Question about the LDS prophet

[madhatter85]

so you're saying, they are all "clairvoyant"?

Do you know each of us humans, as a *spiritual entity* was Blessed by GOD/Jesus Christ with this & other... abilities.

Does this make more sense?

your taking the word seer and runnign with it then changing it to clairvoyant... this is erronius.

They are given divine inspiration when it is needed for the church to continue to function and operate properly.

 

[Katzpur]

so you're saying, they are all "clairvoyant"?

No, that's not what we're saying. They are men called to speak on behalf of God, to guide Christ's Church, to make sure that we understand what God expects of us. This is exactly what the ancient prophets were called to do. Since you're a Christian, you surely believe in Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, and all of the New Testament prophets and apostles. Jesus Christ established His Church on a foundation of prophets and apostles, and Paul said that this organization was to remain in place until we all came into the unity of the faith.

Do you know each of us humans, as a *spiritual entity* was Blessed by GOD/Jesus Christ with this & other... abilities.

I'm very much aware that we are all blessed with abilities, many of them of a spiritual nature. That doesn't mean that each of us has been called to be a prophet and to stand as head of Christ's Church as Peter did after the Savior's death.

 

[Sk8Joyful]

Since you're a Christian,
you surely believe in Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, and all of the New Testament prophets and apostles.

Jesus Christ established His Church on a foundation of prophets and apostles,
and Paul said that this organization was to remain in place until we all came into the unity of the faith.

GOD/Jesus Christ also said the "His Church" = ALL his Faithful children.

(not "one select chosen" group of humans).

No, that's not what we're saying.
They are men called to speak on behalf of God, to guide Christ's Church, to make sure that we understand what God expects of us.

This is exactly what the ancient prophets were called to do.

The Bible via the *Holy Spirit* is quite sufficient to help (us Christians, as His church) understand how GOD/Jesus Christ invites us living... as His followers...
GOD said:
1. Thou shall LOVE... the Lord thy GOD with ALL thy soul, ALL thy mind, & ALL thy heart.
&
2. Thou shall LOVE... thy neighbor as thyself (provided we LOVE ourself as GOD loves us)

On these 2 hang :yes: ALL the laws & the prophets.

I'm very much aware that we are all blessed with abilities, many of them of a spiritual nature.

ALL of our helpful abilities are *spiritual*,
for we are not humans having Spiritual-experiences.
Nay, we are GOD-created Spiritual-entities :yes: having mortal experiences.

Big difference here, can you see this?

That doesn't mean that each of us has been called to be a prophet
and to stand as head of Christ's Church as Peter did after the Savior's death.

That "calling" is a Mormon-belief. A belief not shared by Christians.

Would you like to add something else?

 

[Katzpur]

GOD/Jesus Christ also said the "His Church" = ALL his Faithful children.

(not "one select chosen" group of humans).

Well, as one of His faithful children to another, it's nice having you as a part of the family.

The Bible via the *Holy Spirit* is quite sufficient to help (us Christians, as His church) understand how GOD/Jesus Christ invites us living... as His followers...
GOD said:
1. Thou shall LOVE... the Lord thy GOD with ALL thy soul, ALL thy mind, & ALL thy heart.
&
2. Thou shall LOVE... thy neighbor as thyself (provided we LOVE ourself as GOD loves us)

Yes, the Bible does a pretty good job of telling us to love one another. So does the Book of Mormon and so do God's living prophets.

ALL of our helpful abilities are *spiritual*,
for we are not humans having Spiritual-experiences.
Nay, we are GOD-created Spiritual-entities :yes: having mortal experiences.

Big difference here, can you see this?

Sure. I'm sorry you didn't like my original wording. I agree with what you've said.

That "calling" is a Mormon-belief. A belief not shared by Christians.

Well, I'd beg to differ with you on that. You see, I am first and foremost a Christian, and I can back up my statement through an appeal to the Bible. Secondly, this is not a debate thread, so you may wish to remove your last comment as it's against the rules of the forum to offer an alternative opinion on a DIR forum.

Would you like to add something else?

No, I don't think so. I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction, though. If you really want to debate any of these points, may I suggest you find a debate forum on which to do so. If you'd prefer a one-on-one debate, I'm always interested in those.

 

[Sk8Joyful]

In Ephesians 4:11-14, Paul said (regarding Christ):
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists;
and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith,

and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness,
whereby they lie in wait to deceive…"

Define "the unity of the faith", please. What Faith?, do you think this speaks of here.

Without living prophets, even those who are completely sincere in wanting to follow Jesus Christ don't know exactly what to believe.
They are, as Paul said they'd be, like "children, tossed about by every wind of doctrine."
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that can be used to justify the belief that
a living prophet is no longer needed Christ's Church -- exactly as Peter led it in the beginning.

(GOD/Jesus Christ never said "Unless you live... your life, by the words of a Mormon-prophet,
you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." :no

I underlined 2-places, wherein CHILDren are mentioned.

I did so, because GOD/Jesus Christ counsels us, in Matthew 18:3 "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and
become like *LITTLE* children :yes:, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

GOD/Jesus Christ judges this "conversion" as most-important, for
each Individual soul's ability to live in HEAVEN, with GOD/Jesus Christ.

Annie

 

[Sola'lor]

Someone's been using the deep drilling equipment.

Define "the unity of the faith", please. What Faith?, do you think this speaks of here.

I define it to mean that all people who will ever believe in Jesus Christ will believe in Him. There will be only one church, as Jesus Christ will personally reign upon the Earth.

(GOD/Jesus Christ never said "Unless you live... your life, by the words of a Mormon-prophet,
you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." :no

You're right. But we must live by His words to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And how do we know those words? Prophets.

I underlined 2-places, wherein CHILDren are mentioned.

I did so, because GOD/Jesus Christ counsels us, in Matthew 18:3 "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and
become like *LITTLE* children :yes:, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Yep.

GOD/Jesus Christ judges this "conversion" as most-important, for
each Individual soul's ability to live in HEAVEN, with GOD/Jesus Christ.

Yep.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm very much aware that we are all blessed with abilities, many of them of a spiritual nature. That doesn't mean that each of us has been called to be a prophet and to stand as head of Christ's Church as Peter did after the Savior's death.

It is important to note that the gift of Prophecy is not limited to those who are called to be Prophets, Seers and Revelators. They have the specific responsibility and stewardship over the church, but many others have the gift of Prophecy.

One that comes to mind: Eliza Snow almost certainly had the Spirit of Prophecy.

 

[Sola'lor]

It is important to note that the gift of Prophecy is not limited to those who are called to be Prophets, Seers and Revelators. They have the specific responsibility and stewardship over the church, but many others have the gift of Prophecy.

One that comes to mind: Eliza Snow almost certainly had the Spirit of Prophecy.

Yes definately. I think too many LDS forget this and go around condemning those who use their gift.

 

[SoyLeche]

Yes definately. I think too many LDS forget this and go around condemning those who use their gift.

It should also be noted that anyone who uses their "gift" to command others that are not under their stewardship, or to say "the church needs to do such and such" are pretty much dead wrong.

 

[Sola'lor]

It should also be noted that anyone who uses their "gift" to command others that are not under their stewardship, or to say "the church needs to do such and such" are pretty much dead wrong.

Yes I definatly agree.

I was talking more about those phsycics that help police solve crimes.

 

[Starfish]

I was mistaken. My point was that the first counselors generally are the next in line (usually being the Senior Apostle), but Hinckley was First Counselor when Hunter was called as President. Hunter wasn't in the FIrst Presidency at the time.

It's interesting to read this from a future perspective, now that we have a new prophet. You may have already cleared this all up, but it still seemed a little fuzzy, so I'd like to add my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore this.

The next prophet always has been the senior apostle, regardless of age. The Prophet chooses his two counselors from among the apostles, not necessarily choosing the new senior apostle. (I have heard that there has been an instance where one of the counselors did not come from the quorum of apostles.) If the new senior apostle is chosen to be a counselor to the Prophet, the next apostle in seniority becomes the "Acting Senior Apostle" in the Quorum.

When the Prophet dies, the First Presidency is dissolved and the two counselors return to the Quorum in their order of seniority, giving us 14 apostles. Then the senior apostle, not the former 1st Counselor, is named as the new prophet.

 

[Starfish]

so, Mormons actually believe that God speaks directly to hinckley (hinkley....whatever) and tells him who will be apostles?

Where do they speak?

Another old post I'd like to respond to.

God speaks to all who will listen. Not just to prophets. The difference is that prophets receive instruction and direction from God in running God's church. The Church is the stewardship of the Prophet.

We all can receive direction from God for our own stewardships. As a mother, I can pray and receive answers concerning myself, my children and my family. If I hold a job in the Church, say as a youth leader, then I am entitled to receive counsel from God concerning that program and how I can better serve the youth.

But I cannot receive direction from God in how my ward (congregation) should be run because that is not my stewardship. I am not the bishop. I can suggest things to my bishop and he can take my suggestion to the Lord for consideration and receive the direction whether to implement my suggestion, or not.

Yes, our prophet talks to God and God talks to him. But it's really no different than when I talk to God about my personal life, or my family. I have received direct help concerning my kids, from God. I have received inspiration for the Sunday School lessons that I teach. Just as the Prophet receives inspiration concerning the Church.

 

[Sola'lor]

Well THe apostles and Prophet have Seen Jesus Christ. That's why they are called Special Witnesses of Christ.

 

[Starfish]

Well THe apostles and Prophet have Seen Jesus Christ. That's why they are called Special Witnesses of Christ.

I'm not sure that's true for all of them. I don't think one has to see Christ to be a special witness. But I could be wrong.

 

[Sola'lor]

I'm not sure that's true for all of them. I don't think one has to see Christ to be a special witness. But I could be wrong.

I think they all have. But that's just my opinion. I imagine such an experience would be so sacred they would ever really talk about it. It would probably like how we don't discuss experiences of the temple, but like a million times more sacred.

 

[Starfish]

I think they all have. But that's just my opinion. I imagine such an experience would be so sacred they would ever really talk about it. It would probably like how we don't discuss experiences of the temple, but like a million times more sacred.

Well, maybe. I still kind of doubt it. I will never forget Elder McConkie's last talk in Conference when he hinted at it. That was one powerful talk. I would guess it has happened to a few, but rarely and not as a rule.