Question about the Resurrection of the Dead

[David_2010]

This is something I've kind of been thinking about recently. In Judaism, from my understanding, it's believed that when the Messiah comes, the dead will rise, but, is this a belief all Jews share (from Orthodox to Conservative to Renewal, Reconstructionist, Reform, etc), and, also, does the event take place on this plane of existence or somewhere else?.

It's just one of the reasons I'm asking is, according to scientists, in about 5 billion years time, the sun will expand, and go into its death cycle, basically, destroying everything in this solar system (I'm only paraphrasing here, anyone who knows more about it, please correct me on what I got wrong), would the resurrection, in Jewish beliefs anyway, happen after this event in some other universe (I think, there is a belief in other universes, both before this one, and parallel to this one, in Jewish beliefs?). Is the event supposed to happen before this, and when the sun goes, we go as well, or is there some other meaning?.

Also, how literal is it supposed to be, like have any of the Jewish Mystics given mystical interpretations of what it means?.

If there are any of books (or even good sites) on this subject, please feel free to recommend any.

Thanks, again, for any help you can provide .

 

[TheKnight]

There are verses which say that the sun will not be destroyed. Also, science cannot predict the future. Anything can happen. It is possible that within the next 5 billion years (if we increase at our current rate of technological advance) man will have discovered a way to "keep the sun going". By then we'll probably be able to make things with the power output of the sun that fit into little compact devices like cell phones.

As far as resurrection, you'll get different opinions. From a Hasidic perspective, it's supposed to happen on Earth at some point after the start of the Messianic age. It doesn't necessarily have to be a miracle. It could be something as simple as man discovering a way to bring back the dead (or reverse the death process for both the dead and the living).

 

[Zardoz]

The Resurrection of the Dead will indeed happen during the Davidic Messianic Age.

One does not have to worry that we might run out of time because of the sun. There is, according to some traditions, a deadline that will bring this age whether we deserve it or not, ready or not. And no, it's not 2012 or a deadline within any of our lifetimes. We can speed up this new era, but it must come regardless. It is forbidden to speculate too much on this deadline, but it's not measured in thousands of years from now much less billions.

 

[sunsplash]

Is the resurrection spiritual or physical? I've heard that some Catholic Christians are against cremation because they believe in a similar, literal/physical concept, and that your body needs to be preserved (even if decayed) to be brought back for the soul to re-enter (or something like that). What is the Jewish belief on burial and does it have anything to do with the resurrection?

(I hope it's okay that I've asked a question here!)

 

[Zardoz]

Is the resurrection spiritual or physical? I've heard that some Catholic Christians are against cremation because they believe in a similar, literal/physical concept, and that your body needs to be preserved (even if decayed) to be brought back for the soul to re-enter (or something like that). What is the Jewish belief on burial and does it have anything to do with the resurrection?

(I hope it's okay that I've asked a question here!)

Questions are welcome!

Resurrection usually means physical although there is a spiritual afterlife too.

Jews are against cremation as a whole. Personally, I would think that even if one is reduced to dust or ash that would be enough. G-d told us as much, that we are but dust and to dust we will return.

 

[Levite]

This is something I've kind of been thinking about recently. In Judaism, from my understanding, it's believed that when the Messiah comes, the dead will rise, but, is this a belief all Jews share (from Orthodox to Conservative to Renewal, Reconstructionist, Reform, etc), and, also, does the event take place on this plane of existence or somewhere else?.

It's just one of the reasons I'm asking is, according to scientists, in about 5 billion years time, the sun will expand, and go into its death cycle, basically, destroying everything in this solar system (I'm only paraphrasing here, anyone who knows more about it, please correct me on what I got wrong), would the resurrection, in Jewish beliefs anyway, happen after this event in some other universe (I think, there is a belief in other universes, both before this one, and parallel to this one, in Jewish beliefs?). Is the event supposed to happen before this, and when the sun goes, we go as well, or is there some other meaning?.

Also, how literal is it supposed to be, like have any of the Jewish Mystics given mystical interpretations of what it means?.

If there are any of books (or even good sites) on this subject, please feel free to recommend any.

Thanks, again, for any help you can provide.

A literal resurrection of the dead was indeed a cardinal belief of the Rabbis of the Talmud. However, after the Talmudic period, as philosophy and theology continued to evolve, a literal resurrection was often seen as theologically confining. The Rambam (Moses Maimonides, 12th Century) initially made no mention of a physical resurrection in Moreh Nevukhim (Guide for the Perplexed), but he was compelled to support literal resurrection in a later essay because at that time, it was considered inviolable doctrine, and it was clear some considered him heretical. But he essentially takes physical resurrection as a throwaway: in his essay on the resurrection, he declares that all will be resurrected in order to demonstrate God's miraculous power, then after living a normal lifespan, all will then die again for good, and only their souls will live on, without form or body. It seems clear he was uncomfortable with the idea.

Later philosophers often continued in that trend. Today, outside the Ultra-Orthodox world, few Jews believe in a purely physical resurrection of the dead: nearly all believe that techiyat hametim ("the dead coming alive") actually refers to the immortality of the soul. Some believe it is literal, but will take place on another plane of being. The association with Moshiach coming is variously thought to mean that perhaps the souls of the dead will be able to manifest in the physical world, or perhaps this world and the World To Come will commingle, or maybe the living will be able to commune with the souls of the dead, or perhaps in the Messianic age, people will no longer fear death, understanding that they will truly live eternally with God and their loved ones and their people...not to mention various other hypotheses. And of course, there are those, especially among the leftmost wing of the Reform movement, and those movements to the left of it, who simply do not believe in techiyat hametim at all, in any way, shape, or form.

Personally, I tend to think that it is somewhat unhelpful to one's daily life-- spiritual or mundane-- to attempt to reason out precisely how prophecies, miracles, and mystical doctrines could successfully interact with science. I am not trying to diminish the truth and importance of either the mystical or the scientific-- I'm just saying that they don't always play well together. My advice: don't get too hung up on trying to get everything to meld perfectly. If it was all linear and logical, it wouldn't be called "faith."

Also personally, it is my belief that we all have eternality of the soul, and when Moshiach comes, not only will we all realize and accept that fact, but human beings will learn to raise their spiritual awareness to the degree that our souls will be able to seek out and commune with the souls of others we have known, wherever they may be. I think that is what is meant by techiyat hametim.

 

[Levite]

Is the resurrection spiritual or physical? I've heard that some Catholic Christians are against cremation because they believe in a similar, literal/physical concept, and that your body needs to be preserved (even if decayed) to be brought back for the soul to re-enter (or something like that). What is the Jewish belief on burial and does it have anything to do with the resurrection?

(I hope it's okay that I've asked a question here!)

The prohibition against cremation was originally Talmudic, precisely because they believed in a physical resurrection, and thus required an intact body.

But over time, as fewer Jews believed in a purely physical resurrection, much less that God would require an intact body, the proscription of cremation became ascribed more and more to respect for the body as God's handiwork, which is only loaned to us and not given-- and thus we must treat it with respect. We return it to the earth because, at least poetically if not literally, from earth we came, and so it is fitting that to earth we return. Also, though it is not a Jewish law or even a custom of long standing, today most culturally aware Jews would shun cremation because of the negative associations given it by the Shoah (Holocaust).

 

[sunsplash]

Also, though it is not a Jewish law or even a custom of long standing, today most culturally aware Jews would shun cremation because of the negative associations given it by the Shoah (Holocaust).

I hadn't thought of that...that definitely makes sense. Cremation gives me the heebie jeebies anyway.

As for treating the body with respect, what are the thoughts on piercings, tattoos, cosmetic surgeries...permanent alterations to the body that aren't necessary? Is this condemned, acceptable self-expression, or is there not really a religious opinion and more of a private matter?

(sorry for hijacking and going a bit off topic)

 

[Levite]

As for treating the body with respect, what are the thoughts on piercings, tattoos, cosmetic surgeries...permanent alterations to the body that aren't necessary? Is this condemned, acceptable self-expression, or is there not really a religious opinion and more of a private matter?

No, there are definitely laws, customs, and traditions concerning these things.

So far, the Orthodox have maintained a very strict stance on all these things: tattoos, scarification, branding, and other permanent markings are forbidden; cosmetic surgery is forbidden except when necessary for health and welfare (e.g., weight loss surgery in morbidly obese patients, reconstructive surgery after mastectomy due to breast cancer, facial reconstruction to remove scarring or burn marks, etc.); piercings in men are forbidden altogether, and women are permitted only earrings (and usally only one set of holes)-- although among some Mizrahi (Middle Eastern/North African), Beta Yisrael (Ethiopian), and Indian Jewish communities, women are permitted nose rings and more than one set of earring holes, but all only for the purposes of ornamentation, and supported by prooftexts from the Bible.

In Conservative Judaism, scarification and branding are still prohibited, but some authorities permit tattooing, so long as the tattoos do not contain the names or images of pagan gods, symbology of other religions, or any of the Hebrew names for God; unnecessary cosmetic surgery is still prohibited, but more lattitude is given for cosmetic surgery to aid in psychological well-being (e.g., rhinoplasty or ear tucks for a clinically shy and socially anxious young man with an excessively large nose or tremendous jug ears, in order to help him feel better about himself and get past his issues; or moderate breast implants for a young woman who feels painful awkwardness or shame about being extremely underdeveoped-- like to the point of having almost no breasts at all; etc.); multiple ear piercings are permitted for both sexes, nose rings if small and unobtrusively ornamental, and many authorities permit navel piercings if similar, but other facial piercings, tongue piercings, nipple or genital piercings, etc., are all prohibited, as are any excessive amount of piercings.

I don't know what the authorities in the Reform movement say. My presumption is that, since the Reform movement basically believes that it is up to any individual Jew to interpret the law and tradition for themselves, the movement might have some sort of vague recommendation not to be excessive in body modification, and to avoid anything dangerous or obscene, but would not actually come right out and forbid anything specifically. I would presume a similar principle would hold true to those small movements to the left of Reform, also.

 

[David_2010]

Thanks to everyone who posted, I really appreciate all the replies.

It could be something as simple as man discovering a way to bring back the dead (or reverse the death process for both the dead and the living).

That's actually quite interesting to think about.

A literal resurrection of the dead was indeed a cardinal belief of the Rabbis of the Talmud. However, after the Talmudic period, as philosophy and theology continued to evolve, a literal resurrection was often seen as theologically confining. The Rambam (Moses Maimonides, 12th Century) initially made no mention of a physical resurrection in Moreh Nevukhim (Guide for the Perplexed), but he was compelled to support literal resurrection in a later essay because at that time, it was considered inviolable doctrine, and it was clear some considered him heretical. But he essentially takes physical resurrection as a throwaway: in his essay on the resurrection, he declares that all will be resurrected in order to demonstrate God's miraculous power, then after living a normal lifespan, all will then die again for good, and only their souls will live on, without form or body. It seems clear he was uncomfortable with the idea.

Later philosophers often continued in that trend. Today, outside the Ultra-Orthodox world, few Jews believe in a purely physical resurrection of the dead: nearly all believe that techiyat hametim ("the dead coming alive") actually refers to the immortality of the soul. Some believe it is literal, but will take place on another plane of being. The association with Moshiach coming is variously thought to mean that perhaps the souls of the dead will be able to manifest in the physical world, or perhaps this world and the World To Come will commingle, or maybe the living will be able to commune with the souls of the dead, or perhaps in the Messianic age, people will no longer fear death, understanding that they will truly live eternally with God and their loved ones and their people...not to mention various other hypotheses. And of course, there are those, especially among the leftmost wing of the Reform movement, and those movements to the left of it, who simply do not believe in techiyat hametim at all, in any way, shape, or form.

Personally, I tend to think that it is somewhat unhelpful to one's daily life-- spiritual or mundane-- to attempt to reason out precisely how prophecies, miracles, and mystical doctrines could successfully interact with science. I am not trying to diminish the truth and importance of either the mystical or the scientific-- I'm just saying that they don't always play well together. My advice: don't get too hung up on trying to get everything to meld perfectly. If it was all linear and logical, it wouldn't be called "faith."

Also personally, it is my belief that we all have eternality of the soul, and when Moshiach comes, not only will we all realize and accept that fact, but human beings will learn to raise their spiritual awareness to the degree that our souls will be able to seek out and commune with the souls of others we have known, wherever they may be. I think that is what is meant by techiyat hametim.

Thanks for all the information, interestingly enough I came across a book today in Waterstones (one of the major bookstores over here) called 'The Wisdom of Maimonides: The Life and Writings of the Jewish Sage' which seemed a really great guide to Maimonides, I'll, hopefully, be getting it next week (sorry for getting OT as well).

Again, thanks for all those different views, that's one of the things I'm really liking about Judaism, there's a lot of differing opinions on various matters, and there seems to be an emphasis on making you think things through.

 

[Levite]

Thanks for all the information, interestingly enough I came across a book today in Waterstones (one of the major bookstores over here) called 'The Wisdom of Maimonides: The Life and Writings of the Jewish Sage' which seemed a really great guide to Maimonides, I'll, hopefully, be getting it next week (sorry for getting OT as well).

Don't mean to threadjack, but...I haven't read this particular book on Rambam yet, though I haven't heard anything about it, either-- negative or positive.

In addition, if you're interested in the Rambam, you might like:

A Maimonides Reader, Isidore Twersky
Introduction to the Code of Maimonides, Isidore Twersky. These two are classics of introductory Rambam reading by one of the monumental scholars of the 20th Century.

Maimonides: A Biography, Abraham Joshua Heschel. This is a lyrical, sensitive portrayal of the Rambam, by one of the greatest minds of 20th Century Judaism. I think Heschel saw some of himself in the Rambam, and he writes with according sympathy. A lovely little book.

Maimonides: Torah and Philosophic Quest, by David Hartman. A fascinating work, by one of the great progressive Modern Orthodox thinkers. Hartman attempts to reconcile Rambam's Torah scholarship and his neo-Aristotelian philosophical work, and his analyses as he does so are quite penetrating.

Perspectives on Maimonides: Philosophical and Historical Studies, Joel Kraemer (ed.). Not easy reading, but a very interesting and broad-scope collection of scholars writing on Maimonides, from a number of very different viewpoints, on various topics. Worth having, if you're interested in Rambam.

Also, if you can find Eliyahu Touger's translation of Rambam's Shemonah Perakim ("Eight Chapters,") which is Rambam's philosophical introduction to Pirke Avot, this is essentially Rambam giving you the short form on Rambam's philosophy. Very worth reading.

 

[David_2010]

Don't mean to threadjack, but...I haven't read this particular book on Rambam yet, though I haven't heard anything about it, either-- negative or positive.

In addition, if you're interested in the Rambam, you might like:

A Maimonides Reader, Isidore Twersky
Introduction to the Code of Maimonides, Isidore Twersky. These two are classics of introductory Rambam reading by one of the monumental scholars of the 20th Century.

Maimonides: A Biography, Abraham Joshua Heschel. This is a lyrical, sensitive portrayal of the Rambam, by one of the greatest minds of 20th Century Judaism. I think Heschel saw some of himself in the Rambam, and he writes with according sympathy. A lovely little book.

Maimonides: Torah and Philosophic Quest, by David Hartman. A fascinating work, by one of the great progressive Modern Orthodox thinkers. Hartman attempts to reconcile Rambam's Torah scholarship and his neo-Aristotelian philosophical work, and his analyses as he does so are quite penetrating.

Perspectives on Maimonides: Philosophical and Historical Studies, Joel Kraemer (ed.). Not easy reading, but a very interesting and broad-scope collection of scholars writing on Maimonides, from a number of very different viewpoints, on various topics. Worth having, if you're interested in Rambam.

Also, if you can find Eliyahu Touger's translation of Rambam's Shemonah Perakim ("Eight Chapters,") which is Rambam's philosophical introduction to Pirke Avot, this is essentially Rambam giving you the short form on Rambam's philosophy. Very worth reading.

Thanks for all those recommendations, they all look interesting, especially the Hartman one, from the Amazon description anyway.

 

[Dena]

Maimonides: A Biography, Abraham Joshua Heschel. This is a lyrical, sensitive portrayal of the Rambam, by one of the greatest minds of 20th Century Judaism. I think Heschel saw some of himself in the Rambam, and he writes with according sympathy. A lovely little book.

I'm going to add this to my reading list. I might add some of those others as well.