Question about the natural world for atheists

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have a question for atheists, this is a genuine question, not looking to argue or anything like that. Just want to pick some of your brains and see your mindset on it. So, if god or a creator doesn't exist, and it doesn't dictate the way our life will go, how do you guys (atheists) cope with the tragedies and chaos of life? I assume if you're atheists, you're well aware that this natural world is a dog eat dog world, it is filled with chaos, violence, and mercilessness. You could be walking and drop dead, you could be exercising to better yourself (you need to exercise so that you can be healthy, defend yourself, defend your country, etc) and you can drop dead, any little mistake can cost you your life, literally the smallest margin of mistakes, and lights out. So how do you brave these facts and continue living, somewhat normally? I ask this because I developed panic disorder since a young child. I can't say why for certain, but I believe it has something to do with negative people when I was a kid putting me down and telling me there is no god or purpose and only the abyss and I remember since a child that always put intense fear into me and I still suffer to this day from debilitating panic attacks, I've had to be sedated on antidepressants for years now and have almost died multiple times from panic attacks when I attempted to get off and years later the panic attacks come back with a vengeance. So I guess my question is, how do you be brave and live life like a champ, if you have no crutch to stand on knowing that you could die in your sleep and there would be nothing to save you, or you could be enjoying a workout then next minute you're dead and later in the day you're cut open on a metal slab? Or that you can lose your minds and just start panicking and then you die? What gives you the courage to continue living? Do you just trust that you are a product of natural selection and it's not in your genes to panic? Do you just trust in your own body to keep itself upright and living no matter the stress? Thanks in return for your answers that hopefully help me and save my life for I have not been doing too well lately.

It's hard to see why you ask this question of only atheists. All of those things can (and do) happen to theists and deists as well.

It is a great difficulty of human life that we understand that we will die one day -- and we never know when that will be. (There may be other animals who are aware that they will not live forever, but we've no way to know that for certain.) The good news is that more than 92% of us will die of natural causes. Sometimes, there is unpleasantness in natural death, but today there are many ways in which natural passing can be made more comfortable and less frightening.

Many religious people believe that their existence doesn't end with their death -- that there is something more, perhaps involving some immaterial aspect of the self, sometimes going so far as believing in the resurrection of their actual body. Atheists don't have that to hope for. But atheists, in general, recognize that "death" is the same as "not being alive," and when they realize that for most of the 14 billion years that our universe has existed, they did not -- and it caused them nothing unpleasant at all. It was, literally, nothing. As Epicurus said,

"Why should I fear death?​

If I am, then death is not.​

If Death is, then I am not.​

Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"​

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have a question for atheists, this is a genuine question, not looking to argue or anything like that. Just want to pick some of your brains and see your mindset on it. So, if god or a creator doesn't exist, and it doesn't dictate the way our life will go, how do you guys (atheists) cope with the tragedies and chaos of life? I assume if you're atheists, you're well aware that this natural world is a dog eat dog world, it is filled with chaos, violence, and mercilessness. You could be walking and drop dead, you could be exercising to better yourself (you need to exercise so that you can be healthy, defend yourself, defend your country, etc) and you can drop dead, any little mistake can cost you your life, literally the smallest margin of mistakes, and lights out. So how do you brave these facts and continue living, somewhat normally?

I'm not really sure how any of this changes if there is a god. It's still true.

I ask this because I developed panic disorder since a young child. I can't say why for certain, but I believe it has something to do with negative people when I was a kid putting me down and telling me there is no god or purpose and only the abyss and I remember since a child that always put intense fear into me and I still suffer to this day from debilitating panic attacks, I've had to be sedated on antidepressants for years now and have almost died multiple times from panic attacks when I attempted to get off and years later the panic attacks come back with a vengeance. So I guess my question is, how do you be brave and live life like a champ, if you have no crutch to stand on knowing that you could die in your sleep and there would be nothing to save you, or you could be enjoying a workout then next minute you're dead and later in the day you're cut open on a metal slab? Or that you can lose your minds and just start panicking and then you die? What gives you the courage to continue living? Do you just trust that you are a product of natural selection and it's not in your genes to panic? Do you just trust in your own body to keep itself upright and living no matter the stress? Thanks in return for your answers that hopefully help me and save my life for I have not been doing too well lately.

As someone who also suffers from panic disorder, I feel your pain.
People generally don't die from having panic attacks - it just feels like it. So maybe that can help you rest a little easier.

Also, I would suggest looking into cognitive behavioural therapy. It worked wonders for me and helped me function again.

Good luck to you.

 

[F1fan]

I have a question for atheists, this is a genuine question, not looking to argue or anything like that. Just want to pick some of your brains and see your mindset on it. So, if god or a creator doesn't exist, and it doesn't dictate the way our life will go, how do you guys (atheists) cope with the tragedies and chaos of life? I assume if you're atheists, you're well aware that this natural world is a dog eat dog world, it is filled with chaos, violence, and mercilessness.

You nailed it here, atheists understand the universe owes us nothing and we have no misconcepions that a God is out there giving out miracles if you pray hard enough. We cope like anyone else does. Atheists will use distraction and illusions to help cope just as theists do. Humans are not all the same, some are born more resilient to hardship than otehrs, so no one is going to react the same as another. Each have their own burden in dealing with tragedy and loss. Most people will carry on with work and life duties to help bring stability. There is loads of psycholical work done on how humans cope with loss. It will impact atheists as hard as theists, and all humans cope in similar ways. Theists do have an advantage in their religious beliefs and community, but that still doesn't take the trauma away.

You could be walking and drop dead, you could be exercising to better yourself (you need to exercise so that you can be healthy, defend yourself, defend your country, etc) and you can drop dead, any little mistake can cost you your life, literally the smallest margin of mistakes, and lights out. So how do you brave these facts and continue living, somewhat normally?

As a competitive cyclist I have been hit by cars four times, one head on. I had the skill to not panic and avoid serious injuries. I never suffered any broken bones. A few friends were hit this summer and ended up being hospitalized. It's part of the lottery of life. I had more anxiety after being hit head on, but I have adjusted how I watch cars.

I ask this because I developed panic disorder since a young child. I can't say why for certain, but I believe it has something to do with negative people when I was a kid putting me down and telling me there is no god or purpose and only the abyss and I remember since a child that always put intense fear into me and I still suffer to this day from debilitating panic attacks, I've had to be sedated on antidepressants for years now and have almost died multiple times from panic attacks when I attempted to get off and years later the panic attacks come back with a vengeance. So I guess my question is, how do you be brave and live life like a champ, if you have no crutch to stand on knowing that you could die in your sleep and there would be nothing to save you, or you could be enjoying a workout then next minute you're dead and later in the day you're cut open on a metal slab?

I was shy and depressed as a kid and young adult. At some point in life I decided I was done being depressed, and became more cynical and care-free, and this morphed into being more extroverted. One thing I started doing was joking with total strangers in public. Like if I see a child crying in a grocery store line I might say "Me too, kid". I started feeling more connected with people by saying funny things, or making comments about their appearance like "Cool hair." if I see a girl with some unusual design.

As for your situation none of us can really give advice. You have your issues with your challenges. It's not always a matter of choice. I was depressed and I felt like I had no control over it. So I stopped fighting it. If I was going to be depressed I was just going to mire in it until I got tired of being depressed. It really did come down to just being done with it, but I had to do my time first.

Or that you can lose your minds and just start panicking and then you die? What gives you the courage to continue living?

**** that I have to do tomorrow. It may not hurt to rwad Viktor Frankl's Man's Search For Meaning. If you want to get some perspective read that. It's hard to have self-pity when you read about those who survived Nazi concentration camps. For me my depression was being too self-absorbed and thinking the universe owes me something. Bike racing helped me learn to earn self-respect and setting goals worthy of the self.

Do you just trust that you are a product of natural selection and it's not in your genes to panic?

It can be both. A therapist can help sort these issues out. Some folks have disorders that require medication to resolve. This can include chemical imbalances in the blood which affects the brain and mood.

Do you just trust in your own body to keep itself upright and living no matter the stress? Thanks in return for your answers that hopefully help me and save my life for I have not been doing too well lately.

No, we have to monitor our bodies, eat right, stay hydrated, and design a routine for optimal health. The brain and body won't function well if a person has poor diet habits. Exercise helps bring a natural hormonal balance, and can be euphoric.

 

[Heyo]

There is violence of the first kind in nature, you can see it in history? Groups of people killing other groups of people simply for their being and this isn't a one off occasion.

Yep. And did you know that we live in the least violent time ever? We haven't overcome violence, yet, but we are getting there.

I also see that there's many benefits to religion.

Agreed. Some people feel comfort in religion. Atheists don't. We see it as illusionary comfort.

As for the weather, you can predict it but its never certain, you see what I mean? All we can do is predict but we can never say with certainty which sucks. I guess my issue here is, if god doesn't exist, and this world is just a battle for survival, natural selection, evolution, then your fate is literally just what you're born with. You're either born to win and survive and reproduce, or you're behind more evolved people at which point what reason even is there for you to continue living if you're so far behind?

You are complaining about chaos and determinism at the same time. That's irrational. Either you are a fatalist, Insh Allah, and expect nothing from the world but what your god has already decided for you, or you discard determinism and accept that your actions can influence the future.

 

[bobhikes]

I have a question for atheists, this is a genuine question, not looking to argue or anything like that. Just want to pick some of your brains and see your mindset on it. So, if god or a creator doesn't exist, and it doesn't dictate the way our life will go, how do you guys (atheists) cope with the tragedies and chaos of life? I assume if you're atheists, you're well aware that this natural world is a dog eat dog world, it is filled with chaos, violence, and mercilessness. You could be walking and drop dead, you could be exercising to better yourself (you need to exercise so that you can be healthy, defend yourself, defend your country, etc) and you can drop dead, any little mistake can cost you your life, literally the smallest margin of mistakes, and lights out. So how do you brave these facts and continue living, somewhat normally? I ask this because I developed panic disorder since a young child. I can't say why for certain, but I believe it has something to do with negative people when I was a kid putting me down and telling me there is no god or purpose and only the abyss and I remember since a child that always put intense fear into me and I still suffer to this day from debilitating panic attacks, I've had to be sedated on antidepressants for years now and have almost died multiple times from panic attacks when I attempted to get off and years later the panic attacks come back with a vengeance. So I guess my question is, how do you be brave and live life like a champ, if you have no crutch to stand on knowing that you could die in your sleep and there would be nothing to save you, or you could be enjoying a workout then next minute you're dead and later in the day you're cut open on a metal slab? Or that you can lose your minds and just start panicking and then you die? What gives you the courage to continue living? Do you just trust that you are a product of natural selection and it's not in your genes to panic? Do you just trust in your own body to keep itself upright and living no matter the stress? Thanks in return for your answers that hopefully help me and save my life for I have not been doing too well lately.

For me, I did seek therapy for a period of time which made me realize to cherish life and have patience.

When I debate religion I always point out that religion done right is a therapy for its followers and without it the world would need a lot more therapists.

 

[seekingreality]

It is also my experience that god-belief (not quite what I personally call religiosity) is hardly of any help in dealing with existential angst and fear of mortality.

If anything, the opposite happens.

It is of help, I know because I have asked people who like you say, aren't even that religious (don't go to church every Sunday, don't follow gods rules, don't worry too much about being watched by god etc) but they believe heavily that there's a god and so in a way they have a sort of safe guard. Because for example, you could die right now while you're reading this, and what is to stop you from being afraid of that if you have nothing to hope for after, basically with atheism I think you have to be extremely brave to live like that because your life factually isn't that important and can easily be lost within seconds, when I asked my friend who loves god if he would be afraid if he were to die right now he said "no, I'd go to heaven and be with my heavenly father" so essentially people who have so much faith in a creator don't fear death the same because they don't think there's an end or any permanent negative aspect to death. If you're atheist that's not the case.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is of help, I know because I have asked people who like you say, aren't even that religious (don't go to church every Sunday, don't follow gods rules, don't worry too much about being watched by god etc) but they believe heavily that there's a god and so in a way they have a sort of safe guard. Because for example, you could die right now while you're reading this, and what is to stop you from being afraid of that if you have nothing to hope for after, basically with atheism I think you have to be extremely brave to live like that because your life factually isn't that important and can easily be lost within seconds, when I asked my friend who loves god if he would be afraid if he were to die right now he said "no, I'd go to heaven and be with my heavenly father" so essentially people who have so much faith in a creator don't fear death the same because they don't think there's an end or any permanent negative aspect to death. If you're atheist that's not the case.

That is not really how I see it.

 

[seekingreality]

That is not really how I see it.

Ok, what are you referring to and how do you see it?

 

[LuisDantas]

First of all, I insist on differentiating skepticism (a healthy attitude) from atheism (an aesthetical inclination) and areligiosity (something that it probably best correlated with expectations of theism than with atheism).

It is of help, I know because I have asked people who like you say, aren't even that religious (don't go to church every Sunday, don't follow gods rules, don't worry too much about being watched by god etc)

I don't follow god's rules because I have good reason to doubt they even exist. If they did, I would have to accept responsibility over how to interpret, apply and make exceptions to them.

Obedience is not religiosity and can never be even a passable substitute.

So I don't know that those people that you speak of (or me) are particularly non-religious. The opposite may well be true.

but they believe heavily that there's a god and so in a way they have a sort of safe guard.

They do?

I am not seeing it, but apparently there are many who agree with you there.

Because for example, you could die right now while you're reading this, and what is to stop you from being afraid of that if you have nothing to hope for after,

I don't think fear of death is nearly as frequent among us atheists as it is among Abrahamists.

basically with atheism I think you have to be extremely brave to live like that because your life factually isn't that important and can easily be lost within seconds,

I am well aware of my mortality, but I honestly don't see the need for any bravery there.

when I asked my friend who loves god if he would be afraid if he were to die right now he said "no, I'd go to heaven and be with my heavenly father" so essentially people who have so much faith in a creator don't fear death the same because they don't think there's an end or any permanent negative aspect to death.

Perhaps. My personal experience suggests the entirely opposite scenario, though.

If you're atheist that's not the case.

Indeed. It is so much simpler and so much easier.

 

[seekingreality]

First of all, I insist on differentiating skepticism (a healthy attitude) from atheism (an aesthetical inclination) and areligiosity (something that it probably best correlated with expectations of theism than with atheism).



I don't follow god's rules because I have good reason to doubt they even exist. If they did, I would have to accept responsibility over how to interpret, apply and make exceptions to them.

Obedience is not religiosity and can never be even a passable substitute.

So I don't know that those people that you speak of (or me) are particularly non-religious. The opposite may well be true.




They do?

I am not seeing it, but apparently there are many who agree with you there.




I don't think fear of death is nearly as frequent among us atheists as it is among Abrahamists.




I am well aware of my mortality, but I honestly don't see the need for any bravery there.




Perhaps. My personal experience suggests the entirely opposite scenario, though.



Indeed. It is so much simpler and so much easier.

Alright, it seems that we go about very different ways in how our mindsets are constructed, and that is to be expected. I'm not gonna ask you to go in depth because obviously you could probably write multiple paragraphs explaining the way you view it. There also seems to be a lot of different anecdotal evidence between us which is also to be expected because we are most likely not from the same place and every area has its own subset of culture and how they view things. I guess to try and explain to you the way I view it, it's like this, there are thousands of ways for us to die, and significantly less ways for us to live, especially when you take into account the necessities of daily life in order to be a well off human being. So, to me, and to atleast the people that live around me at the moment, they also seems to inherently know that so the only way they can live peacefully and with hope is by believing that there is a god out there that has everything planned out and everything has a reason for happening and therefore there's nothing for them to stress over because it's the way things are meant to be. The atheists I've had experience with deny any creator or any purpose to life beyond the ones we create for ourselves, and, that is GREAT, IF you are someone that's genetically capable of being able to take life's burdens on to your own hands and gladly try and be in control of your fate in all areas. Alot of people where my family is from, is not able to do this. The shoulder for them to lean on when things get tough, is god. So that's the way I'm viewing it. I know that atheists see it completely different, or atleast I think do, they believe in accountability, learning, taking control of situations, and pretty much being their own master. I find true atheists VERY brave because like I said, our mortality is our biggest driver, it's what motivates us to pursue things in life and as such, it can be either a great driver or a horrible demotivator depending on who is on the end of the line.

 

[Frank Buffalo]

Atheism for me is a freedom from a variety of religious assumptions about the meaning of life in order to be able to see life as it is and deal with it directly. The comfort is in this freedom and the feeling that all kinds of beliefs can be questioned.

 

[Trysdar]

I'm an atheist.
Even if a god exists, it doesn't mean that it comes with afterlife.
There are religions where there are gods, but no particular belief in afterlife.

It's a particular feature of the christianity and islam and some others that a god offers afterlife.

Even in the oldest parts of the Bible, it is not clear that the god offers afterlife for individuals. What it offers though is the collective perpetuation of Israel, as a people and a nation.

So I was a Muslim, and of course, strongly believed in afterlife.
Then I realized that no god exists, unfortunately, so I had to drop my belief in afterlife as well, and it was not with a light heart.
For a time I hoped that physics, through some particular and speculative concepts from the theory of information, could offer reincarnation, but well, reincarnation is simply not scalable.

The only kind of "afterlife" that I believe in now is simply:
* first, my personal impact on this world, that at my own individual level, will contribute to shape the world to come (ok, this is a religious expression from the Bible)
* second, teaching my descendants the importance of ethics and leading a good life.
This will have an unvoidable end in any case when Earth will become uninhabitable (climate change, asteroid fall wiping out mammals, Sun becoming hotter and hotter).