus healed his daughter, and stated that it was his simple and pure faith that moved him. "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith!" Mt. 8:10. Apparently "correct belief" is only important to some believers, not all believers, and most certainly not important God.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

Hi @Windwalker

A third alternative might be that that is a theological conclusion of some in the Christian faith, and there are other ways to understand God. In which case, the person might simply understand the nature of God differently, and that would be considered spiritually acceptable.

I understand what you're saying. If one wants to understand God this way or that way, it's their choice and much damage has been done with theology. However, I brought this up because the term "Christian God" was used, rather than just "God".

Therefore, working with that premise that the "Christian God" is the one as described in the Christian Holy Bible, then the concept of my question remains - as His words are recorded therein. But yes, if just a loose term of "god" was used to describe some principal deity, then the question can't really be posed, as such a being is without a defined identity that we can discuss.

Thanks for replying.

 

[Windwalker]

Hi @Windwalker

I understand what you're saying. If one wants to understand God this way or that way, it's their choice and much damage has been done with theology. However, I brought this up because the term "Christian God" was used, rather than just "God".

But the Christian perspective of God varies widely too. My perspective of God, through a Christian lens, allows for all other perspectives of God as well. This is supported by Paul's injunction to the Christian church to recognize that one person's ideas of God, versus another person's ideas of God, are only important to the one believing them. What matters is if you are sincere before God with them.

So in my view God is the Christian God, not the other way around. The "Christian God", is a perspective of God. It is not a definition of God, nor can be, because there is no one single perception of God by all Christians, for one thing. To some God cares about worshipping on the right days. To others in the body of Christ, God accepts all people of faith from all religions. "Let each be fully convinced by their own minds." So in my view, the "Christian God" is a spectrum of views, just as Paul talked to Roman church body about in chapter 14.

Therefore, working with that premise that the "Christian God" is the one as described in the Christian Holy Bible, then the concept of my question remains - as His words are recorded therein. But yes, if just a loose term of "god" was used to describe some principal deity, then the question can't really be posed, as such a being is without a defined identity that we can discuss.

Thanks for replying.

The question can be posed, if understood that the Christian faith is a spectrum of perspective about God underneath the Christian tradition. Christianity includes much more than just what you find in American evangelical protestantism, for instance. So it seems to me, asking about the "Christian God", is really just asking, "from a Christian perspective of God", what do you think. That answer can cover a spectrum of perspectives.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think of prayer as a child speaking to a parent. Just talk and say what is on your mind. Some people pray by repeating a written prayer 10 or 20 or 30 times. My opinion is the God gets tired of hearing the same thing repeated so many times. He would rather just hear what is on your mind.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

But the Christian perspective of God varies widely too.

True. But we were discussing statements YHWH makes Himself rather than Christians.

My perspective of God, through a Christian lens, allows for all other perspectives of God as well. This is supported by Paul's injunction to the Christian church to recognize that one person's ideas of God, versus another person's ideas of God, are only important to the one's believing them.

I think that might be pushing Paul's words a little too liberally. But surely you balance Paul's writings with the rest of the Bible, right?

because there is no one single perception of God by all Christians, for one thing.

True.

To some God cares about worshipping on the right days.

Well, according to Scripture YHWH does care about specific days - Feast days and Sabbaths are holy for a reason. To take Paul's words in Colossians out of the context of the rest of the Bible will cause a misunderstanding on this matter.

So would I be right in thinking that you are for God and for Scripture (at least Paul from what you have quoted) unless things get too specific such as the commandments and details? I might be wrong in my estimation, so forgive me if that's the case.

I kinda get what you're saying, I think. That basically Christianity is all over the place with what it says about God. I can see totally see that. It seems like the various types of confusion always root back to people not taking ALL of the Bible (Old and New Testament) literally or invalidating certain parts, at their own whim.

But some matters are not Christian or Jewish in nature, such as the statement that YHWH makes many times in the Bible - that He is the only God and there is no other. It was that question I posed, out of interest, to someone who recognised YHWH along with other deities as I thought it was an interesting dichotomy,

 

[VoidCat]

But some matters are not Christian or Jewish in nature, such as the statement that YHWH makes many times in the Bible - that He is the only God and there is no other. It was that question I posed, out of interest, to someone who recognised YHWH along with other deities as I thought it was an interesting dichotomy,

Have you ever heard of Trinitarian Wicca or of syncretic religions where someone mixes paganism with Christianity? Technically the resulting religion would be neither pagan nor Christian but a blend of the two...Just thought that might be something you'd find interesting to research.Now. I don't have an opinion on the Christian God. I don't know if he exists or not. He has no place in my pagan beliefs. However if he does exist and I were to worship him in my opinion I wouldn't see him as just the Christian God. I would see him as one of many interpetions of the Abrahamic God. I wouldn't believe in everything the scripture has regarding him as that is written by man.I know other gods exists-theyve answered my prayers and helped me before. I dont plan on worshiping a monotheistic God. So my logic is I were to pray to him in the off chance he exists itd be rude. I don't plan on worshiping him. Therefore it's rude for me to pray to him.

 

[VoidCat]

I sum up my opinion thus: When you make a request you are praying to a god lowercase g. When you align yourself with what is and improve yourself rather than make requests this is praying to God.

What follows is some explanation.
Mystically speaking it would be redundant if you prayed to yours and then to God, since God means 'Theos' or the essence of divinity. Within monotheism there are people who think there are facets of God and people who don't. It is the kind of thing you have to decide. Strict monotheism considers your request to be ignorant of the nature of God and denies other gods exist, because it is strict.

What I think personally is that requests to gods make more sense than requests to God, but who really are you requesting from if God is in fact omnipresent and omnipotent?

The original idea of God has been enriched with philosophical debate and formalism. In the West it has been determined by this method that a monotheistic God must be theoretically beyond time, beyond the physical world, encompassing all, all existing within God with God not limited to that. It is spoken like this: "God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and transcendent." For that reason many in India associate the western idea of God with their Brahman concept; but they have variations in which there are gods within Brahman but also simultaneously part of Brahman. Not many strict monotheists exist compared to partial monotheists. I think if God listens to prayers it must be considered partial monotheism. A strict monotheism would require that prayer be more of a meditation and aligning ones self with God rather than trying to change God.


Would God listen? I think God would just know what you said without having to listen, as well as what you were thinking and might have thought if any of a number of things happened. Would God be moved or changed in any way by it? That is uncertain. Some people say yes. Other people say no. The prayer could change something in the past as easily as changing something in the present or future. It would be all the same to God. You could pray never to have existed. You may as well pray for the poor dinosaurs who died millions of years ago as to pray for something alive today. It is like we are all God's dream or something like that, such is the implication of "Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and transcendent."

In my opinion, no. What would matter was how you treated your friends not what you said to God.

Chickens are somewhat less sentient than us, so we eat chickens. God is infinitely more sentient than we are. How important can we be to an infinitely intelligent being? Would you want a mean ol' stupid rooster wandering around as you slept? How would an infinitely sentient being care for your presence, then? Where I think humanity interacts with God is in the moral choices we make, and that is probably the only way to do so being otherwise irrelevant to God's existence, to God's thought.

These are some good thoughts I'll have to think about thanks.

 

[Tzephanyahu]

I don't plan on worshiping him. Therefore it's rude for me to pray to him.

Yes, that was my point. If you believed in Him a little, would you think He is just factually inaccurate or a liar... Just a strange question. But I see it's not really worth pursuing further as you say...

I wouldn't believe in everything the scripture has regarding him as that is written by man.

So, with that understanding, it's hard to talk about Scripture - What YHWH says about Himself and the Creation for example. In fact, with that premise, we really wouldn't know anything about Him without the Scriptures.

Anyway, thanks for replying and weighing up my strange question.