POST ONE OF TWO
Hi Katzpur :
Just a quick thought.
You and I once obliquely touched on this subject in a discussion as to what these words “...upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it...” (mtt 16:18) meant to the individuals who recorded them.
We did not go into detail before but, at least from a historical perspective, much depended upon what the words “church” and “gates of hell” meant and how they were used historically by the individuals writing this record and the individuals who read the records.
For example, what did εκκλησια (or church) mean in this specific context? If Clement was correct in teaching that "...the church not only exists now, but has been in existence from the beginning.“ (Clement 14:3) then the church may be seen as a part of God’s plan which pre-existed with spirits of mankind. If correct, this specific context of the εκκλησια/church as a gathering of those who have accepted an invitation to adopt moral principles designed to prepare mankind for a social heaven is more far reaching than merely seeing a church as a building, or a mere congregation of individual Christians.
A) Εκκλησια / Ekklesia as an invitation to Gather around a covenant or principle
The word most often used for “church” in the New Testament Greek is εκκλησια. It is a compound word made up of the word used for a “calling”, an “invitation”, a “naming”. εκ + καλεω = εκκλησια. “εκ” is “out” and καλεωis to invite or call. Together it is to “invite, or call out” and, by implication, gather into a group of those so invited. In this context, it was used to describe any assembly of people. (e.g. a town meeting) whether a religious group or not. The same principle applies to the word Synagogue (syn = "together" and "gogue = go with/come" as a compound word meaning a gathering).
Thus, εκκλησια, in its’ most broadest religious historical contextual sense, may represent those individuals who have accepted the invitation God extends to all individuals toward faith and moral/social progression. If clement was correct, that the word applies to an eternal process of gathering, then it makes perfect sense that, in the narrower Christian context it represents those who have accepted the specific invitation from God. This also allows the Εκκλησια, to fit more smoothly into other ancient contexts and applications and into parables where individuals are called or invited to events which they either accept or decline to attend. It fits into the many parables having to do with the “process” of planting and gathering “good fruit” who respond to the invitation towards moral/social “improvement”. This is simply a base model for me and I am very willing and wanting to modify it as I find better data.
B) "Αδες” (Hades) and “שאול“ (sheol) and “Hell” in early Judeo-Christian context.
Some confusion is caused by translation since, in describing the “intermediate” world between mortality and Final Judgment writers and translators of various early texts use differing words in their translations, to refer to this single place SHEOL - HADES - SPIRIT WORLD, PARADISE, PURGATORY, (…sometimes "HELL" is used). Occasionally, it is only the historical context that saves us from confusion in terms.
For example, the translator of Ezra uses the greek term “hades” in his text when Ezra remarks to Jesus in a vision, regarding the end of his (the prophet Ezras’) life : “Bewail me, all holy and just ones, because I have entered the bowl of Hades.” (Apoc of Ez 7:1). The glorified Jesus reminds Ezra that he himself had been there as well : “Hear, Ezra, my beloved one. I, being immortal, received a cross, I tasted vinegar and gall, I was set down in a grave. And I raised up my elect ones and I summoned up Adam from Hades" (The Greek Apocalypse of Ezra 6:26 & 7:1-4). The translator of the Hebrew New Testament uses שאול / Sheol in their translation of “hell” in Matthew 16:18 but Greek Matt 16:18 uses αδου / Hades.
C) Combining the concept of hades/Sheol as it relates to the invitation or gathering of an Ekklesia (group) in an ancient model.
If there is an eternal gathering of individuals and if the gates of Sheol / Hades / spirit world / paradise / etc will not stop this from happening, then, in this context, it makes perfect sense that Jesus, in Matthew 16:18 does mean that not even death will prevent this process of gathering from continuing. Certainly this fits into the early Christian tradition described in Christian decensus literature where the gospel is taught to those in hades/sheol.
ALL WHO DIE GO TO THIS SPIRIT WORLD (THE PLACE IN THE MIDDLE)
For example, in early Christian tradition, all who die, whether they have heard of the Gospel of Jesus or not, go into the Grave / Sheol / Hades / Paradise / etc.
In this ancient Christian theology, all souls, including the Patriarchs and prophets, upon dying, have their spirits placed into this spirit world. Quote : “do you not know that all those who (spring) from Adam and Eve die? And not one of the prophets escaped death and not one of those who reign has been immortal. Not one of the forefathers has escaped the mystery of death. All have died, all have departed into Hades, all have been gathered by the sickle of Death.” (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 8:9; 7)
“ And Death said, “Hear, righteous Abraham, for seven ages I ravage the world and I lead everyone down into Hades – kings and rulers, rich and poor, slaves and free I send into the depth of Hades (T of Abr (rec A) 19:7) .
“For Death deceived Abraham. And he kissed his hand and immediately his soul cleaved to the hand of Death....13...the undefiled voice of the God and Father came speaking thus : “Take, then my friend Abraham into Paradise, where there are the tents of my righteous ones and (where) the mansions of my old ones, Isaac and jacob, are in his bosom... (TESTAMENT OF ABRAHAM (recension A) 20:9,13-15) Though he uses the word, "paradise", it is this place in the middle that he is actually referring to.
There are multiple early descriptions of the entry of Christ into Hades, to set the individuals there free. For examples,
"Bartholomew said to him: 'Lord, when you went to be hanged on the cross, I followed you at a distance and saw how you were hanged on the cross and how the angels descended from heaven and worshiped you. And when darkness came, I looked and saw that you had vanished from the cross; only I heard your voice in the underworld, and suddenly a great wailing and gnashing of teeth arose. Tell me, Lord, where you went from the cross.' And Jesus answered: Blessed are you Bartholomew, my beloved, because you saw this mystery. And now I will tell you everything you ask me. 'When I vanished from the cross, I went to the underworld to bring up Adam and all the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The archangel Michael had asked me to do this. When I descended with my angels to the underworld ,in order to dash in pieces the iron bars and shatter the portals of the underworld, Hades said to the devil: ' I perceive that God has come down upon the earth.' And the angels cried to the mighty ones: 'Open your gates, you princes, for the King of glory has come down to the underworld.'....Beelzebub replied [to Hades - ed]: 'Why are you afraid? It is a prophet, and you think it is God. The prophet has made himself like God. We will take him and bring him to those who think to ascend into Heaven.' And Hades said: 'Which of the prophets is it? Tell me. Is it Enoch, the scribe of righteousness?.... But when the Devil perceived that the Word of the Father had come down upon the earth, he said: 'Do not fear, Hades; we will make fast the gates and make strong our bars. ...And thereupon they dashed in pieces the gates of brass and I shattered the iron bars....And I brought out all the patriarchs and came again to the cross. And Bartholomew said to him: 'Lord, I saw you again hanging on the cross and all the dead arising and worshiping you. Tell me, Lord, who was he whom the angels carried in their arms, that exceedingly large man? And what did you say to him that he groaned so deeply? It was Adam, the first created, for whose sake I came down from heaven upon the earth. And I said to him: 'I was hanged upon the cross for your sake and for the sake of your children.' And when he heard that, he groaned and said: 'So you were pleased to do, O Lord.' The Gospel of Bartholomew
This is the same tradition reflected in early Synagogal prayers and the Syballine oracles.
'Then the heavenly one will give souls and breath and voice to the dead and bones fastened with all kinds of joinings....flesh and sinews and veins and skin about the flesh, and the former hairs. Bodies of humans, made solid in heavenly manner, breathing and set in motion, will be raised on a single day. Then Uriel, the great angel, will break the gigantic bolts, of unyielding and unbreakable steel, of the gates of Hades, not forged of metal; he will throw them wide open and will lead all the mournful forms to judgment,.... Christ, imperishable himself, will come in glory on a cloud toward the imperishable one with the blameless angels. He will sit on the right of the Great One, judging at the tribunal the life of pious men and the way of impious men. Moses, the great friend of the Most High, also will come, having put on flesh. Great Abraham himself will come, Isaac and Jacob, Joshua, Daniel and Elijah, Habbakuk and Jonah, and those whom the Hebrews killed. Sibylline Oracles book two vs 221-230 & 241-248;
