Question for Atheists

[actsfourthirty]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

 

[Quetzal]

I will take hilariously loaded questions for 400, Alex.

 

[Polymath257]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

I disagree that the person doesn't change. in fact, I am certainly NOT the same person I was when I was 15 years old. or 30 years old. or 45 years old. I have learned and grown and changed my views. I *do* have memories about those younger versions, but I, like most people have changed over time.

And that is where your leading question goes wrong. The answer that you are NOT looking for is that the person is dependent on the body: that it grows and develops in the way the body does and is even dependent on how the brain works.

So, yes, at one time I did not exist. in the future I will 'not exist' again. The logical conclusion is that *I* am a product of my body, software running on the hardware of the brain. And, while software isn't 'physical', it is does supervene on the physical: knowing the physical tells you everything there is to know about the person, if you know it in enough detail.

 

[actsfourthirty]

I will take hilariously loaded questions for 400, Alex.

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

 

[actsfourthirty]

I disagree that the person doesn't change. in fact, I am certainly NOT the same person I was when I was 15 years old. or 30 years old. or 45 years old. I have learned and grown and changed my views. I *do* have memories about those younger versions, but I, like most people have changed over time.

And that is where your leading question goes wrong. The answer that you are NOT looking for is that the person is dependent on the body: that it grows and develops in the way the body does and is even dependent on how the brain works.

So, yes, at one time I did not exist. in the future I will 'not exist' again. The logical conclusion is that *I* am a product of my body, software running on the hardware of the brain. And, while software isn't 'physical', it is does supervene on the physical: knowing the physical tells you everything there is to know about the person, if you know it in enough detail.

thanks

I did not say traits personality or leaning
I said person
You are the same person
Same name
Same intellect and will

 

[SalixIncendium]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

I'm going to identify as an atheist for the purpose of this thread, then I'll go back to being a transtheist.

Vedanta breaks human down to three bodies:

• The gross body (it doesn't mean icky, though some are): Your physical form, your body...all of your physical organs...the organs of the senses
• The subtle body: Thoughts, feelings, emotions, memory, personality
• The causal body: Essentially karma, both good and bad, and the sum of one's experiences (some debate memory, or at least parts of it, can be carried in the causal body.)

All three of these are ever changing, and the only one that I believe carries through the process of rebirth in samsara is the causal body (though some will claim that parts or all of the subtle body is carried as well).

The only thing that is unchanging is the Atman, one's consciousness...pure awareness with no other qualities or attributes...the witness, and this is eternal. One can be perceive everything in the three bodies, but the Atman is the perceiver...it cannot be perceived. It is the only thing that is immutable.

So getting back to your question, it would appear what you are calling "the body" is what Vedanta calls the gross body, and what you are calling the person, Vedanta calls the subtle body. Both are ever changing and both have a beginning (birth) and end (death). The causal body survives death and remains in samsara until the karmic account is cleared, and the Atman is immortal.

So per Vedanta and in my experience, your premise that the person does not change is faulty.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What you are referring to is called the soul.

The soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.

The soul is associated with the body and it directs the body and brain and mind. It is the soul that directs human faculties.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual form made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world.

 

[Polymath257]

thanks

I did not say traits personality or leaning
I said person
You are the same person
Same name
Same intellect and will

But that is simply because we put the same label on the me now and the me then. Like the Ship of Thesseus, I am not the same person as I was then. Except for a few common memories, I have little in common with the person at 10 years old.

Not at ALL the same intellect. Not at ALL the same will. Not at ALL the same, except for a name assigned to a changing person.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, yes, at one time I did not exist. in the future I will 'not exist' again.

True, before you were conceived "you" did not exist, because the soul which is you comes into being at conception.
But soul is immortal, so it cannot die, which means you will continue to exist forever. Only your body dies.

The logical conclusion is that *I* am a product of my body, software running on the hardware of the brain. And, while software isn't 'physical', it is does supervene on the physical: knowing the physical tells you everything there is to know about the person, if you know it in enough detail.

Since it is the soul that animates and directs your physical body the logical conclusion is that you are not a product of your physical body, you are a soul that operates out of your body while you are IN a body in this life. But when your body dies you will continue to live, in a spiritual body in the spiritual world.

 

[exchemist]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

thanks

Your first statement is wrong. Science "proves" no such thing.

And what is this "scientific law of change"? I've never heard of this before. What do you mean by it and can you provide any reference to a description of it?

In science, you can't just make stuff up, you see.

 

[Polymath257]

True, before you were conceived "you" did not exist, because the soul which is you comes into being at conception.

Really? What is it specifically about conception that initiates the creation of a soul? What is the process? Is it a product of the depolarization of the cell membrane? if so, how?

But soul is immortal, so it cannot die, which means you will continue to exist forever. Only your body dies.

That is a common claim, but I have yet to see evidence of a soul at all, let alone any that such a thing would be immortal.

Since it is the soul that animates and directs your physical body the logical conclusion is that you are not a product of your physical body, you are a soul that operates out of your body while you are IN a body in this life. But when your body dies you will continue to live, in a spiritual body in the spiritual world.

I disagree that there is a 'soul'. What animates my body is the chemical properties of oxygen and the various carbon compounds that make it up. When those are deprived of the tissues, death occurs.

 

[Polymath257]

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

That is very far from being the only logical conclusion. In fact, it is probably the least likely among many.

 

[SalixIncendium]

thanks

only cos you can’t answer

the only logical conclusion is you were created therefore there is a creator

What does the word "logical" mean to you?

 

[Heyo]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

Nope. "Person" is not a scientific term, it is a legal construct.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

I have no idea what you mean by that....

According to the scientific law of change,

According to what-law now? Did you just make this up?

man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

This sounds like pure word salad.

And no, I am not at all the same person I was 10 years ago.
I'm still "me" off course. So is my body. I didn't switch bodies.
My body changed over time, yes. So did my personality.

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

yes. More specifically, my parents having sex.

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical

Off course it is. My "person" is the neural network in my brain. That is very physical.

, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!

I don't know about that, but in any case, it doesn't follow from your false premise.

A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

Doesn't follow either. Not even if I grant your demonstrably false premise.

What is the origin of your person

My brain, shaped by my environment and my experiences.

, it is not physical

yes it is

so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist,

Yes, before I was born, I did not exist. Neither did my brain.

now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

That my parents had sex and 9 months later, my mother gave birth to me.

thanks

No problem.

 

[McBell]

Science proves man is a hybrid, body and person.

What does this even mean?

According to the scientific law of change, man is a hybrid body and person, according to the law of change the body changes all through life, but the person does not change, you are always the same person, so man must be a hybrid!

You will need to quote this law.
Hopefully you will have explained what you mean by "hybrid, body and person" as requested above.

Your body is physical and sense perceptible, or known by the senses.
What is the origin of your body, it is according to science the result of natural conception.

OK.With you so far.
I hope...

Your person is not physical, not sense perceptible, therefore not physical, so there must be some non-physical reality, or spiritual reality!
A supernatural reality, superior to physical nature, with intellect and will.

Now will you have to define what you mean by "person".
Please keep in mind that I am not a choir member.

What is the origin of your person, it is not physical so it does not result from physical natural conception, at one time you did not exist, now you do exist, the only logical conclusion is????

If by "person" you mean conscience and subconscience then you are flat out wrong as both are indeed physical.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

thanks

I did not say traits personality or leaning
I said person
You are the same person
Same name
Same intellect and will

By that criteria, the same goes for the body.

Same fingerprints.
Same DNA.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Since it is the soul that animates and directs your physical body the logical conclusion is that you are not a product of your physical body, you are a soul that operates out of your body while you are IN a body in this life. But when your body dies you will continue to live, in a spiritual body in the spiritual world.

"logical" conclusions are quite worthless when they are drawn from illogical premises.

 

[Trailblazer]

Really? What is it specifically about conception that initiates the creation of a soul? What is the process? Is it a product of the depolarization of the cell membrane? if so, how?

That is how God set it up. The soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem.

That is a common claim, but I have yet to see evidence of a soul at all, let alone any that such a thing would be immortal.

There is no physical evidence because the soul is not physical. It can only be seen through its signs and works.

I disagree that there is a 'soul'. What animates my body is the chemical properties of oxygen and the various carbon compounds that make it up. When those are deprived of the tissues, death occurs.

You can believe that if you want to, but you will find out differently after you die and are not dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

"logical" conclusions are quite worthless when they are drawn from illogical premises.

That is very true.